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bluerules009

This is going to kill online universities and liberal arts colleges

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-might-put-colleges-on-the-hook-for-student-loans-11552406110?mod=hp_lead_pos6

WASHINGTON—The White House is weighing a measure that would require colleges and universities to take a financial stake in their students’ ability to repay government loans, an effort that could squeeze loan availability to students and reduce defaults.

For several months, Trump administration officials have been discussing enacting such a mechanism or making a push for one in Congress as part of a broader effort to combat rising college costs.

In the administration’s budget proposal released Monday, officials made brief mention of a “request to create an educational finance system that requires postsecondary institutions that accept taxpayer funds to have skin in the game through a student loan risk-sharing program.”

Such a proposal could be included in a coming executive order addressing higher education, several officials said. A draft of the order isn’t final and the specifics of exactly how a skin-in-the-game provision would work haven’t been laid out. It also isn’t clear whether the White House will back an administration proposal or urge Congress to take one up.

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Also in his budget:

-eliminate the public service loan forgiveness program

-eliminate subsidized student loans

-cuts department of education budget by 10%

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Translation:  prospective college students will pay for the wall.

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On 3/12/2019 at 6:09 PM, RamSack said:

Translation:  prospective college students will pay for their college education the wall.

fify

Prospective college students aren't paying any taxes so they're not paying for shyt

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The total school loan debt has got to be pretty high and I suspect there are a lot of graduates that tell the government to phuck off. 

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If it keeps universities from enrolling so many people in worthless liberal arts education and forces them to actually educate students in valuable skills it can't but help this country.

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35 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

If it keeps universities from enrolling so many people in worthless liberal arts education and forces them to actually educate students in valuable skills it can't but help this country.

Why are "liberal arts" degrees worthless in your estimation?

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2 hours ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Also in his budget:

-eliminate the public service loan forgiveness program

-eliminate subsidized student loans

-cuts department of education budget by 10%

Subsidized student loans are part of the problem.  It increases tuition price by artificially inflating demand.

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1 hour ago, bluerules009 said:

If it keeps universities from enrolling so many people in worthless liberal arts education and forces them to actually educate students in valuable skills it can't but help this country.

The universities have more or less become education factories and I use the term education loosely. There are so many majors that include ridiculous classes that provide poor preparation for the working world. The system is set up to benefit high salaried professors and administrators instead of students who are left with a huge debt to pay off these guys who actually do very little teaching. 

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2 hours ago, retrofade said:

Why are "liberal arts" degrees worthless in your estimation?

They don't educate the student with the basics of what is needed to understand the world with a liberal arts degree.

No liberal arts subject contains anything I can't learn on my own from a book.  Plus I don't need any basics to learn those topics.

You can't learn biology or any science solely from a book.  You need a basic education in math Physics and chemistry to begin to understand the subject.     You can't be an engineer without a basic education, you can't be anything useful without a basic education.

If your education doesn't include significant chemistry and math, at least 2 years, you didn't get an education. You need at least enough chemistry to have taken some organic chemistry.  You need a year of physics.   You don't have the tools to educate yourself further which is supposed to be the basis of an undergraduate education.  Any science major has the tools to learn any other subject, so as an employer i can give that employee any assignment with the knowledge they can handle it.   Anyone like you with an online degree I have no confidence you are any better qualified than your average high school graduate.  Certainly I can't assign you anything challenging and have any confidence you can do the job, you don't have the basics of an education.

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18 hours ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Also in his budget:

-eliminate the public service loan forgiveness program

-eliminate subsidized student loans

-cuts department of education budget by 10%

I see no issue with this

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20 hours ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Also in his budget:

-eliminate the public service loan forgiveness program

-eliminate subsidized student loans

-cuts department of education budget by 10%

If in fact the first two are eliminated it would be the best possible change in the educational loan system in the history of the accursed school loan plan. I am all for it. It would knock out for profit on line universities and require financial responsibility on the part of students. Currently the system teaches the young and stupid to take out as much credit as they can and find ways never to pay it back. In fact it encourages financial irresponsibility.

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18 hours ago, retrofade said:

Why are "liberal arts" degrees worthless in your estimation?

Because he doesn't have one.

I majored in history as an undergrad and bidness as a grad student and frankly learned more as an undergrad. For one thing, I learned to write, something far too many college grads can't do for shit anymore. It's been too long for me to remember exactly but I must have taken about 10 history courses and never had a single non-essay test. I also had to write at least one term paper in each of those classes and I took a number of poli sci and psych courses which similarly required writing proficiency.

I won't say business courses are "worthless" to use BR's word but his use of that term vis-a-vis liberal arts courses is consistent with his post error rate generally, which is ~90%.

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17 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

They don't educate the student with the basics of what is needed to understand the world with a liberal arts degree.

No liberal arts subject contains anything I can't learn on my own from a book.  Plus I don't need any basics to learn those topics.

You can't learn biology or any science solely from a book.  You need a basic education in math Physics and chemistry to begin to understand the subject.     You can't be an engineer without a basic education, you can't be anything useful without a basic education.

If your education doesn't include significant chemistry and math, at least 2 years, you didn't get an education. You need at least enough chemistry to have taken some organic chemistry.  You need a year of physics.   You don't have the tools to educate yourself further which is supposed to be the basis of an undergraduate education.  Any science major has the tools to learn any other subject, so as an employer i can give that employee any assignment with the knowledge they can handle it.   Anyone like you with an online degree I have no confidence you are any better qualified than your average high school graduate.  Certainly I can't assign you anything challenging and have any confidence you can do the job, you don't have the basics of an education.

This is amongst the most dull-witted and in sapient statements I have ever read or heard. The great majority of inventors, original thinkers and national leaders before the early 20th century had a liberal arts education or no university education at all. Tesla, Edison, Bell, Lock, Kepler, Franklin and thousands of others are in this category. A technical or scientific education was viewed as job training not actual education at the time. While I believe that technical and scientific education is in fact of value, and a compliment to skilled labor today it is not what the writer of this post thinks it is. How appropriate that a graduate of a University which made it's way in it's home state by teaching locals how to drive a truck holds such views. By the way the OP stated that "You can't learn biology or any science solely from a book.", however this is exactly what Darwin did.

In case you think I am going too far back for your comprehension, they call that history, let me add a few names from recent history. 

The Wright Brothers, Larry Ellison, Paul Allen, Mike Dell, Steve Jobs. None of these had a science education or in fact any kind of degree. Do you see the light as yet?

 

 . . (1452 – 1519), mathematician, engineer, anatomist, geologist, botanist, inventor, artist.
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18 hours ago, CPslograd said:

Subsidized student loans are part of the problem.  It increases tuition price by artificially inflating demand.

Demand was there. They artificially inflated supply.

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55 minutes ago, 1066 said:

Currently the system teaches the young and stupid to take out as much credit as they can and find ways never to pay it back. In fact it encourages financial irresponsibility.

How so?  Un-Subsidized are still available at 6+%, Subsidized loans just offer better interest rates at about 5%.

Do you all think student loans should be based on a credit score?  Only those with wealthy parents qualify?  Or loan eligibility should be based on some other factors such as major or the potential to make more money in the future?  I think any scenario where you didn't guarantee to everyone would end up being pretty discriminatory.

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8 minutes ago, bsu_alum9 said:

How so?  Un-Subsidized are still available at 6+%, Subsidized loans just offer better interest rates at about 5%.

Do you all think student loans should be based on a credit score?  Only those with wealthy parents qualify?  Or loan eligibility should be based on some other factors such as major or the potential to make more money in the future?  I think any scenario where you didn't guarantee to everyone would end up being pretty discriminatory.

A story from my early youth may help to explain. After I took my BA from SDSU and before I took my MA from U. of Cincinnati I worked as a collector for Sallie May for 2 plus years. I had one debtor who had a bureau listing all his debt. He had 11 separate collage loans, none of which he had paid on and one loan on his 1 year old BMW 7 series car. How he got that loan I can not imagine. His bureau showed he made 13 on time payments on the BMW but not ONE payment on any of his college loans. When I called him to attempt to set up a payment schedule he told me he did not intend to pay anything on his college loans and hung up the phone. I of course sent his account to legal and they took legal action and won. However despite the legal decision he never paid a cent on his school loans (at least he did not do so by the time I left Sallie Mae about a year and a half later.) I ran into hundreds of similar but less extreme cases where the debtor did not make any payments on his loans or made payments for a few months and then stopped paying and never resumed doing so.

As to your opinion of credit scores allow me to add that a parents credit score has nothing to do with the debtors credit score and is not considered by Sallie Mae or any other lender..

 

 

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18 minutes ago, 1066 said:

A story from my early youth may help to explain. After I took my BA from SDSU and before I took my MA from U. of Cincinnati I worked as a collector for Sallie May for 2 plus years. I had one debtor who had a bureau listing all his debt. He had 11 separate collage loans, none of which he had paid on and one loan on his 1 year old BMW 7 series car. How he got that loan I can not imagine. His bureau showed he made 13 on time payments on the BMW but not ONE payment on any of his college loans. When I called him to attempt to set up a payment schedule he told me he did not intend to pay anything on his college loans and hung up the phone. I of course sent his account to legal and they took legal action and won. However despite the legal decision he never paid a cent on his school loans (at least he did not do so by the time I left Sallie Mae about a year and a half later.) I ran into hundreds of similar but less extreme cases where the debtor did not make any payments on his loans or made payments for a few months and then stopped paying and never resumed doing so.

As to your opinion of credit scores allow me to add that a parents credit score has nothing to do with the debtors credit score and is not considered by Sallie Mae or any other lender..

I agree that some people are irresponsible- that's why the market has set loan interest rates on student loans so high. There's also nothing to repossess when there's a default - like there is with the car.

But State and Federal spending has been reducing higher education funding and in doing so put the cost in the hands of the student and less on the society.  I don't see how increasing the student's interest rate and giving the federal government more profit (student loans are one of the only profitable parts of the federal government) is going to help the situation.

It will just lead to more personal debt and more defaults.

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I agree with this that online schools  and so called colleges based out of strip malls should bear some of the financial risk for peddling loans to people whose degrees will never generate an income to pay it back. 

We also should not be letting students to get $60,000 in debt to get degrees in Oppressed Women's Studies or other useless Liberal Arts degrees. 

I have nothing against Liberal Arts, its just that their degrees are rarely worth $60,000. 

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