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The Gun Debate....let's do this!

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There have been endless debates about the verbiage of the 2nd Amendment and what was meant when it was written and adopted.  Pro 2nd amendment advocates default to the "right to bear arms" as being a catch-all phrase meaning any weapons that can be defined as "arms".  Con 2nd amendment advocates stress the "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" qualifier. 

Facts:

The second amendment: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Passed by Congress September 25, 1789. Ratified December 15, 1791.

United States in 1791:

640px-United_States_1790-05-1791-03.png

Population: 3,929,214*    - https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/histstats-colonial-1970.pdf  pg. 24  *- number is disputed in first census, was expected to be higher.

Black: 757,000  ibid, pg. 38

White: 3,172,000 ibid, pg. 38

Male: 1,617,000 ibid, pg. 38

Female: 1,556,000 ibid, pg. 38

So how many people owned guns?  Children? 0, at least until over 9 or so and probably only male kids, Women?  0 or very small percent. Black people? 0 or very small percent

Adding figures of those unlikely to be gun owners, that equals 58.86% of people who wouldn't own a gun.  And that other 41.14% is if every male owned one, which isn't realistic. 

How do figures translate today?  Far more guns, fewer owners (as a percentage of population), diversity in ownership via gender and race.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/americas-complex-relationship-with-guns/

Screen_Shot_2015-10-02_at_10.58.53_AM.0.

So 4.43% of the world's population owns 42% of the civilian owned guns.  270,480,000 - but that accounts for the entire population of the US.

PSDT_2017.06.22.guns-01-11.pngPSDT_2017.06.22.guns-01-10.pngPSDT_2017.06.22.guns-02-05.png

 

 

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US Population estimate April 18,2017(date of surveys above):  324,726,368 - https://www.census.gov/popclock/

Number of kids in America 2017: 73,655,378*   *-https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group#detailed/1/any/false/871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133,38,35/62,63,64,6,4693/419,420

Incarcerated individuals 2017 - 2,114,000*   * https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2017.html -excludes Youth offenders, and estimates 400k not convicted in local jails.

Eligible number of gun owners in America - 248,956,990*   *-estimate, includes mental institution patients (no accurate figures available to remove them) and excludes some child ownership of firearms available in 30 states (no figures available).

270,480,000 guns are owned by US residents

30% own a firearm - 74,687,097 people.

32% of gun owners own one firearm - 23,899,871.04

66% own more than one gun - 49,293,484.02 

37% own 2-5 guns - 27,634,225.89 

29% own 5 or more guns - 21,659,258.13 

8% of gun owners own 40% of all guns - 5,974,967.76 own 106,000,000 guns. - https://news.northeastern.edu/2016/09/26/study-70m-more-firearms-added-to-us-gun-stock-over-past-20-years/

With this knowledge in mind, do Americans really value the 2nd Amendment as much as the vocal minority who own guns?

Should a minority have such control over an issue?

Should the NRA's activism of putting their minority membership interests above the rest of the country be curtailed or limited?

Significant percentages of gun owners agree with some gun policy changes, especially in obtaining firearms.  Will they push for these changes or is it lip service?

What should be done to address the issues around gun violence - especially suicide and violence involving firearms?

Fear appears to be a driving force in gun ownership.  What can be done to address this?

What possible reason does a person have for hoarding firearms, and is it an indication of mental illness? 

Discuss!

Yes!  Let THIS be the thread where it happens!  Where a consensus of ideas solves the issue once and for all! 

 

 

*This is a Thoughts and Prayers free zone!  None are necessary to initiate debate!

 

 

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BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

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270,480,002* guns are owned by US residents

Added 2. Buying a Ruger SR22 and Sig P365 on Friday. Can't wait.

 

Also you don't need to own a firearm to hold the same opinion as another.

My sister took her CC class and got certified 2 years ago, but still hasn't even bought a gun.

 

"hoarding" firearms is a rhetoric tactic by the retarded. Same with "fear" is driving force. These are both things said by the uninformed to slight the reasonable people who own guns. Which is overwhelming majority.

I don't hoard my 10+ guns.

They sit in a safe with about 3000 rounds of various types of ammo. Not because I'm waiting for a war. Because I have $500 in steel targets/paper target stands and I like to plink around in the desert with other week or so if I can. Or shooting clay pigeons. Or quail/cottontail hunting. Or waiting to see if I draw a Buck, doe, Bull, Cow tag in Nevada or Utah.

 

Not for fear. It's a metal paper weight. The only ones who fear the sight of a gun are those loony libs who usually have weird hair and black fashion glasses.

It's a sport. It's for hunting. It's for collecting for some. It's for self defense last. Nobody buys a gun to use it against a person. They buy it hoping they only use it at the range.

Same for cars. People buy them to get to work. Not run over bus stops.

Sometimes it happens.

All is well, For Rice is gone.                  

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3 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

Just purchased this in 6.5 Creedmoor and loving it.  Couldn't measure MOA at 100 yards as the bullets were going through the same hole.    Was 1/2 MOA at 300 yards.  

 

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/ultimate-hunter/

 

Nice, I never really modernized any of my firearms.  I wish I could shoot well enough that a new gun would actually help...would be a waste of money on me.  If I can shoot a feral cat at 450yds w my 22 250, I feel I'm good enough. 

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I have never been a good pistol shot, I am left eye dominant and right handed.  A few yrs back I attended a police shooting skill trainer while at a convention on Florida.  I was an absolute hoot and he fixed my problems.  Cut my group of 5 down by over 50% in minutes, amazing

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4 minutes ago, Jackrabbit said:

Nice, I never really modernized any of my firearms.  I wish I could shoot well enough that a new gun would actually help...would be a waste of money on me.  If I can shoot a feral cat at 450yds w my 22 250, I feel I'm good enough. 

I have about $7500 in the gun with the scope and extra magazines, custom stock and the rest.  I probably wouldn't have bought it except I think by July 1 of this year authoritarians will have outlawed guns like this in Nevada and it was my last chance.   

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Just now, Jackrabbit said:

I have never been a good pistol shot, I am left eye dominant and right handed.  A few yrs back I attended a police shooting skill trainer while at a convention on Florida.  I was an absolute hoot and he fixed my problems.  Cut my group of 5 down by over 50% in minutes, amazing

Yeah about 60% of right handed shooters are left eye dominant and it is one reason why so many people have such a problem shooting pistols.    It is the first thing I check for when teaching someone how to shoot a pistol.

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2 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

Yeah about 60% of right handed shooters are left eye dominant and it is one reason why so many people have such a problem shooting pistols.    It is the first thing I check for when teaching someone how to shoot a pistol.

I bought a glock 21 and practiced a lot and got pretty good with it.  Also used a 92FS and got even better.  Both those have big grips.  When I use a conceal gun, my accuracy goes away to the point I am not comfortable with it. 

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1 minute ago, Jackrabbit said:

I bought a glock 21 and practiced a lot and got pretty good with it.  Also used a 92FS and got even better.  Both those have big grips.  When I use a conceal gun, my accuracy goes away to the point I am not comfortable with it. 

You just have to realize the limits of the gun you use and your ability.   A concealed gun with a 2 inch barrel is not something even an expert is going to be able to shoot with any accuracy under pressure farther than 10 feet if that.

If I am going to defend myself I am going to use a shotgun if I have a choice and I have them available all the time everywhere I go.  Obviously I can't carry one into a restaurant or public place but it is at least in my vehicle.  Along with most likely a rifle.    Pistols are a last resort and I have shot at USPSA master level with one.

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15 minutes ago, Jackrabbit said:

I bought a glock 21 and practiced a lot and got pretty good with it.  Also used a 92FS and got even better.  Both those have big grips.  When I use a conceal gun, my accuracy goes away to the point I am not comfortable with it. 

That why my carry weapon has a full grip.

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3 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Yeah about 60% of right handed shooters are left eye dominant and it is one reason why so many people have such a problem shooting pistols.    It is the first thing I check for when teaching someone how to shoot a pistol.

Honest question blues...how does one identify eye dominance and how is it corrected?

I'm ambidextrous.  Can shoot the eye out of a squirrel from 100 yards with a .22 rifle but not super accurate with a pistol.

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23 hours ago, DestinFlPackfan said:

Honest question blues...how does one identify eye dominance and how is it corrected?

I'm ambidextrous.  Can shoot the eye out of a squirrel from 100 yards with a .22 rifle but not super accurate with a pistol.

So this video shows you a very simple test for eye dominance.  https://www.allaboutvision.com/video/dominant-eye.htm

You can easily improve your pistol shooting by just switching to your dominant eye even if it is opposite from your dominant hand.  I am left eye dominant and shoot a pistol right handed so that is what I do and many of the professional shooters do the same thing.   

Now pistol shooting is about trigger pull and how you hold the gun.  You need to make sure you are pulling the trigger with the first pad on your finger.   Any other part of your finger pulling the trigger will tend to pull the gun to the right when you shoot.  pulling the trigger with your first pad should naturally pull the trigger straight back keeping your shot aligned.

This video demonstrates the best grip.   Any other grip like you see in the movies is stupid.   Just some additional tips he doesn't mention.   I am assuming you are right handed so if you are left handed reverse everything i say.   You should drive the gun out from your chest and your left hand is the key to recoil control if you are a right handed shooter.   Your left hand should provide all the pressure to hold the gun.  Your right hand needs to be more relaxed so you can get a good trigger pull.  Again making sure you are pulling the trigger straight back with the first pad on your finger.   If you drive the gun out from your chest gripping the gun as shown in the video you should naturally come up on target as your fingers and thumbs point the same direction the gun is pointing if you extend them.    Remember your finger is not inside the trigger guard unless you are shooting.   Always keep the gun pointed down range and never at anything you don't want to shoot.

 

 

With a rifle or a shotgun the stock of the gun acts as a fence and allows you to use your right eye.   As a kid my father taught me to shoot right handed which i did not like.  I kept trying to put my face across the stock of the gun trying to use my left eye.   Which is fine with a 22 but will break your jaw or at least knock you a little silly using a 12 gauge.    But my father was not going to buy left handed guns for me so i was forced to learn to shoot rifles and shotguns right handed.  Because of the stock i can do that.   When in later life I started shooting pistols I would shoot right eyed and left eyed and all over the place making me inconsistent.   Until i was told about eye dominance.   Nowadays i can shoot anything either left or right handed but through decades of practice I am better right handed with long guns even though my dominant eye is left.

Hope the explanation helps

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