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Chris Webber, Benn Wallace HOF'ers?

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Basketball HOF announced finalists included two of my all-time faves. But I'm not sure if either deserves to be there.

Webber never got to realize his full potential. Wallace was really, really good at two things and would probably have a hard time finding a starting job in today's NBA.

Thoughts?

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Ben Wallace would 100 percent be starting on damn near every team this year, except for teams that have legit All Stars at center. Really really good at rebounding and defense gets you a job. He's won four defensive player of the year awards, he belongs in the hall of fame without a doubt. Not as a first ballot, which he wasn't, but a deserved entrant. 

 

Just looked at the various depth charts, the only teams I can see Ben Wallace not starting on are Denver, Philadelphia and Utah. Jokic doesn't have the lateral quickness to move over to PF, Philly simply does not have the shooting necessary to move Embiid to the 4, and Utah's frontcourt is good enough to start each. And even then, Gobert might come off the bench if it's really prime Ben Wallace. 

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Ben Wallace would start right now. He's the prototypical versatile defender/rebounder/shotblocker that pace and space teams in today's NBA need. 

 

He also probably belongs in the HOF, although its borderline.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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1 hour ago, TheTedfordTrain said:

Both of them are pieces of shit. Especially fake ass Webber. Sellout. Plus, he never accomplished anything with the Sacramento Queens.  

If you think theyre pieces of shit, you should write a letter to the hall of fame because they're failing you and your high standards. Otherwise, why don't you take your tired act somewhere else? 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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3 hours ago, Jersey Rebels said:

Ben Wallace would 100 percent be starting on damn near every team this year, except for teams that have legit All Stars at center. Really really good at rebounding and defense gets you a job. He's won four defensive player of the year awards, he belongs in the hall of fame without a doubt. Not as a first ballot, which he wasn't, but a deserved entrant. 

 

Just looked at the various depth charts, the only teams I can see Ben Wallace not starting on are Denver, Philadelphia and Utah. Jokic doesn't have the lateral quickness to move over to PF, Philly simply does not have the shooting necessary to move Embiid to the 4, and Utah's frontcourt is good enough to start each. And even then, Gobert might come off the bench if it's really prime Ben Wallace. 

 

1 hour ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

Ben Wallace would start right now. He's the prototypical versatile defender/rebounder/shotblocker that pace and space teams in today's NBA need. 

 

He also probably belongs in the HOF, although its borderline.

Ben was an offeslnsive liability for all but one or two years of his career. Though, it's a good point that he could adjust defensively to the current game and defend today's bigs. I will change my stance and say he wouldn't start for half the teams in the NBA today.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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4 hours ago, masterfrog said:

Being that it is the Basketball Hall of Fame, I have no problem with CW getting in.  Even if he never played a minute in the NBA, I think he probably did enough in college.

I always forget that it's the basketball hof, not just the NBA. I think he gets in for that reason. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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9 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

 

Ben was an offeslnsive liability for all but one or two years of his career. Though, it's a good point that he could adjust defensively to the current game and defend today's bigs. I will change my stance and say he wouldn't start for half the teams in the NBA today.

Clint Capela, Kevan Looney, JaVale McGee, etc. can't shoot for shit and started on contenders/champions in recent years. If he was in a system where he could rim run off the pick and roll he'd be fine. 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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It's too bad Webber couldn't have stayed healthy as he would have been one of the greatest players of that generation. Nagging knee injuries limited his career. In a way, his career mirrored Larry Johnson's ... although Webber did have more success as a pro. 

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Rodman is in and Wallace's numbers (rebounding and scoring) are comparable to him.

Wallace had only one championship, but was an all-star 4 times (Rodman two) and defensive player of the year 4 times (Rodman 3).

Chris Webber had comparable rebounding and better scoring numbers than either of those two and was an all star 5 times.

You must like rebounders.  Over an 11 year period the NBA was led in rebounding by only four players: Rodman, Webber, Dikembe Mutombo, and Wallace.  Mutombo is in the hall of fame (he was defensive POY four times and all star 8 times).

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25 minutes ago, BleedRebelRed said:

Rodman is in and Wallace's numbers (rebounding and scoring) are comparable to him.

Rodman 13.1, Wallace 9.6 rebounds per game.  Rodman had 6 years where he averaged more than 15 a game, Wallace 1.  Rodman led the league 7 times, Wallace 2.

 

And Rodman actually scored more.  Which I scarcely believed myself.  All while being significantly smaller.

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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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8 minutes ago, RSF said:

Rodman 13.1, Wallace 9.6 rebounds per game.  Rodman had 6 years where he averaged more than 15 a game, Wallace 1.

 

And Rodman actually scored more.  Which I scarcely believed myself.  All while being significantly smaller.

Wallace played 4 years longer and had four seasons where he averaged 6.5 or less per game, so that kind of drags his per-game average down.  Total Rodman did still have more (about 12,000) to Wallace (about 10,500).  Rodman had 6683 points to Wallace's 6254.

Wallace (2137, 1369) had over three times as many blocks and steals as Rodman (531, 611).

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13 minutes ago, BleedRebelRed said:

Wallace played 4 years longer and had four seasons where he averaged 6.5 or less per game, so that kind of drags his per-game average down.  Total Rodman did still have more (about 12,000) to Wallace (about 10,500).  Rodman had 6683 points to Wallace's 6254.

Wallace (2137, 1369) had over three times as many blocks and steals as Rodman (531, 611).

Wallace only played 100 more games.  And Rodman averaged 14 a game at age 38.  

 

Not sure why you suddenly threw blocks in there.  Or steals for that matter.  Neither was being disputed, just the idea that their rebounds and scoring were comparable.  Webber's rebounding wasnt comparable either.  But Webber had a more complete game.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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These guys would water down the NBA HOF.

Disclaimer: Any views or opinions presented by this poster (Warbow) are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Univesity of Hawaii or it's loyal fans. All quotes and opinions from Warbow are valid for 30 days following the date of post transmission and are subject to change at any time. All information published herein by Warbow is gathered from his own opinions or sources which are thought to be reliable, but the reader should not assume that the information is official or fact.

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1 hour ago, Warbow said:

These guys would water down the NBA HOF.

This maybe the best reason to keep them out. Wallace may make it for his defensive accomplishments with this day and age of offense but Webber never took his game to the next level like we all thought he would.  If I was voting it would be no.

In fact of the 13 finalists that are players I would not vote any of them in.

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1 hour ago, Warbow said:

These guys would water down the NBA HOF.

I tend to agree. This is like letting Journey or Janet Jackson into the Rock and Roll HOF. 

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7 hours ago, Joe from WY said:

Rodman >>>> Wallace. Maybe the GOAT rebounder. 

Pound for pound, definitely. GOAT rebounder in terms of sheer volume is Wilt though.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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