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Rebels18

Trump will sign Spending Bill AND Declare National Emergency

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3 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Maybe. It’s all up to wishy washy minimalist Roberts in the end. A democracy of one. Cue Lee Greenwood.

Roberts is probably licking his chops.  I won't be making any predictions, except of course to say that every day this is delayed is a win for those that opposed a mythical wall across the entire border.  

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Just now, alum93 said:

Roberts is probably licking his chops.  I won't be making any predictions, except of course to say that every day this is delayed is a win for those that opposed a mythical wall across the entire border.  

It’s a huge loss in the end for anyone that gives a damn about the institutions that made us the beacon of the world. Both sides have given up. Bad citizens get the the bad government they deserve. Bulldoze the damn national cemeteries, they died for naught.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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1 minute ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

It’s a huge loss in the end for anyone that gives a damn about the institutions that made us the beacon of the world. Both sides have given up. Bad citizens get the the bad government they deserve. Bulldoze the damn national cemeteries, they died for naught.

That Mencken quote about a moron in the white house I used to use as a signature wasn't as much commentary on politicians as it was a commentary on the American people. 

Democracy has a fundamental flaw - the people. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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4 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

That Mencken quote about a moron in the white house I used to use as a signature wasn't as much commentary on politicians as it was a commentary on the American people. 

Democracy has a fundamental flaw - the people. 

It was worth a shot and still is, but that cynical bastard had it nailed down pat.

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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4 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

It’s a huge loss in the end for anyone that gives a damn about the institutions that made us the beacon of the world. Both sides have given up. Bad citizens get the the bad government they deserve. Bulldoze the damn national cemeteries, they died for naught.

People said the same thing about the Obama years.  And here we are.  We'll survive an $8B test, no matter what the Supreme Court does.  And Trump will be gone soon enough.  My bigger worry is what will happen if this guy and his team are in charge and we have a true attack on our country, like 9/11.  I worry about a huge conflict where cooler heads don't prevail and our military is drawn into a conflict that ultimately pulls other world powers in.  Now thinking about something like that with Trump in charge versus any of his more recent predecessors is way more scary.  A few miles of wall to save face?  Meh,  whatever happens isn't going to fundamentally change anything...  Well, for now anyway.

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2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

It was worth a shot and still is, but that cynical bastard had it nailed down pat.

Now, where can we find that benevolent dictator?

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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7 minutes ago, alum93 said:

People said the same thing about the Obama years.  And here we are.  We'll survive an $8B test, no matter what the Supreme Court does.  And Trump will be gone soon enough.  My bigger worry is what will happen if this guy and his team are in charge and we have a true attack on our country, like 9/11.  I worry about a huge conflict where cooler heads don't prevail and our military is drawn into a conflict that ultimately pulls other world powers in.  Now thinking about something like that with Trump in charge versus any of his more recent predecessors is way more scary.  A few miles of wall to save face?  Meh,  whatever happens isn't going to fundamentally change anything...  Well, for now anyway.

My whole point was that at least their was some portion of the population opposed to Obama’s bullshit. Now that portion has waved the White flag on government by the people, they’re perfectly okay with governing by executive fiat so long as it’s their guy, just as Obama’s ridiculous supporters were. There is nobody left in any numbers to justly oppose when the next moron in cheif wants to screw up our economy tilting at windmills fighting climate change, or screw up the best healthcare system in the world upon which all other systems depend for innovation. The fence is besides the point. It’s the white flag by the last side holding these impulses of the population at bay. The American people want a king, they just disagree on who. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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So, anyone here support this? 

If so, do you think there are any limitations on when a POTUS can declare a national emergency, or do you think it is totally at the discretion of the POTUS?

I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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Just now, Mano said:

So, anyone here support this? 

If so, do you think there are any limitations on when a POTUS can declare a national emergency, or do you think it is totally at the discretion of the POTUS?

That should be it's own thread.  And a keeper.

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Guest #1Stunner

What I don't understand is why didn't the Democrats just offer $5 Billion to fund hiring additional border agents and maybe building a lidar system (instead of physical wall).

I don't think anyone disagrees that we are bit understaffed.  

Why didn't they propose this compromise?   It kind of seems like they think that funding is good enough as is. 

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For political science or political philosophy folks:

Is this a weakness the founders left in our institutions that there is not a protection from those who have political incentives to act at the fringes of their constitutional power?

We are in a position where it is in Trump's political interests to do this. If it works, he wins and we move the line on what we thought was constitutionally allowable in terms of executive power. If it doesn't, he potentially still wins politically because he gets to rail against his constitutional limits and continue to maintain his support. I get that the constitution set up our institutions to be able to change over time when the populace moves one direction or another over time. It's meant to respond to long-term, major popular directives but it is meant to protect against reactionary popular movements. But we seem to be in a place where there is political incentive for those in power to test the limits of their power. It's like the velociraptors in Jurassic Park - the fences and backup systems they installed for those things were not built for the realities on the ground.

This isn't just for Trump, either. I wondered this about some of the things Obama did, and I am worried that it will continue with the next president. If there is political incentive to violate the constitution, what the eff is the point of having one in the first place? 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

For political science or political philosophy folks:

Is this a weakness the founders left in our institutions that there is not a protection from those who have political incentives to act at the fringes of their constitutional power?

We are in a position where it is in Trump's political interests to do this. If it works, he wins and we move the line on what we thought was constitutionally allowable in terms of executive power. If it doesn't, he potentially still wins politically because he gets to rail against his constitutional limits and continue to maintain his support. I get that the constitution set up our institutions to be able to change over time when the populace moves one direction or another over time. It's meant to respond to long-term, major popular directives but it is meant to protect against reactionary popular movements. But we seem to be in a place where there is political incentive for those in power to test the limits of their power. It's like the velociraptors in Jurassic Park - the fences and backup systems they installed for those things were not built for the realities on the ground.

This isn't just for Trump, either. I wondered this about some of the things Obama did, and I am worried that it will continue with the next president. If there is political incentive to violate the constitution, what the eff is the point of having one in the first place? 

Impeachment was put in place for this very reason... I think it's discussed in Federalist 66-69.

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Just now, retrofade said:

Impeachment was put in place for this very reason... I think it's discussed in Federalist 66-69.

I'll take a look when I have time (whenever that will be). 

My sense is that constitutional limits are supposed to prevent people or institutions from pursuing their interests if those interests violate the rights of others. I want to do this thing, I have to step on these people over here to do this thing, and the constitution says - hey, you can't step on those people try to do that thing some other way. But when the interest I'm pursuing is specifically to violate or subvert the constitution, how can you stop that?

I guess you're right that it's impeachment, since impeachment is ultimately a political act. If only people thought about impeachment the way they think about recalls in California.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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19 hours ago, Mano said:

So the lefts Utopia is clean energy and no pollution and the right's Utopia is no brown people?

Jesus Christ dude. Why do you need to bring the race card into the discussion? Give it a rest. Most people would feel the same if the invaders were green or blue. It has nothing to do with race. 

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2 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Jesus Christ dude. Why do you need to bring the race card into the discussion? Give it a rest. Most people would feel the same if the invaders were green or blue. It has nothing to do with race. 

There was a time when Irish, Italian and Polish immigrants weren't white. So, it actually has a lot to do with race. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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9 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Jesus Christ dude. Why do you need to bring the race card into the discussion? Give it a rest. Most people would feel the same if the invaders were green or blue. It has nothing to do with race. 

It’s what they do...  the funny thing is idiots like him actually believe that BS - just like the “Muslim Ban”!!!!

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1 hour ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

It’s a huge loss in the end for anyone that gives a damn about the institutions that made us the beacon of the world. Both sides have given up. Bad citizens get the the bad government they deserve. Bulldoze the damn national cemeteries, they died for naught.

Damn dude.  Drama much?

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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