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westfan

Why SJSU can't Afford to Move to FCS.

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9 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

A man thinks that by mouthing hard words he understands hard things.

On a hard day's night, he rest. After all, he worked with a dog's tenacity. Hardly undeserving. 

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As for the rest of you, never forget that the greater idiot ever scolds the lesser. 

A red sky at night is a sailor's delight. 

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14 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

Big Sky would be a mistake.

But the WAC would be a good fit for SJSU----and I don't think it is all that bad, either.

In the WAC, SJSU would have a much greater chance of making the NCAA tournament.   Right now they have ZERO chance (how is that fun for their fans?)

 

Football, they can easily go FCS Independent, which is what Dixie State University in St. George Utah is planning on doing (FCS Indy is pretty easy to do).

Their fans are oddly against this, because they don't want to lose their rivalry with Fresno State, I guess.   Fresno vs SJSU is one of the more passionate rivalries in the MWC----who knew?

Making the NCAA tourney?  That's a joke right.  Between the WAC and MWC,  there are 3 sub 300 RPI teams - Wyoming, SJSU, Chicago State.  SJSU would be on par with Chicago State, who coincidentally has 3 wins as well all year and has been bad for years and years. 

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Guest #1Stunner
37 minutes ago, alum93 said:

Making the NCAA tourney?  That's a joke right.  Between the WAC and MWC,  there are 3 sub 300 RPI teams - Wyoming, SJSU, Chicago State.  SJSU would be on par with Chicago State, who coincidentally has 3 wins as well all year and has been bad for years and years. 

Yes, SJSU would have a lot higher chance of making the NCAA tournament in the WAC than they do in the MWC.

San Jose would actually win games in the WAC.  They need an easier league.

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28 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Yes, SJSU would have a lot higher chance of making the NCAA tournament in the WAC than they do in the MWC.

San Jose would actually win games in the WAC.  They need an easier league.

They have 3 wins this year.  So does Chicago State.  Where are the easy wins coming from?  They have 0.01% now,  it might be 0.011% in WAC.

Here are updated rankings.  The WAC and MWC are virtually identical.  15 and 16 as of today.  WAC was 6-3 vs MWC.  NMSU was 3-0 vs MWC.  SJSU is bad whatever conference you put them in.  Just like Chicago State is for WAC.  Neither has been able to field a competitive team for years.  MWC is a 1 bid league if Nevada wins tourney.  Outside of a fluke game in Albq, Nevada is rolling through the MWC and probably won't lose another game. WAC is a 1 bid league as well.  Sub 300 RPI teams will get crushed no matter where you put them.  SJSU and Chicago State are sub 300 teams.

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

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8 minutes ago, alum93 said:

They have 3 wins this year.  So does Chicago State.  Where are the easy wins coming from?  They have 0.01% now,  it might be 0.011% in WAC.

Here are updated rankings.  The WAC and MWC are virtually identical.  15 and 16 as of today.  WAC was 6-3 vs MWC.  NMSU was 3-0 vs MWC.  SJSU is bad whatever conference you put them in.  Just like Chicago State is for WAC.  Neither has been able to field a competitive team for years.  MWC is a 1 bid league if Nevada wins tourney.  Outside of a fluke game in Albq, Nevada is rolling through the MWC and probably won't lose another game. WAC is a 1 bid league as well.  Sub 300 RPI teams will get crushed no matter where you put them.  SJSU and Chicago State are sub 300 teams.

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

P12 is probably a 1 bid league also. According to your logic the wac is as good of a basketball conference as the p12. 

"but we only lost to Stanford by 3."

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14 minutes ago, boisewitha-s said:

P12 is probably a 1 bid league also. According to your logic the wac is as good of a basketball conference as the p12. 

No one is talking about the P12.   I will leave names out.  Here are conference RPIs.

Conference 1 (6-3 vs Conference 2)

RPIs:  42, 80, 130, 156, 157, 222, 233, 259,  337

Conference 2 (3-6 vs Conference 1)

RPIs: 13, 50, 102, 155,162, 175, 212, 213, 249, 324, 334

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_mwest_Men.html

Notice the similar number of teams below 100, below 200, and above 300.  Except for Nevada, who is making easy work of MWC teams,  they are nearly identical.  By the way, Nevada is 13 for those not paying attention :-)

Yet somehow,  SJSU, who sit at 334, is going to beat teams 100 and 200 places above them if they switch conferences?  Come on...  

 

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56 minutes ago, alum93 said:

They have 3 wins this year.  So does Chicago State.  Where are the easy wins coming from?  They have 0.01% now,  it might be 0.011% in WAC.

Here are updated rankings.  The WAC and MWC are virtually identical.  15 and 16 as of today.  WAC was 6-3 vs MWC.  NMSU was 3-0 vs MWC.  SJSU is bad whatever conference you put them in.  Just like Chicago State is for WAC.  Neither has been able to field a competitive team for years.  MWC is a 1 bid league if Nevada wins tourney.  Outside of a fluke game in Albq, Nevada is rolling through the MWC and probably won't lose another game. WAC is a 1 bid league as well.  Sub 300 RPI teams will get crushed no matter where you put them.  SJSU and Chicago State are sub 300 teams.

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept for you....

Chicago State plays against the much weaker WAC.

SJSU plays against the MWC.

Therefore, the two are not comparable.   They don't play the same schedule at all....

 

Also, your assertion that the WAC is stronger than the MWC, or comparable is silly.   No one believes that.   The WAC is is a lot weaker than the MWC.   Sorry, but it is.   I know you are a NMSU fan and want to pretend that you are in a conference that is as good as the MWC, but you aren't (sorry).

SJSU joining the weaker WAC would be a good thing for SJSU.   They'd be in a conference with weaker competition, where they'd be able to compete.   They'd be much more successful and have a lot higher chance at making the NCAA tournament.

Also, the WAC is not that bad of an experience.   There are schools with good fan support in that conference.

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41 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept for you....

Chicago State plays against the much weaker WAC.

SJSU plays against the MWC.

Therefore, the two are not comparable.   They don't play the same schedule at all....

 

Also, your assertion that the WAC is stronger than the MWC, or comparable is silly.   No one believes that.   The WAC is is a lot weaker than the MWC.   Sorry, but it is.   I know you are a NMSU fan and want to pretend that you are in a conference that is as good as the MWC, but you aren't (sorry).

SJSU joining the weaker WAC would be a good thing for SJSU.   They'd be in a conference with weaker competition, where they'd be able to compete.   They'd be much more successful and have a lot higher chance at making the NCAA tournament.

Also, the WAC is not that bad of an experience.   There are schools with good fan support in that conference.

I've already shared the data above.  Both are single bid leagues.   Take out Nevada, and the RPI numbers top to bottom are virtually identical.  It's not difficult at all for those that actually pay attention.  SJSU would get destroyed in the WAC just the same as Chicago State would in the MWC.  Both are not competitive at the D1 level.  Sub 300 RPIs, both at the very bottom of college basketball, shows it.  No offense, but your argument makes zero sense.  Either way, i post the data.  Ignore it if you want.  I don't care.  Nevada is a great team this year (and last).  The rest of the MWC versus the WAC is identical top to bottom comparing RPIs.  And then there is the head to head record.  Or just the eye ball test.  Either way,  results are the same. Maybe it changes next year.  Maybe it doesn't.  But it is what it is for the 2018-19 season.  And the leagues were close last year too if you are curious.  You may think i am taking a shot at the MWC.  I am not.  I happen to think both leagues play good basketball.  That's why they are so close in rankings.  If you have numbers, actual data, that is significantly different, feel free to share.  I won't hold my breath though.  We are in the stretch run now.  RPIs and NET ranking won't change much in the final 6 games.  And Nevada will still get the lone MWC bid barring an upset in Vegas.

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24 minutes ago, alum93 said:

I've already shared the data above.  Both are single bid leagues.   Take out Nevada, and the RPI numbers top to bottom are virtually identical.  It's not difficult at all for those that actually pay attention.  SJSU would get destroyed in the WAC just the same as Chicago State would in the MWC.  Both are not competitive at the D1 level.  Sub 300 RPIs, both at the very bottom of college basketball, shows it.  No offense, but your argument makes zero sense.  Either way, i post the data.  Ignore it if you want.  I don't care.  Nevada is a great team this year (and last).  The rest of the MWC versus the WAC is identical top to bottom comparing RPIs.  And then there is the head to head record.  Or just the eye ball test.  Either way,  results are the same. Maybe it changes next year.  Maybe it doesn't.  But it is what it is for the 2018-19 season.  And the leagues were close last year too if you are curious.  You may think i am taking a shot at the MWC.  I am not.  I happen to think both leagues play good basketball.  That's why they are so close in rankings.  If you have numbers, actual data, that is significantly different, feel free to share.  I won't hold my breath though.  We are in the stretch run now.  RPIs and NET ranking won't change much in the final 6 games.  And Nevada will still get the lone MWC bid barring an upset in Vegas.

When was the last time that a WAC team won an NCAA tournament game?

What about NIT?   Which conference had more NIT teams over the past 5 years?

MWC is much stronger the the WAC----it isn't close!

Citing one down year as evidence that the WAC=MWC is silly.

 

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22 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

When was the last time that a WAC team won an NCAA tournament game?

MWC is much stronger the the WAC----it isn't close!

Citing one down year as evidence that the WAC=MWC is silly.

 

LOL, so because Nevada had an awesome comeback in the first round game last year the rest of the league was better?  Again, RPI numbers are virtually identical after Nevada.  Maybe you are thinking it's 2013 or 2014 again.  There was a time when the gap was huge.  That time has gone.  Like i said, it may be that way again.  It just isn't now.  Heck, your own fans are talking about what it would be like when UNM, SDSU, UNLV get back to some magical level.  They know what the talent level is now.  Why are you even arguing.  The RPI numbers are above.  Do you not recognize the same amount of top 100 teams (2), similar amount of top 200 teams(4 vs 3)?  Or are you just being silly.  This isn't hard. And the MWC even has 2 sub 300 teams versus one on WAC.  I'm not even putting the MWC down, just using the same numbers and logic the NCAA tourney committee will when they hand out bids.  Use NET numbers if you want, analysis will be similar.  And yes, for the fifth time, Nevada is really really really good.  That doesn't make teams 2-10 better.  That's why Nevada is cruising through the MWC like butter with one bad game, which they proved was a total fluke with a beat down on Saturday.  Numbers don't lie.

Citing one year is exactly what i am doing.  I am talking this year.  If you thought i was talking historically, then that's on you.  So to be perfectly clear, with the exception of an awesome Nevada team, the WAC and MWC are the same for the 2018-19 season.  Not 5 years ago.  Not projecting for years to come.  This season.  There, hope you feel better.  And what started all this was your comment about SJSU having a chance for NCAA in WAC, which everyone on this board probably finds just as humorous as i do.

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3 minutes ago, creeper86 said:

Couple uh weirdos blabbering on. Neither of you are very important and nobody, I mean nobody, other than the two of you is reading any of those War and Peace posts. Earn some money today.

LOL, i've seen your posts man.  You calling anyone else a weirdo is rich... Thanks for bumping the thread though.  Nice work.

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Just now, alum93 said:

LOL, i've seen your posts man.  You calling anyone else a weirdo is rich... 

Your opinion, I think I’m pretty superior to most here. But who cares, whatever it takes for the two of you to stop the scratching and hair pulling-nauseating...all good though. You’re a deep poster.

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2 hours ago, alum93 said:

No one is talking about the P12.   I will leave names out.  Here are conference RPIs.

Conference 1 (6-3 vs Conference 2)

RPIs:  42, 80, 130, 156, 157, 222, 233, 259,  337

Conference 2 (3-6 vs Conference 1)

RPIs: 13, 50, 102, 155,162, 175, 212, 213, 249, 324, 334

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_mwest_Men.html

Notice the similar number of teams below 100, below 200, and above 300.  Except for Nevada, who is making easy work of MWC teams,  they are nearly identical.  By the way, Nevada is 13 for those not paying attention :-)

Yet somehow,  SJSU, who sit at 334, is going to beat teams 100 and 200 places above them if they switch conferences?  Come on...  

 

Why would you cite "RPI" as a metric? It was always a shiitty metric that's why it's been replaced.

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1 hour ago, renoskier said:

Why would you cite "RPI" as a metric? It was always a shiitty metric that's why it's been replaced.

Use any of them - Kenpom, Massey, Realtimerpi, NET, etc.  They will all tell the same story.  Nevada is the cream of the crop from either conference, and the rest of the teams match up numbers wise - top, middle, and bottom.  At the end of the year,  take all the different ratings, and WAC and MWC will be separated by maybe 1-3 spots, out of 32 conferences.  Same story.  More important than just numbers, i've watched USU, UNM, UNLV, Fresno, and Wyoming games as MM and Weir both coached at NMSU.  The teams look like WAC level and that's not an insult.  Good P5 teams play at a different level - ACC, BiG, B12.  To my eye, WAC and MWC look about the same. I think for the most part, especially the top 3-4, it's good solid D1 basketball.  Bottom 2 teams in both are horrible.  Numbers just happen to back it up.  This year to be clear comparing leagues, as Stunner thought i was talking about years past evidently.

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A little back-of-the-envelope calculation of the current NCAA NET rankings.

 

MWC w/Nevada (11 teams) - average rank of 168.3

MWC w/o Nevada (10 teams) - average rank of 183.8

WAC (9 teams) - average rank of 175.6

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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1 hour ago, alum93 said:

Use any of them - Kenpom, Massey, Realtimerpi, NET, etc.  They will all tell the same story.  Nevada is the cream of the crop from either conference, and the rest of the teams match up numbers wise - top, middle, and bottom.  At the end of the year,  take all the different ratings, and WAC and MWC will be separated by maybe 1-3 spots, out of 32 conferences.  Same story.  More important than just numbers, i've watched USU, UNM, UNLV, Fresno, and Wyoming games as MM and Weir both coached at NMSU.  The teams look like WAC level and that's not an insult.  Good P5 teams play at a different level - ACC, BiG, B12.  To my eye, WAC and MWC look about the same. I think for the most part, especially the top 3-4, it's good solid D1 basketball.  Bottom 2 teams in both are horrible.  Numbers just happen to back it up.  This year to be clear comparing leagues, as Stunner thought i was talking about years past evidently.

For a good comparison, nothing beats the Massey Composite; 58 computer rankings.

https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

This year, the MWC is ranked a pitiful 12th with an average of 165.76; behind the freaking Ivy League:facepalm:

The WAC is ranked 17th with an average of 181.47.

This is by far the worst showing for the MWC in the last 6 years and one of the best for the WAC;

End of season rankings:

2018     MWC 8     WAC 17

2017     MWC 9     WAC 19

2016     MWC 9     WAC 24

2015     MWC 11     WAC 31

2014     MWC 10     WAC 23

Year after year, the MWC is considerably stronger than the WAC.

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22 minutes ago, renoskier said:

For a good comparison, nothing beats the Massey Composite; 58 computer rankings.

https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

This year, the MWC is ranked a pitiful 12th with an average of 165.76; behind the freaking Ivy League:facepalm:

The WAC is ranked 17th with an average of 181.47.

This is by far the worst showing for the MWC in the last 6 years and one of the best for the WAC;

End of season rankings:

2018     MWC 8     WAC 17

2017     MWC 9     WAC 19

2016     MWC 9     WAC 24

2015     MWC 11     WAC 31

2014     MWC 10     WAC 23

Year after year, the MWC is considerably stronger than the WAC.

 

And despite the metrics, if Nevada wins the MW Tournament this is likely a 1-bid league for the third time in four years.

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