Jump to content
mugtang

Green New Deal

Recommended Posts

I'm surprised and disappointed none of you have yet to post about this.  But let me tell you, this thing delivers.  Here are some of the highlights from their FAQ:

Quote

Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work

Quote

We set a goal to get to net-zero, rather than zero emissions, in 10 years because we aren't sure that we'll be able to fully get rid of farting cows and airplanes that fast, but we think we can ramp up renewable manufacturing and power production,  retrofit every building in America, build the smart grid, overhaul transportation and agriculture, plant lots of trees and restore our ecosystem to get to net-zero.

 

Quote

How will you pay for it?

The same way we paid for the New Deal, the 2008 bank bailout and extended quantitative easing programs.  The same way we paid for World War II and all our current wars.  The Federal Reserve can extend credit to power these projects and investments and new public banks can be created to extend credit.  There is also space for the government to take an equity stake in project to get a return on investment.  At the end of the day, this is an investment in our economy that should grow our wealth as a nation, so the question isn't how will we pay for it, but what will we do with our new shared prosperity.

 

Quote

The level of investment required is massive.  Even if every billionaire and company came together and were willing to pour all the resources at their disposal into this investment, the aggregate value of the investments they could make would not be sufficient.

 

Quote

Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency

 

Quote

Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create affordable public transit to available to all, with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle

 

I could keep going but I don't need to.  What she's proposing is essentially communism, where those unwilling to work don't have to and will be supported by those willing to work and the government will take control of the entire economy.  It's almost like we've tried that before.  I just can't remember where it was done.  :shrug:

  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is she proposing building high speed rails to Hawaii, etc?  I can’t wait to see that!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, bsubroncochick said:

Is she proposing building high speed rails to Hawaii, etc?  I can’t wait to see that!

No we’re just going to be able to magically teleport over the oceans.  Or something.  You’re asking a lot here for a poorly thought out proposal!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mugtang said:

No we’re just going to be able to magically teleport over the oceans.  Or something.  You’re asking a lot here for a poorly thought out proposal!

Well I mean, if you think about it, she's essentially just describing earth in the 24th century.... if this were Star Trek. If it were Star Trek, then we could magically teleport over the oceans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, retrofade said:

spchlss.gif

Right?  I mean, I’m all for moving toward 100% renewable energy. It’s a good idea. But this...this is just....radical imo.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My god...Is that how it all works out, huh? Tweak a few things here and there...get rid of airplanes and the economy...DONE! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, retrofade said:

Well I mean, if you think about it, she's essentially just describing earth in the 24th century.... if this were Star Trek. If it were Star Trek, then we could magically teleport over the oceans.

You make a valid point.  And I was literally just discussing replication with a liberal friend of mine on Facebook messenger and how that would change everything.  But we aren’t there yet.  And teleportation is a couple centuries off, unfortunately.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, And? said:

My god...Is that how it all works out, huh? Tweak a few things here and there...get rid of airplanes and the economy...DONE! 

Don’t forget, economic security for those unwilling to work!   Where do I sign up?

  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, mugtang said:

I'm surprised and disappointed none of you have yet to post about this.  But let me tell you, this thing delivers.  Here are some of the highlights from their FAQ:

 

 

 

 

 

I could keep going but I don't need to.  What she's proposing is essentially communism, where those unwilling to work don't have to and will be supported by those willing to work and the government will take control of the entire economy.  It's almost like we've tried that before.  I just can't remember where it was done.  :shrug:

The problem with it is how many of these things we really do need to do. We do need to build a smart grid. We do need to invest in renewable manufacturing and power production (chill, I'm including nuclear here because "enough uranium for 4 billion years" is better than renewable). We do need to overhaul transportation and agriculture - as in, invest in our dams, canals, roads, and bridges. We should build high speed rail in certain population corridors- real high speed rail, not the cali abortion - because it is ludicrous that with the population density of the East Coast, Boston to DC is something that is flown instead of ridden. 

She takes all these things that are sane and will make the country stronger and adds them to stuff like "retrofit every building in the country" - this would likely be more expensive than rebuilding every building in the country btw - committing to net zero emissions in a nation that needs mechanized power to feed itself, going all-in on electric cars when we don't have the green energy generation to make that reasonable, dedicating probably 20 trillion in debt to accomplish them, and having an insane timetable as if the skills required to do these things are cheap. This is regardless of "pay anyone who just doesn't want to work". We can't afford that. We're inching closer to true no scarcity society but we are not there yet. We might be halfway there, but that would also mean we are hundreds of years away from it. 

Why does everything from DC have a poison pill attached?

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What will all of this do to the thriving coal industry?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, happycamper said:

The problem with it is how many of these things we really do need to do. We do need to build a smart grid. We do need to invest in renewable manufacturing and power production (chill, I'm including nuclear here because "enough uranium for 4 billion years" is better than renewable). We do need to overhaul transportation and agriculture - as in, invest in our dams, canals, roads, and bridges. We should build high speed rail in certain population corridors- real high speed rail, not the cali abortion - because it is ludicrous that with the population density of the East Coast, Boston to DC is something that is flown instead of ridden. 

She takes all these things that are sane and will make the country stronger and adds them to stuff like "retrofit every building in the country" - this would likely be more expensive than rebuilding every building in the country btw - committing to net zero emissions in a nation that needs mechanized power to feed itself, going all-in on electric cars when we don't have the green energy generation to make that reasonable, dedicating probably 20 trillion in debt to accomplish them, and having an insane timetable as if the skills required to do these things are cheap. This is regardless of "pay anyone who just doesn't want to work". We can't afford that. We're inching closer to true no scarcity society but we are not there yet. We might be halfway there, but that would also mean we are hundreds of years away from it. 

Why does everything from DC have a poison pill attached?

I agree with a lot of what you said.  It’s just the stupid parts of the proposal that make it impossible to happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mugtang said:

Right?  I mean, I’m all for moving toward 100% renewable energy. It’s a good idea. But this...this is just....radical imo.  

So here's my takeaway before tools et al turn this thread into a diatribe about racists evil liburlll authoritarians. 

Is the plan perfect? Hell no. Is it even that feasible? No, not really. What is it then? It's a springboard. If we take what she's proposing here, pie in the sky and unrealistic as it is, a lot of the ideas aren't necessarily bad on their face. Investing in renewable energy with a goal of 100% reliance on it --- I don't agree with ruling nuclear out, that's silly --- is a great goal, and it's attainable in time. Investing in education from K-12 and beyond to prepare people for a trade? Great, I'm all for it. Guaranteeing a job for everyone that pays enough to support a family, a house, a car, the requisite 2.5 children, and a dog? Eeeehhhhh, no not so much. Taking care of people who just don't feel like working? No. +++++ that noise. Taking care of people who are disabled and unable to provide for themselves? Now we're back moving in the right direction. Investing in infrastructure? Yes, it's desperately needed. Replacing every +++++ing building in the country? Oh Jesus Christ, child, how high were you? 

I won't go down into it further, but I think you get my point. There's room here to work with to try and set the country on a course for ending reliance on fossil fuels, investing in infrastructure, and modernizing our power grids and power generation with renewable energy. Clean air and water are good for everyone. So while I laugh at the sheer absurdity and downright naivety being exhibited in some of the shit that's in it, there are elements that we absolutely should be working towards. I've long said that we need another space race... and maybe that's what this can be. Not necessarily a race back to space (but I want one of those as well), but a race to a new future... and who knows what kind of developments that could come along the way. The modern world as we know it today doesn't come about, or with the speed it did without the alien technology at Area 51 the space race and other similar ventures. So hell, let's go for it, because a lot of those things need to be done anyway.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, edluvar said:

What will all of this do to the thriving coal industry?

We do need that beautiful clean coal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any conservative as uninformed as this woman would be relentlessly mocked...Sarah Palin style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah there's nothing serious about any of these proposals. It's largely an attempt to push the party to the left IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, sebasour said:

Yeah there's nothing serious about any of these proposals. It's largely an attempt to push the party to the left IMO.

Stupid if that’s the case...  there are a lot of smart Democrats, let alone Independents, that won’t follow the party this far left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

Stupid if that’s the case...  there are a lot of smart Democrats, let alone Independents, that won’t follow the party this far left.

A year from now no one is going to remember the specifics, and you won't want to be a Democrat running in a primary who opposed a bill that supports clean energy, economic security for the poor, and improving our aging infrastructure.

 

Republicans would often make ultra right wing proposals when Obama was in office, knowing they had absolutely zero chance of passing. Candidates would double down in their primaries, and then all of a sudden get real gun shy when they actually gained power. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×