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Bruininthebay

American Athletic and ESPN do not reach agreement during exclusive negotiations for new TV deal

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9 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

In comparison to UCSD, Bako had to do more to demonstrate their  worthiness for admission.  I don't think that UCSD's current athletic program is as good as Bakersfield ten years ago.

https://www.bakersfield.com/sports/big-west-passes-on-csub-invites-hawaii-instead/article_153666ad-8c2e-592e-aa3b-4bfa7715f528.html

The Big West Conference has spoken, and the answer is "no" to Cal State Bakersfield's bid for membership.

 

 Bako moved up to Division 1 without an invite.  They simply assumed the BW would take them out of desperation after Utah State left and just because they were a Cal State.

If it was any consolation, UCSD - and Seattle, allegedly - were also told no.

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2 minutes ago, jdgaucho said:

 Bako moved up to Division 1 without an invite.  They simply assumed the BW would take them out of desperation after Utah State left and just because they were a Cal State.

If it was any consolation, UCSD - and Seattle, allegedly - were also told no.

Seattle was 0-2 if I remember right. Got turned down by the BW and WCC before joining the WAC.

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4 hours ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

CSUB's campus might look like a community college but they have a decent basketball program which is located in a county of almost a million people which contains no other university and CSUB isn't exactly known for being a school for sports-ignoring intellectuals. Adding CSUB to the Big West therefore makes some sense. However, UCSD has absolutely no basketball heritage and it's located within 30 minutes of two other schools which play major college hoops and I've been assured that UCSD is no different than it was when I attended SDSU in being a school of intellectual nerds who don't give a rat's ass about sports. It is therefore a HORRIBLE addition to the Big West. Wanna know how UCSD will performance as a member of the conference? Think UCR or CSUN. Strike that, think UCR only. Even CSUN occasionally accomplishes something athletically.

SGF explained why Bako > UCSD already

It's ridiculous for UCSD to be in the Big West and Bako be stranded in the WAC.

Seattle will replace BYU in the WCC if the Cougars get a Big 12 invite.  The Redhawks were WCC members in the 50s and 60s - Elgin Baylor is an alum.

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2 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

I wonder if some of the MWC schools have considered essentially trying a hostile takeover of the WAC? If BYU was onboard it would only take 6 football playing schools to jump to the WAC to give them the 8 needed to have a FBS conference. SDSU, Fresno, UNR, UNLV, and Hawaii is 5; so one more and you could do it. Could be Boise, could be a mountain school, could be a CUSA school (UTEP?). It would give the WAC 15 all sports members, but Seattle or GCU (or maybe both) would almost certainly be headed to the WCC to replace BYU, so you would have at the most 14 schools, which is manageable. Get a TV deal that allows you to keep your tier 3 rights (which would be more valuable with 5 OOC games) and that is arguably a better all around situation for SDSU then what you guys have currently.

It would be like founding a new conference without actually having to start from scratch and found a new conference. 

Thank you and I agree. Here's something bottom feeder schools who don't want to surrender their slice of pooled tier 3 money should consider.

Back in the day, one consideration in a bunch of us leaving the MWC was loss of NCAA tournament credits. However, if the MWC continues to be just a one- or two-bid league and those teams continue to fail to win more than one game in the dance, the tournament credit money is going to be a mere pittance of what it used to be and, therefore, no longer an incentive to remain in King Craig's landfill of a conference.

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2 hours ago, jdgaucho said:

The thought hasn't occurred to me that you can put your sports in the WAC.  I don't believe you would though. 

SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Hawaii and UNR with Grand Canyon, Cal Baptist, UMKC, Utah Valley, Dixie State, Seattle, UT-RGV, Chicago State and NMSU.  Talk about a wild hodge podge.

I admittedly don't follow it closely but I thought I heard that UMKC and Chicago State were leaving in the next year or two. As to the CSU members of the Big West allegedly being pissed about "Title IX," that's absurd.

The CSU campuses may still play football have a reason to be pissed but it isn't actually Title IX. It's what is called the Cal-NOW settlement. The NOW is short for the National Organization for Women which sued the CSU system for gender discrimination following which the CSU almost immediately caved. And the settlement went further beyond mere Title IX than any other universities of which I'm aware did. By that is meant they not only agreed to fund at least as many women's athletic scholarships as men's  as the law required, they agreed to fund women's scholarships according to the percentage of female students. And given that almost all the CSU campuses were originally "normal" schools created to develop K-12 teachers and given that something like 70% of K-12 teachers are women, with a couple exceptions (the Maritime Academy in Vallejo is one), there are always more female students than male students on CSU campuses.

The difference is essentially irrelevant on any campus which doesn't have a football team but it is immense even for schools which play at the FCS level like Cal Poly SLO and Sac State because they still have to fund 53 football scholarships none of which will be filled by female students.

So since Cal Poly is the only Big West school which plays football, Cal Poly is the only Big West school which has anything reason to complain.

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SGF, @Bruininthebay was the one mentioning the Cal State Title IX stuff.  Not me

There are indeed roomers floating around that UMKC is heading back to the Summit League and Chicago State is essentially getting kicked out for their decreasing enrollment and inability to fulfill certain obligations, such as adding men's soccer which they agreed to do upon joining the WAC.  If they both leave now it would put the WAC back at seven members - the bare minimum for an NCAA hoops auto bid - with Dixie State and Cal Baptist ineligible while they transition.

I'll believe UMKC and Chicago State are out when I see it.

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1 hour ago, Bruininthebay said:

SGF explained why Bako > UCSD already

It's ridiculous for UCSD to be in the Big West and Bako be stranded in the WAC.

Seattle will replace BYU in the WCC if the Cougars get a Big 12 invite.  The Redhawks were WCC members in the 50s and 60s - Elgin Baylor is an alum.

 

It's also ridiculous to leave a home where you're accepted by all, for a new home where nobody wants you.

If Bako > UCSD, then they should have been able to earn an invite on their own merits.  Instead they had to weasel their way in by preying on UCSD's desperation.  SDSU and Fresno would've had no issue getting past the balance question. 

The Big West commissioner once said his vision was 10 California members.  At some point, there's simply no more room for Cal State or UC whomever. Because of that I strongly believe Seattle or Portland State would join before SJSU or Sac State does.

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38 minutes ago, jdgaucho said:

SGF, @Bruininthebay was the one mentioning the Cal State Title IX stuff.  Not me

There are indeed roomers floating around that UMKC is heading back to the Summit League and Chicago State is essentially getting kicked out for their decreasing enrollment and inability to fulfill certain obligations, such as adding men's soccer which they agreed to do upon joining the WAC.  If they both leave now it would put the WAC back at seven members - the bare minimum for an NCAA hoops auto bid - with Dixie State and Cal Baptist ineligible while they transition.

I'll believe UMKC and Chicago State are out when I see it.

Yes, I'm aware it was the Bruin who so stated. As the fan of a school in the University of California system which didn't kowtow to NOW (I'm a poet but I didn't know it), he was likely unaware of just how much former members of the CSU board of trustees handicapped the football programs of the schools over which they had authority.

Doesn't matter, of course, because CSU campuses ALWAYS have plenty of money to plug the gaps.                                        Oh wait . . .

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17 hours ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Thank you and I agree. Here's something bottom feeder schools who don't want to surrender their slice of pooled tier 3 money should consider.

Back in the day, one consideration in a bunch of us leaving the MWC was loss of NCAA tournament credits. However, if the MWC continues to be just a one- or two-bid league and those teams continue to fail to win more than one game in the dance, the tournament credit money is going to be a mere pittance of what it used to be and, therefore, no longer an incentive to remain in King Craig's landfill of a conference.

Yea I have thought for a while that most schools in this conference would probably be better off if the conference split in to two 8-9 school conferences; one going from Utah west, and the other with the front range schools and some Texas schools from CUSA. I think the TV money would be better and the travel would be cheaper. The big downside to that is that starting a conference from scratch is expensive and (I believe) you wouldn’t have an autobid to the playoffs in any sport for several years.

But this could be avoided by the western schools “taking over” the WAC and leaving the front range schools in the MWC to backfill with Texas schools. Now the travel wouldn’t be much cheaper for the “new WAC” with all the oly members, but the increased TV money would more then balance that. Plus as you said, the tourney credits being left behind wouldn’t be all that much because of the last few years. And I know I dismissed my alma mater earlier, but in thinking about it they probably would be allowed to tag along as it would just be easier; in this scenario a school like UTEP would probably prefer to be in the “new MWC”, and the western schools might actually prefer SJSU, even with all our faults, over one Texas outlier. 

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17 hours ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

I admittedly don't follow it closely but I thought I heard that UMKC and Chicago State were leaving in the next year or two. As to the CSU members of the Big West allegedly being pissed about "Title IX," that's absurd.

The CSU campuses may still play football have a reason to be pissed but it isn't actually Title IX. It's what is called the Cal-NOW settlement. The NOW is short for the National Organization for Women which sued the CSU system for gender discrimination following which the CSU almost immediately caved. And the settlement went further beyond mere Title IX than any other universities of which I'm aware did. By that is meant they not only agreed to fund at least as many women's athletic scholarships as men's  as the law required, they agreed to fund women's scholarships according to the percentage of female students. And given that almost all the CSU campuses were originally "normal" schools created to develop K-12 teachers and given that something like 70% of K-12 teachers are women, with a couple exceptions (the Maritime Academy in Vallejo is one), there are always more female students than male students on CSU campuses.

The difference is essentially irrelevant on any campus which doesn't have a football team but it is immense even for schools which play at the FCS level like Cal Poly SLO and Sac State because they still have to fund 53 football scholarships none of which will be filled by female students.

So since Cal Poly is the only Big West school which plays football, Cal Poly is the only Big West school which has anything reason to complain.

There has been no word of UMKC and Chicago State leaving, other than fans on sites like this site and others speculating.  Nothing wrong with that by the way.  Kind of like wondering if GCU would have been invited if Gonzaga had bolted to MWC.  Next thing you know someone else says they heard GCU is joining the WCC.  Chicago State has been in dire straights financially for years, but haven't heard anything to suggest any move is imminent.  It certainly wouldn't surprise me.  Other than that, all of the WAC schools seem to be on solid ground and the conference has performed nicely last few years in particular in terms of making steady improvements on conference rankings.  It went from middle 20s 5 years ago to 12-15ish now depending on site.

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4 minutes ago, alum93 said:

There has been no word of UMKC and Chicago State leaving, other than fans on sites like this site and others speculating.  Nothing wrong with that by the way.  Kind of like wondering if GCU would have been invited if Gonzaga had bolted to MWC.  Next thing you know someone else says they heard GCU is joining the WCC.  Chicago State has been in dire straights financially for years, but haven't heard anything to suggest any move is imminent.  It certainly wouldn't surprise me.  Other than that, all of the WAC schools seem to be on solid ground and the conference has performed nicely last few years in particular in terms of making steady improvements on conference rankings.  It went from middle 20s 5 years ago to 12-15ish now depending on site.

We've gotta get Grand Canyon to the WCC. 

They belong in the WCC---not the WAC.

@jdgaucho was the first person to point out the value of Grand Canyon.  He did this years ago.

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2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

We've gotta get Grand Canyon to the WCC. 

They belong in the WCC---not the WAC.

@jdgaucho was the first person to point out the value of Grand Canyon.  He did this years ago.

Is GCC still a FOR-profit university? If so, the NCAA never should have accepted it as a member.

I'm waiting for the University of Phoenix to take the mega-millions it's earned from questionably legitimate online courses and become the Findlay Prep of college hoops.

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3 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Is GCC still a FOR-profit university? If so, the NCAA never should have accepted it as a member.

I'm waiting for the University of Phoenix to take the mega-millions it's earned from questionably legitimate online courses and become the Findlay Prep of college hoops.

They actually transitioned back to being a non-profit this school year. 

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11 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Is GCC still a FOR-profit university? If so, the NCAA never should have accepted it as a member.

I'm waiting for the University of Phoenix to take the mega-millions it's earned from questionably legitimate online courses and become the Findlay Prep of college hoops.

No.  They are not-for-profit now.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-education/2018/07/02/grand-canyon-university-regains-its-non-profit-status/747376002/

 

I looked up their academic rankings a while back.  They are ranked essentially the same as Boise State, 

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14 minutes ago, SalinasSpartan said:

They actually transitioned back to being a non-profit this school year. 

 

Questions remain.  Was it a legit transition?  TBD

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshmoody/2018/07/17/for-profit-giant-goes-nonprofit-amid-questions-and-concerns/#2564b9af5bbe

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2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

We've gotta get Grand Canyon to the WCC. 

They belong in the WCC---not the WAC.

@jdgaucho was the first person to point out the value of Grand Canyon.  He did this years ago.

 

Thanks for the credit Stunner.  I viewed Grand Canyon as an institution with new money, offering a different dynamic.  I pointed out their value but moreso as a prospective addition to the Big West, although it extends to the WCC as well. If either conference can overlook their academics they'd be getting a much needed shot in the arm. 

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33 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

No.  They are not-for-profit now.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-education/2018/07/02/grand-canyon-university-regains-its-non-profit-status/747376002/

 

I looked up their academic rankings a while back.  They are ranked essentially the same as Boise State, 

 

Really, how much do academic rankings matter?  The Big West had no problem bringing back Boise State or adding Cal State Bakersfield - two institutions not exactly viewed as Public Ivies.  And the WCC had no problem adding Pacific.

If GCU is willing to leave the WAC and pony up cash, they'll find a new home.  And GCU leaving the WAC would be a major blow to that conference.

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1st use-able non speculative numbers, memphis papers filled request for information with the university of memphis

memphis after negiation talks , that arent finished yet (so it could change)..expect to double the current contract to 5 mill to finish out the last year...then a new 3 year contract that averages 7mil per (its is actually escalating, it will be 8.5m by the final year)

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2019/03/02/memphis-aac-distributions-new-media-rights-deal/3036457002/

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March 2 = actual news!  Also, I still have  jet lag after an east coast trip (Uugh)

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2019/03/02/memphis-aac-distributions-new-media-rights-deal/3036457002/

"The heir" Tom Bowen makes an in person report to Memphis's trustees Wednesday so, per Tennessee law, documents to be discussed are provided in advance to journalists.

Memphis estimates  it will receive about $5 million next year from conference distributions but expects that figure to increase to $8.5 million in fiscal years 2021-23, according to documents released ahead of Athletic Director Tom Bowen's presentation to the university's Board of Trustees Wednesday morning.

If the AAC gets an $8 million ESPN tier 1/2 deal without a grant of rights and tier 3 options, this deal would be better than with tier 3 rights on ESPN+ so that key detail is wait and see.

It would also seem  to put the price of any Window 4 content  at a floor of $6 million (average per year).  The current BYU contract is at roughly $6 million and the AAC contract gets up to a $8.5 million number in two or three years.

I'm curious whether BYU can talk to Fox Sports and Comcast/NBC yet because Fox is motivated to spend and NBC already has Notre Dame so the Cougars could improve their chances of actually playing the Fighting Irish regularly.

Given that Hawaii and Boise State both have provisions that their rights are sold separately by the MW already (either as Tier 1/2 depending on how those terms are defined; I'd put Boise's as a Tier 1 package while Hawaii's rights arguably could be called Tier 1 or Tier 2). I'm curious whether other individual MW schools home broadcast rights are added to those which are sold separately.  San Diego State seems pretty obvious because Fox Sports wants to have Southern California football properties; I expect USC's home game rights to be sold in a manner like Boise State's are now in 2024ish to Fox.

 

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