Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Bruininthebay

American Athletic and ESPN do not reach agreement during exclusive negotiations for new TV deal

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

1991 Freedom Bowl:  Itty Bitty Tulsa 28, Sleeping Giant 17

 

Congrats??  :facepalm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:39 AM, #1Stunner said:

Why wouldn't Rice and SMU be interested in the WCC?

Both Rice and SMU have much more in common with the schools in the WCC, than they do some of the State Universities in the AAC.   You think SMU and Rice have anything in common with UCF, East Carolina, Memphis, USF, or Temple?????

 

They are both private, religious schools, with similar values.

The WCC offers them a home with similar institutions, that compete at the highest level of academics.  

Regarding travel, it isn't that hard to catch a flight from Houston or Dallas to California!   The AAC already requires very far travel, anyway.

 

If (when?) the AAC collapses by losing 2-4 schools to the Big 12, then I see SMU and Rice looking to the WCC as a safety net and a new home.  Tulsa and Tulane are probably less certain, since they are further east.

 

Stunner,  I don't think that any AAC or MWC schools will go to the B12 unless Texas leaves the conference.  Texas must control EVERYTHING and no one but the B12 will allow that. A larger B12 would be a threat to such control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, CaffeinatedCoog said:

 

I doubt the first season of the ACC Network will have much affect on the current availability of broadcast windows on the Disney Networks.  Most of the inventory slated to fill the ACC Network is third tier ACC content obtained from Raycom (that's why Raycom is pretty much history after this year).   ESPN may slide a few better games from their 1rst/2nd tier inventory to make the network easier to sell to cable operators--but these limited moves are NOT going to leave ESPN scrambling to fill 2 or 3  vacant broadcast windows each Saturday.  Im guessing Disney will have less than ten vacant slots to fill all season as a result of the ACC Network---and that number is probably way high.  The real number could  just 3 or 4...or even zero.    

You are absolutely correct.  The ACC Network will not open up any Saturday TV slots for AAC.  It is the Thursday and Friday ESPN slots that will open up. In my post that you are responding to, I did not say the ACC Network would open up Saturday tv slots for AAC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, 1066 said:

Stunner,  I don't think that any AAC or MWC schools will go to the B12 unless Texas leaves the conference.  Texas must control EVERYTHING and no one but the B12 will allow that. A larger B12 would be a threat to such control.

Discussion about teams going to the B12 in the future implies it has been raided, hence the need to backfill.  So you are correct, no schools will be going as long as Texas and Oklahoma are there.  However, if the top few schools were to leave as GOR expires...  

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/22/16350026/bob-bowlsby-big-12-commissioner-contract

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, jdgaucho said:

Congrats??  :facepalm:

Yes. In the short and unstoried history between the schools, including that one they've split the four games.

SDSU coach Al Lugenbill virtually gave that game to Tulsa by calling not just one, but two, unnecessary and unsuccessful onsides KOs. To their credit, Tulsa held one of the highest scoring teams in the country featuring future NFL MVP Marshall Faulk and future NFL All-Pro Darnay Scott to just 17 points.

Boom goes the dynamite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tulsa Guy said:

You are absolutely correct.  The ACC Network will not open up any Saturday TV slots for AAC.  It is the Thursday and Friday ESPN slots that will open up. In my post that you are responding to, I did not say the ACC Network would open up Saturday tv slots for AAC.

Your missing my point.  Saturday--Friday---Thursday---doesnt matter.  The content for the ACC Network isnt coming from content that was owned by ESPN in 2018.  Like all the other conference networks, the The ACC Network will be filled using third tier content.  In this case, the ACC Network will be filled using content obtained from Raycom.  Is it possible there may be a game or two here and there moved from the ESPN inventory to make the ACC Network more attractive?  Perhaps.  But if that happens, it will be a very limited move and will only open  a handful of ESPN broadcast windows over the course of the entire year.   Basically---the ACC Network is not going to have any significant effect on the existing distribution of Disney broadcast windows for college football.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point being missed is that 'third tier' Atlantic Coast and SEC content supplants whatever need ESPN had for the American 'first tier' content on Saturday in Windows 1, 2 and 3.  Fox, NBC and CBS are all more likely to purchase the American's rights than ESPN is because they can broadcast games in Saturday windows.  The exclusive negotiation period expired over 10 days ago and there is no news indicating ESPN did anything but wish Aresco et al good luck.

The Pac 12 Network creates a different situation for ESPN and the Mountain West because ESPN pays a lot for Window 4 content from the Pac 12.  The MW is the only alternative to the Pac 12 for Window 4 and, combined with hosting at least four bowl games in MW stadiums, there are unique circumstances that favor ESPN making a deal with the MW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
27 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

The point being missed is that 'third tier' Atlantic Coast and SEC content supplants whatever need ESPN had for the American 'first tier' content on Saturday in Windows 1, 2 and 3.  Fox, NBC and CBS are all more likely to purchase the American's rights than ESPN is because they can broadcast games in Saturday windows.  The exclusive negotiation period expired over 10 days ago and there is no news indicating ESPN did anything but wish Aresco et al good luck.

The Pac 12 Network creates a different situation for ESPN and the Mountain West because ESPN pays a lot for Window 4 content from the Pac 12.  The MW is the only alternative to the Pac 12 for Window 4 and, combined with hosting at least four bowl games in MW stadiums, there are unique circumstances that favor ESPN making a deal with the MW.

ESPN's programming options and alternatives for your so-called "Window 4" for college football.

 

PAC12 

BYU

BOISE

MWC

 

College basketball is obviously much larger.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

The point being missed is that 'third tier' Atlantic Coast and SEC content supplants whatever need ESPN had for the American 'first tier' content on Saturday in Windows 1, 2 and 3.  Fox, NBC and CBS are all more likely to purchase the American's rights than ESPN is because they can broadcast games in Saturday windows.  The exclusive negotiation period expired over 10 days ago and there is no news indicating ESPN did anything but wish Aresco et al good luck.

The Pac 12 Network creates a different situation for ESPN and the Mountain West because ESPN pays a lot for Window 4 content from the Pac 12.  The MW is the only alternative to the Pac 12 for Window 4 and, combined with hosting at least four bowl games in MW stadiums, there are unique circumstances that favor ESPN making a deal with the MW.

 

Jeez Louise---are you ever right?  Disney used AAC content to fill 32 ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU football windows in 2018.  As I explained before, 3rd tier content is used to fill conference networks.  The Pac12, Big10, SEC, and now the ACC--- all have conference networks.  That third tier content is spoken for.  The Big12 has a total of 10 tier 3 games---and most of those games are already spoken for.  There is no big treasure trove of unused tier 3 P5 football games just lying around for ESPN to use to fill those 32 AAC slots.   Furthermore---Disney used AAC content in 15 of their valuable ABC/ESPN windows.  Thats  about as often as they used Pac12 or Big12 content in those same flagship network broadcast windows.  That indicates that Disney not only needs the AAC content to fill holes---but they also find it a significant segment of that content to be of ABC/ESPN quality.  In stark contrast---the MW had ONE game on ESPN and ZERO on ABC. 

Now lets look at how ESPN used the MW.  The the Mountain West was used primarily by Disney to fill its lowest viewed broadcast window (late night) on its least viewed platform (ESPNU).   Economics come into play.  How much is it worth to fill the least watched window on the least watched network once 80% of the country is already in bed?  I suspect they can pay more than they are currently paying---but the reality is they cant pay a whole lot to fill that slot.  The economic ceiling is really low in that space.  ESPN can always just show a rerun of the Bama game or rerun Sports Center for nothing.  Given that 80% of the nation is asleep---its not a deal breaker for ESPN to show a rerun.  Or ESPN can start some lower end central time AAC games at 8:30 or 9pm, use BYU games, and grab the NM St package for virtually nothing to fill most of those slots.  Its erroneous to assume ESPN has no options.      

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, CaffeinatedCoog said:

Jeez Louise---are you ever right?  Disney used AAC content to fill 32 ABC/ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU football windows in 2018.  As I explained before, 3rd tier content is used to fill conference networks.  The Pac12, Big10, SEC, and now the ACC--- all have conference networks.  That third tier content is spoken for. 

Way to stumble out of the gate.  Given that you can only broadcast one game at a time on an ESPN run conference network and the Big Ten network, any 'overflow' will get placed in the window 1, 2 and 3 spots on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2 where they can earn the most advertiser revenue from viewership.  The SEC network doesn't show the best SEC game on ESPN/Disney and neither will the ACC network.  The ACC has a LOT of content and it is all in the eastern time zone - with the SEC network there is still a CBS deal for over the air games and central time zone teams while the ACC is exclusively Disney's so that is why the ACC network will have a bigger impact on the American than the SEC network in terms of affecting ESPN's need for any tier 1/2 content in Windows 1, 2 or 3.

Quote

The Big12 has a total of 10 tier 3 games---and most of those games are already spoken for.  There is no big treasure trove of unused tier 3 P5 football games just lying around for ESPN to use to fill those 32 AAC slots. 

My consideration is tier 1/2 when talking about a media rights deal because over the air and on ESPN or ESPN2 are where the viewers are.  The Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac 12 are paid high dollar amounts to put their tier 1/2 games on either ESPN or Fox now.  Arguably the Big 12's ability to sell tier 3 rights to RSNs has been beneficial but tier 3 is not where the significant financial value is when talking about a media rights deal   Windows 1, 2 and 3 are for tier 1 and 2 content - not tier 3.  ESPN + is for tier 3.  

Quote

  Furthermore---Disney used AAC content in 15 of their valuable ABC/ESPN windows.  Thats  about as often as they used Pac12 or Big12 content in those same flagship network broadcast windows.  That indicates that Disney not only needs the AAC content to fill holes---but they also find it a significant segment of that content to be of ABC/ESPN quality.  In stark contrast---the MW had ONE game on ESPN and ZERO on ABC. 

CBS Sports has been the primary rights holder of the Mountain West since the inception of the Mountain West network mid-aughts; the MW doesn't stand in stark contrast due to the American being an exclusive ESPN property.  The American's exclusive era on ESPN  is ending in the near future because a renewal would have been announced during the exclusive negotiating window that expired March 2.   MW fans learned a lot about how to find CBS Sports and look forward to never watching it again.  CBS would be great if you get over the air games so hopefully an American deal with CBS would include a provision to be shown on CBS itself occasionally.

Quote

Now lets look at how ESPN used the MW.  The the Mountain West was used primarily by Disney to fill its lowest viewed broadcast window (late night) on its least viewed platform (ESPNU).   Economics come into play.  How much is worth to fill the least watched window on the least watched network once 80% of the country is already in bed?  I suspect they can pay more than they are currently paying---but the reality is they cant pay that much.  The economic ceiling is really low in that space.  ESPN can always just show a rerun of the Bama game or Sports Center for nothing.  Given that 80% of the nation is asleep---its not a deal breaker for ESPN to show a rerun.  Or ESPN can start some lower end AAC games at 8:30 or 9pm, use BYU games, and grab the NM St package for virtually nothing to fill most of those slots.  Its erroneous to assume ESPN has no options.      

All MW content that is not a Boise State home game is sublicensed from CBS Sports.  To repeat, ESPN pays extra to pick up MW games that are not Boise home game from the primary rights holder CBS Sports because they can earn more for broadcasting that game than the primary rights holder can.  The frequent occurrence of this practice over the years indicates that ESPN probably would be interested in becoming the primary rights holder where they would not have to give CBS a cut when they choose to broadcast a MW game.

BYU's poor performance on the field obviously makes the Mountain West way more appealing because the majority of teams in the MW are better than the Cougars in any given year during their independent era.  Fox will have interest in the Cougars because they want to advertise to those households already and NBC might want to pare them with Notre Dame (MIGHT) but if ESPN wanted to renew with BYU they would have done it already.

New Mexico State is an auto-win for Pac 12 and MW schools every year in their independent era.  Why would ESPN care to broadcast a blowout game of a bad team when it can broadcast a competitive MW or Pac 12 game?  ESPN broadcasts the best competition available - evident from their willingness to sublicense MW games from time to time despite the significant payment to a competing sports network.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
2 hours ago, Bruininthebay said:

Way to stumble out of the gate.  Given that you can only broadcast one game at a time on an ESPN run conference network and the Big Ten network, any 'overflow' will get placed in the window 1, 2 and 3 spots on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2 where they can earn the most advertiser revenue from viewership.  The SEC network doesn't show the best SEC game on ESPN/Disney and neither will the ACC network.  The ACC has a LOT of content and it is all in the eastern time zone - with the SEC network there is still a CBS deal for over the air games and central time zone teams while the ACC is exclusively Disney's so that is why the ACC network will have a bigger impact on the American than the SEC network in terms of affecting ESPN's need for any tier 1/2 content in Windows 1, 2 or 3.

My consideration is tier 1/2 when talking about a media rights deal because over the air and on ESPN or ESPN2 are where the viewers are.  The Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac 12 are paid high dollar amounts to put their tier 1/2 games on either ESPN or Fox now.  Arguably the Big 12's ability to sell tier 3 rights to RSNs has been more beneficial but tier 3 is not where the significant financial value is when talking about a media rights deal   Windows 1, 2 and 3 are for tier 1 and 2 content - not tier 3.  ESPN + is for tier 3.  

CBS Sports has been the primary rights holder of the Mountain West since the inception of the Mountain West network mid-aughts.  The MW doesn't stand in stark contrast due to the American being an exclusive ESPN property.  The American's exclusive era on ESPN  is ending in the near future   MW fans learned a lot about how to find CBS Sports and look forward to never watching it again.  CBS would be great if you get over the air games so hopefully an American deal with CBS would include a provision to be shown on CBS itself occasionally.

All MW content that is not a Boise State home game is sublicensed from CBS Sports.  To repeat, ESPN pays extra to pick up MW games that are not Boise home game from the primary rights holder CBS Sports because they can earn more for broadcasting that game than the primary rights holder can.  The frequent occurrence of this practice over the years indicates that ESPN probably would be interested in becoming the primary rights holder where they would not have to give CBS a cut when they choose to broadcast a MW game.

BYU's poor performance on the field obviously makes the Mountain West way more appealing because the majority of teams in the MW are better than the Cougars in any given year during their independent era.  Fox will have interest in the Cougars because they want to advertise to those households already and NBC might want to pare them with Notre Dame (MIGHT) but if ESPN wanted to renew with BYU they would have done it already.

New Mexico State is an auto-win for Pac 12 and MW schools every year in their independent era.  Why would ESPN care to broadcast a blowout game of a bad team when it can broadcast a competitive MW or Pac 12 game?  ESPN broadcasts the best competition available - evident from their willingness to sublicense MW games from time to time despite the significant payment to a competing sports network.

 

^^^^ Continuing a long tradition of saying a whole lot of words to express nonsense....

With regard to BYU, Tom Holmoe said that he is currently in negotiations with ESPN, and that BYU expects to renew their deal.   You conclusion that ESPN isn't going to renew, because they "would have done so already" is poor logic, and incorrect.

BYU, the MWC, the AAC, are all redoing their deals right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

With regard to BYU, Tom Holmoe said that he is currently in negotiations with ESPN, and that BYU expects to renew their deal.   You conclusion that ESPN isn't going to renew, because they "would have done so already" is poor logic, and incorrect.

Tom Holmoe is optimistic about lots of things - including a new deal with ESPN and scheduling games against Notre Dame.   Neither have come to fruition; what is debatable is which is less likely to occur.  Personally I think optimistic BYU fans should look forward to BYU TV broadcasts and either Fox Sports or NBC Sports.  Utah, Boise State and Utah State road games are going to be when BYU gets on ESPN post 2020 - unless BYU somehow becomes bowl eligible again.

Tom Holmoe talked about a new tv deal last June. 

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2018/06/22/byus-tom-holmoe-is-confident-about-making-deals-with-espn-and-notre-dame/ 

  That isn't recent in my understanding of the word's meaning but the quotes existence supports my point that if ESPN wanted to get a deal renewed they would have done so already because Tom Holmoe hoped to do so as early as June 2018.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

Tom Holmoe is optimistic about lots of things - including a new deal with ESPN and scheduling games against Notre Dame.   Neither have come to fruition; what is debatable is which is less likely occur.  Personally I think optimistic BYU fans should look forward to BYU TV broadcasts and either Fox Sports or NBC Sports.  Utah, Boise State and Utah State road games are going to be when BYU gets on ESPN post 2020 - unless BYU somehow becomes bowl eligible again.

The last article I can find quoting Tom Holmoe about a new tv deal is from last June.  https://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2018/06/22/byus-tom-holmoe-is-confident-about-making-deals-with-espn-and-notre-dame/  That isn't recent in my understanding of the word's meaning but the quotes existence supports my point that if ESPN wanted to get a deal renewed they would have done so already because Tom Holmoe hoped to do so as early as June 2018.

 

So, using that logic---what does it mean that the MW was offered an extension at the current price over a year ago and hasnt been able to get a deal?  Surely, if the demand for those late games was as ripe as you claim--these networks should be falling all over themselves to pay whatever Thompson is asking---right?   Instead--Thompson has been talking about taking all the games digital--perhaps even on the MW's own digital network.  Hmmmm....maybe you're just using faulty logic.....yet again.   I think the reality is ESPN basically sees little reason to make their best offer until the property is about to exit the exclusive negotiating phase and enter the open market.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, CaffeinatedCoog said:

 

So, using that logic---what does it mean that the MW was offered an extension at the current price over a year ago and hasnt been able to get a deal?  Surely, if the demand for those late games was as ripe as you claim--these networks should be falling all over themselves to pay whatever Thompson is asking---right?   Instead--Thompson has been talking about taking all the games digital--perhaps even on the MW's own digital network.  Hmmmm....maybe you're just using faulty logic.....yet again.   

The MW told it's media partners that renewing at the current price wasn't what they are looking to do.  It is also clear that both CBS and ESPN are interested in MW rights based on their offer to renew.

http://www.coloradoan.com/videos/sports/csu/football/2017/07/29/mw-weighs-tv-digital-options-commissioner-says/104107574/ 

CT's point in discussing streaming was to make clear that there are more bidders than their used to be for media rights because streaming is a developing technology.  CT didn't say "The MW is going digital' but he did state to a reporter from the Coloradoan (in the summer of 2017 which pre-dates ESPN/Disney's acquisition of BAMTech/MLB Advanced Media) that change is occuring in the media rights market so there is no rush to make a deal until things sort themselves out.  He used the phrase 'keep our powder dry' and simply mentioned a couple of the FAANG's as examples of companies entering the market for media rights.

Recently Amazon acquired a partial ownership interest in the YES network so it is the case that new companies are acquiring the rights to stream/broadcast sports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
20 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

Tom Holmoe is optimistic about lots of things - including a new deal with ESPN and scheduling games against Notre Dame.   Neither have come to fruition; what is debatable is which is less likely occur.  Personally I think optimistic BYU fans should look forward to BYU TV broadcasts and either Fox Sports or NBC Sports.  Utah, Boise State and Utah State road games are going to be when BYU gets on ESPN post 2020 - unless BYU somehow becomes bowl eligible again.

Tom Holmoe talked about a new tv deal last June. 

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2018/06/22/byus-tom-holmoe-is-confident-about-making-deals-with-espn-and-notre-dame/ 

  That isn't recent in my understanding of the word's meaning but the quotes existence supports my point that if ESPN wanted to get a deal renewed they would have done so already because Tom Holmoe hoped to do so as early as June 2018.

 

Again... BYU, MWC, AAC are all negotiating their TV deals right now.

Just because they are not done yet, is not some sort of evidence that ESPN is not re-signing.

Bowl Eligible again?  BYU just went to the Potato.

I'd think you are trolling, but experience shows you are really this dense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

experience shows you are really this dense.

Didn't you just spend two pages of posts speculating on the basis that Rice and Tulane are religious universities?

I can't help your ability to comprehend words composed in paragraphs but the fact that I explain my reasoning doesn't make me 'dense' in a pejorative sense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
7 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

Didn't you just spend two pages of posts speculating on the basis that Rice and Tulane are religious universities?

I'm sorry I can't help your ability to comprehend words composed in paragraphs but the fact that I explain my reasoning doesn't make me 'dense' in a pejorative sense. 

Much of what is said on this board goes completely over your head.

Did you really think I was serious when I said Rice, Tulane, and SMU are expansion candidates for the WCC???   It's obvious you weren't part of the conversation, and any jokes went completely over your head.

Again... You have amazing ability to spout complete nonsense on here, including your assertion that ESPN has turned down TV contracts for BYU, Boise and the AAC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

The MW told it's media partners that renewing at the current price wasn't what they are looking to do.  It is also clear that both CBS and ESPN are interested in MW rights based on their offer to renew.

http://www.coloradoan.com/videos/sports/csu/football/2017/07/29/mw-weighs-tv-digital-options-commissioner-says/104107574/ 

CT's point in discussing streaming was to make clear that there are more bidders than their used to be for media rights because streaming is a developing technology.  CT didn't say "The MW is going digital' but he did state to a reporter from the Coloradoan (in the summer of 2017 which pre-dates ESPN/Disney's acquisition of BAMTech/MLB Advanced Media) that change is occuring in the media rights market so there is no rush to make a deal until things sort themselves out.  He used the phrase 'keep our powder dry' and simply mentioned a couple of the FAANG's as examples of companies entering the market for media rights.

Recently Amazon acquired a partial ownership interest in the YES network so it is the case that new companies are acquiring the rights to stream/broadcast sports.

 

Swing and a miss.  You failed to address the question put to you.  They had over a year and havnt signed an upgraded deal.  According to your OWN logic it means there is no demand above the current price.  Thats your logic---not mine.  Point being---your logic is simply wrong headed.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, CaffeinatedCoog said:

They had over a year and havnt signed an upgraded deal.  According to your OWN logic it means there is no demand above the current price.  Thats your logic---not mine.  Point being---your logic is simply wrong headed.  

You fail to understand my argument and Craig Thompson's statement in 2017 which was recorded and linked in a video I posted already for you. 

You are paraphrasing me incorrectly. My own logic does not rest on any assumption that the MW is having negotiations for their media rights at the present time or during the past year and a half.  Per CT in the video I linked already the MW told its media partners they didn't want to renew the current deal in 2017 and would see where things stand in 2019 before conducting discussions about a new deal.

If the MW doesn't want to negotiate, then what 'logic' causes you to believe that discussions are occurring?  There is nothing to indicate that the MW is having discussions at the present time about its media rights, nor did I ever state that there are.

On the other hand, in the OP it is clear that the American seeks to renew its current exclusive agreement with ESPN.  Now it is the middle of March and no agreement has been announced.  Each passing day it is increasingly clear that no deal was reached during the exclusive negotiation period between ESPN and the American because an announcement would have been made to reflect that by now.

Given that the American clearly seeks to renew, logically either ESPN doesn't want to pay the price the American seeks or simply doesn't need the content because ESPN already has media rights that are a better alternative.

The MW and the American appear to be pursuing vastly different approaches in obtaining revenue for their media rights.   The MW told its media partners it doesn't want the old deal they offer while the American is asking it's media partners to renew their old deal at a higher price.  It is illogical to think that speculation about one applies to speculation about the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...