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GoState99755

A BIG F U to the Gays from the wyo legislature.

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52 minutes ago, Jackrabbit said:

Many students attending while this went down said that it was more about a shitty drug deal than being gay.  The victim knew his killers pretty well. 

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This is a controversial book out on this event.  Stephen Jimenez is a journalist from New York that came to Laramie to write about the incident and during his investigation he was surprised to find that the media was misrepresenting the reasons for the death, etc.  He decided to stay and write a book about the event, based upon what he was uncovering.  I've not read the book.  Mr. Jimenez was in Laramie during the anniversary event this past year.

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4 minutes ago, pokebball said:

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This is a controversial book out on this event.  Stephen Jimenez is a journalist from New York that came to Laramie to write about the incident and during his investigation he was surprised to find that the media was misrepresenting the reasons for the death, etc.  He decided to stay and write a book about the event, based upon what he was uncovering.  I've not read the book.  Mr. Jimenez was in Laramie during the anniversary event this past year.

I read it after being told by Wyovanian and HR Poke that me accepting the traditional media interpretation was not correct. It's a pretty convincing read. Matt was heavily involved in the drug subculture of Laramie and Fort Collins and definitely knew his killers well. You all know I'm a card-carrying liberal, but I have to say that the media version of this murder was, at the least, a pretty drastic oversimplification.

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11 minutes ago, pokebball said:

51XhEpSbIvL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

This is a controversial book out on this event.  Stephen Jimenez is a journalist from New York that came to Laramie to write about the incident and during his investigation he was surprised to find that the media was misrepresenting the reasons for the death, etc.  He decided to stay and write a book about the event, based upon what he was uncovering.  I've not read the book.  Mr. Jimenez was in Laramie during the anniversary event this past year.

Didn't one of the lawyers for the murderers use as part of the defense that he was killed because he came on to him? 

 

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3 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

Didn't one of the lawyers for the murderers use as part of the defense that he was killed because he came on to him? 

 

Yes. But there was a lot more to the relationship between the two than that. You could almost argue that the murder involved self-hatred as much as anything else.

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1 minute ago, Bob said:

Exactly. The point isn't that people want and do hate gays, it's the Wyoming is anti-legislation of any sort. And I think it's that people fool that gays are already treated fairly and why do we need a piece of legislation to prove it?

A blanket statement that "the gays" are already treated fairly always makes me cringe/laugh a little. It is almost always by people who haven't talked to a gay person in 5 years. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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17 hours ago, GoState99755 said:

 

So...does wyo still try to call themselves the “Equality State?”

 

My wife asks this question often during the legislative session. We were the first to allow women to vote and we have been trying to make up for it ever since.(I kid)

I would say Wyoming isn't the most gay friendly place but I think there are worse places because there is a live and let live attitude that is pretty prevelant here but there it could still be a scary place to be. But  as happy has said there are places it isn't bad.  I live in Cheyenne and I think we are pretty gay friendly. One of my best friends is gay and while there isn't a big gay scene(more like a small pretty close knit group) most everyone in town is accepting. But I shouldn't speak for him because I am sure he has faced things I don't know about or haven't noticed.

But I am not surprised that the legislature couldn't pass this. Because even if the people are more accepting the lawmakers are more old school and lagging behind.

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Just now, Old_SD_Dude said:

Yes. But there was a lot more to the relationship between the two than that.

I'm sure.  Every crime has many layers.  I'm sure the press oversimplified it.  But I thought it telling and interesting that one of their defense lawyers would use that tactic. 

I think it's a quantum leap from being upset over an unwanted advance, to homicidal rage.

But I haven't read that book.  Do you recommend that book?

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8 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

Didn't one of the lawyers for the murderers use as part of the defense that he was killed because he came on to him? 

 

I honestly don't know.  But from the day of the murder, the press was portraying it as an anti gay act.

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Just now, Boise fan said:

I'm sure.  Every crime has many layers.  I'm sure the press oversimplified it.  But I thought it telling and interesting that one of their defense lawyers would use that tactic. 

I think it's a quantum leap from being upset over an unwanted advance, to homicidal rage.

But I haven't read that book.  Do you recommend that book?

Definitely. One book review referred to is as a "Mountain West Roshomon."

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2 minutes ago, pokebball said:

I honestly don't know.  But from the day of the murder, the press was portraying it as an anti gay act.

It went national iirc.  International, actually.

I'm going off memory, and I recall that Shepard was targeted because he was gay - for robbery I mean.  And I mentioned the defense lawyer tactic.  It makes sense that it would appear to be hate motivated.  I think I'll pick up that book though, as it would definitely provide more insight.

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Just now, Bob said:

OK. whatever you say. I mean I don't go out of my way to have interactions with gay people, but I do know a few and they seem happy in Wyoming. If they eren't happy I'm sure they would have moved ages ago.

 

And why are gays a protected class, anyway? What legislation is on the books that discriminates against them? It's not necessary anymore.

Sexual orientation is not a protected class at the federal level. 

Why should they be?  Why are any of the other classes protected?  That will answer your question, I think.

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4 minutes ago, Bob said:

No. There are no existing laws or prejudices that would hinder their well being

There doesn't have to be existing laws that would hinder their well being.  Just the absence of laws to protect them.

In a number of states, Idaho included, a person can openly discriminate against someone they deem to be homosexual and get away with it.  That includes minor things like not wanting to bake a cake, to denying them employment and housing. 

How would you feel if people in a state didn't want to offer a job or housing to you because you were Bob?  Doesn't seem right, does it?

That's happened.  And continues to happen.  That's why they should be a protected class.  And in this instance it should be federal so certain states can't sidestep it.  Like Idaho and apparently Wyoming.

 

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3 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

Sexual orientation is not a protected class at the federal level. 

This is a significant reason given by those opposing state legislation.  I don't understand all of it, but apparently there can be some issues between state and federal adjudication and enforcement.

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1 minute ago, pokebball said:

This is a significant reason given by those opposing state legislation.  I don't understand all of it, but apparently there can be some issues between state and federal adjudication and enforcement.

Hmm.  That's interesting.  I haven't heard much about this.  Would you elaborate, and can you direct me to info on this?  Genuinely interested.

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10 hours ago, GoState99755 said:

 

To insinuate wyo is as progressive as Calif is disingenuous.

 

To suggest that a state has to rush to pass a bill that wasn't particularly liked by either side to be "progressive" is absurd. In fact, suggesting that Wyoming (or anyone outside of California) wants to be as "progressive" as California is absurd. 

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3 hours ago, happycamper said:

A blanket statement that "the gays" are already treated fairly always makes me cringe/laugh a little. It is almost always by people who haven't talked to a gay person in 5 years. 

Wrong again. It happens all the time in public. You just don’t know it unless you have good gaydar. 😜

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