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TheTedfordTrain

BYU- Success Since Going Independent

BYU- Success since Going Independent?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. How many MWC Championships Would They Have in Football/Basketball if they didn’t go Independent?

    • Zero
    • Zero- Coming close a couple times
    • Zero- Never Even Getting close.


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Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, Bob said:

I was going to see where BYU sits in their conference standings, but I couldn't even remember the name of their conference LOL! :rotflmfao:

BYU is in the WCC....  the Conference that Gonzaga determined is better than the MWC, and the conference that is currently ranked higher than the MWC.

You are probably just used to comparing the MWC with lower conferences that are more on it's level.  

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9 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

BYU is in the WCC....  the Conference that Gonzaga determined is better than the MWC, and the conference that is currently ranked higher than the MWC.

You are probably just used to comparing the MWC will lower conferences that are more on it's level.  

cha ching...The Zags thank you

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All right. Since the "Pac12 is in more trouble than you think" thread devolved into a debate over pulling the cord vs. continuing to subscribe to cable/satellite TV, I'll bite.

Anybody knows how to use google can confirm there has been significant discussion of the Zona schools leaving the P12 for the B12. And if they look closely, they can see that everybody with a connection to the P12 doesn't want to see that happen. Here's an example: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/22/answering-the-latest-expansion-buzz-why-the-arizona-schools-wont-join-the-big-12/

The only thing everyone agrees on is that at least until 2023 when the P12 will again have a shot at getting its network broadcast on DirecTV (or FoxBusinessChannel? lol), nothing will happen. And it probably won't happen even that year since those schools would be nuts to decide to join the B12 until they see if expiration of the GOR results in OU, UT and/or KU leaving for what would be much more academically prestigious and slightly more financially lucrative digs.

Based on the above, my .02 is this.

1. The P12 is indeed in trouble. In just eight years it has gone from looking like it would add Oklahoma and Texas and situate itself as equal to the SEC and B1G among power conferences while destroying the B12 as such to consistently having the least income and least success in the sports which matter among the P5. We all criticize Craig Thompson and rightly so but how in the world does Larry Scott still have his $4.5M job? So my first expectation is that whenever Scott stops satisfying the presidents of Oregon State and Washington State, his allegedly biggest supporters, he will be gone.

2. If, with or without Scott, the P12 remains in trouble for five more years, the Arizona schools, which have a lot more in common culturally with the B12 than the P12, will seriously consider leaving.

3. If ASU and Arizona join the B12 and if BYU continues to employ incompetent Tom Holmoe as its AD, there is no chance of them being considered for B12 membership.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

What is it that Ute fans call Arizona basketball again?  U of Pay?  I'm surprised their coach still has a job.  Is the FBI thing still going on?

Oregon football will be interesting...  They were really good a few years ago.   It's also weird that USC hasn't been better.  They should be Alabama level.

As I said, everyone associated with the P12 in some way, shape or form has been bending over backwards to refute facts showing its stature has markedly diminished.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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18 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

 

The only thing everyone agrees on is that at least until 2023 when the P12 will again have a shot at getting its network broadcast on DirecTV (or FoxBusinessChannel? lol), nothing will happen. And it probably won't happen even that year since those schools would be nuts to decide to join the B12 until they see if expiration of the GOR results in OU, UT and/or KU leaving for what would be much more academically prestigious and slightly more financially lucrative digs.

 

Just to clear something up...this is conflating two different issues.  the P12N inability to secure a distribution agreement with Directv has nothing to do with the expiration of the TV rights deals.  The rights deals are with Fox and Disney.  P12N could theoretically cut a distribution deal with DTV at any time.....if DTV ever came back to the table (doesnt look promising) and/or P12N lowered their demands (unlikely, since doing so would affect all their other distribution deals).

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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warning....opinion alert.....

 

 

I dont think another seismic realignment shift is coming.  I think the different variables at play are going to more or less lock schools into place, for better or worse.

 

 

But we probably know something before the Pac 12 and Big 12 deals are close to expiring..  Because the Big 10 holds the keys to the door to realignment, and their TV deal expires first.  And for a lot of reasons, I think the Big 10 is going to stand pat at 14.

In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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3 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

I was talking about TV money and fan support.

But PAC12 is also not competing athletically with the P5 anymore.  There are dozens of articles from national outlets raising the alarm.

 

You’re still so salty about big brother leaving you that you can’t hide it if you tried.  Pathetic. 

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2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

BYU is in the WCC....  the Conference that Gonzaga determined is better than the MWC, and the conference that is currently ranked higher than the MWC.

You are probably just used to comparing the MWC with lower conferences that are more on it's level.  

Wrong. Better for them does not mean a better conference. Sweetheart deal while racking up W’s vs lousy teams like BYU is hard to leave. BYU was 1-3 vs the MWC this year. Gonzaga will also leave soon. It’s just a matter of time. 

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I think people have made a lot of interesting points about the Big 12 having appeal to Arizona schools.  My thought is that it seems to be a BIG assumption that both Arizona schools have the same goals and objectives from their membership in the Pac 12 because my impression is that 'U of Pay' sees itself as the better academic school to ASU because of its AAU membership.  It seems more plausible to me that Arizona State would move to the Big 12 to differentiate itself from the Wildcats as a 'football' school because it appears that the Big 12 will have a significant presence in Texas. 

Many Pac 12 alumni/administrators believe that the conference is like the Ivy League (an academic brand unified in the same athletic competitions).  I don't think that the Pac 12 is that exalted as a conference academically (University of California and Cal State schools in the Big West are probably cumulatively more prestigious than the non-California Pac 12 schools) but I do think that their is cohesion based on similar academic missions at most Pac 12 universities (ASU's online education being the most significant deviation).

Other posters have already pointed out that the Big 12 media rights have exceeded the Pac 12's current revenues and that trend probably will continue. In five or six years it's possible that ASU decides to pursue Big 12 membership to emphasize being a 'football' school - especially if they have a large online enrollment in big 12 states (ASU is the only Pac 12 school which has more non-traditional online students than traditional students).  Uof A is a traditional university with a traditional AAU method of education (in person) and they value their association with California AAU universities more than ASU does).

Finally, I read Jon Wilner regularly and I subscribe to his podcast about Pac 12 football.  He is one of the only journalists who focuses exclusively on the Pac 12 and as a result he's become particularly negative about west coast football and expansion in general.  I think that he overlooks the many positive things happening at Mountain West schools as they demonstrate they can compete at the same level as Pac 12 schools (probably from an editorial dictate not to cover SJSU as much as he used to) despite most of the positive/encouraging developments in west coast intercollegiate athletics happening in the MW (and the WCC to a lesser degree).

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Guest #1Stunner
16 minutes ago, TheTedfordTrain said:

You’re still so salty about big brother leaving you that you can’t hide it if you tried.  Pathetic. 

You still chasing me around the board?  Pathetic.

Go start another SJSU vs Fresneck thread.

 

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Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, RSF said:

warning....opinion alert.....

 

 

I dont think another seismic realignment shift is coming.  I think the different variables at play are going to more or less lock schools into place, for better or worse.

 

 

But we probably know something before the Pac 12 and Big 12 deals are close to expiring..  Because the Big 10 holds the keys to the door to realignment, and their TV deal expires first.  And for a lot of reasons, I think the Big 10 is going to stand pat at 14.

I agree with your take.  

I think it's set in stone for a while.

USC football might be a wildcard.  They could easily follow ND's path and make more money that way.

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Guest #1Stunner
14 minutes ago, TheTedfordTrain said:

Wrong. Better for them does not mean a better conference. Sweetheart deal while racking up W’s vs lousy teams like BYU is hard to leave. BYU was 1-3 vs the MWC this year. Gonzaga will also leave soon. It’s just a matter of time. 

The WCC has a school in Stockton, which is a similar town to Fresno.

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Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

All right. Since the "Pac12 is in more trouble than you think" thread devolved into a debate over pulling the cord vs. continuing to subscribe to cable/satellite TV, I'll bite.

Anybody knows how to use google can confirm there has been significant discussion of the Zona schools leaving the P12 for the B12. And if they look closely, they can see that everybody with a connection to the P12 doesn't want to see that happen. Here's an example: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/22/answering-the-latest-expansion-buzz-why-the-arizona-schools-wont-join-the-big-12/

The only thing everyone agrees on is that at least until 2023 when the P12 will again have a shot at getting its network broadcast on DirecTV (or FoxBusinessChannel? lol), nothing will happen. And it probably won't happen even that year since those schools would be nuts to decide to join the B12 until they see if expiration of the GOR results in OU, UT and/or KU leaving for what would be much more academically prestigious and slightly more financially lucrative digs.

Based on the above, my .02 is this.

1. The P12 is indeed in trouble. In just eight years it has gone from looking like it would add Oklahoma and Texas and situate itself as equal to the SEC and B1G among power conferences while destroying the B12 as such to consistently having the least income and least success in the sports which matter among the P5. We all criticize Craig Thompson and rightly so but how in the world does Larry Scott still have his $4.5M job? So my first expectation is that whenever Scott stops satisfying the presidents of Oregon State and Washington State, his allegedly biggest supporters, he will be gone.

2. If, with or without Scott, the P12 remains in trouble for five more years, the Arizona schools, which have a lot more in common culturally with the B12 than the P12, will seriously consider leaving.

3. If ASU and Arizona join the B12 and if BYU continues to employ incompetent Tom Holmoe as its AD, there is no chance of them being considered for B12 membership.

I don't think the Big12 wants to expand.

No need, now that schools can hold a conference championship in football with 10 schools.   Also, the Big12 owns their own tier 3 TV rights, so expansion for TV isn't really necessary.

If the Big12 ever expands again, I think it is only to add a former member---Missouri, Nebraska, or Colorado.

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Guest #1Stunner
6 minutes ago, TheTedfordTrain said:

You chased me into my own thread. Idiot. 

Except.... I didn't bother even responding to your thread... You got upset, and started responding to my posts about other Conferences, to other posters.  Need attention much???

Be gone.  The adults were talking without you...

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1 hour ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

All right. Since the "Pac12 is in more trouble than you think" thread devolved into a debate over pulling the cord vs. continuing to subscribe to cable/satellite TV, I'll bite.

Anybody knows how to use google can confirm there has been significant discussion of the Zona schools leaving the P12 for the B12. And if they look closely, they can see that everybody with a connection to the P12 doesn't want to see that happen. Here's an example: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/22/answering-the-latest-expansion-buzz-why-the-arizona-schools-wont-join-the-big-12/

The only thing everyone agrees on is that at least until 2023 when the P12 will again have a shot at getting its network broadcast on DirecTV (or FoxBusinessChannel? lol), nothing will happen. And it probably won't happen even that year since those schools would be nuts to decide to join the B12 until they see if expiration of the GOR results in OU, UT and/or KU leaving for what would be much more academically prestigious and slightly more financially lucrative digs.

Based on the above, my .02 is this.

1. The P12 is indeed in trouble. In just eight years it has gone from looking like it would add Oklahoma and Texas and situate itself as equal to the SEC and B1G among power conferences while destroying the B12 as such to consistently having the least income and least success in the sports which matter among the P5. We all criticize Craig Thompson and rightly so but how in the world does Larry Scott still have his $4.5M job? So my first expectation is that whenever Scott stops satisfying the presidents of Oregon State and Washington State, his allegedly biggest supporters, he will be gone.

2. If, with or without Scott, the P12 remains in trouble for five more years, the Arizona schools, which have a lot more in common culturally with the B12 than the P12, will seriously consider leaving.

3. If ASU and Arizona join the B12 and if BYU continues to employ incompetent Tom Holmoe as its AD, there is no chance of them being considered for B12 membership.

As long as byu* is owned by the Mormon church, there is no chance of them being considered for any P5 membership.

#toomuchbaggage

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16 minutes ago, Bruininthebay said:

I think people have made a lot of interesting points about the Big 12 having appeal to Arizona schools.  My thought is that it seems to be a BIG assumption that both Arizona schools have the same goals and objectives from their membership in the Pac 12 because my impression is that 'U of Pay' sees itself as the better academic school to ASU because of its AAU membership.  It seems more plausible to me that Arizona State would move to the Big 12 to differentiate itself from the Wildcats as a 'football' school because it appears that the Big 12 will have a significant presence in Texas. 

Many Pac 12 alumni/administrators believe that the conference is like the Ivy League (an academic brand unified in the same athletic competitions).  I don't think that the Pac 12 is that exalted as a conference academically (University of California and Cal State schools in the Big West are probably cumulatively more prestigious than the non-California Pac 12 schools) but I do think that 

Other posters have already pointed out that the Big 12 media rights have exceeded the Pac 12's current revenues and that trend probably will continue. In five or six years it's possible that ASU decides to pursue Big 12 membership to emphasize being a 'football' school - especially if they have a large online enrollment in big 12 states (ASU is the only Pac 12 school which has more non-traditional online students than traditional students).  Uof A is a traditional university with a traditional AAU method of education (in person) and they value their association with California AAU universities more than ASU does).

Finally, I read Jon Wilner regularly and I subscribe to his podcast about Pac 12 football.  He is one of the only journalists who focuses exclusively on the Pac 12 and as a result he's become particularly negative about west coast football and expansion in general.  I think that he overlooks the many positive things happening at Mountain West schools as they demonstrate they can compete at the same level as Pac 12 schools (probably from an editorial dictate not to cover SJSU as much as he used to) despite most of the positive/encouraging developments in west coast intercollegiate athletics happening in the MW (and the WCC to a lesser degree).

I have a hard time seeing ASU join the Big 12 unless they park their Olympic sports somewhere else especially with West Virginia being in the league.

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Just now, Wyovanian said:

As long as byu* is owned by the Mormon church, there is no chance of them being considered for any P5 membership.

Wrong.  They have tradition and a lot of fans.  There is a pecking order and BYU is probably ahead of most of the MW for joining a P5. 

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2 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Except.... I didn't bother even responding to your thread... You got upset, and started responding to my posts about other Conferences, to other posters.  Need attention much???

Be gone.  The adults were talking without you...

You made several idiotic comments in my thread. They needed to be addressed. I shouldn’t be surprised. Idiot and Stunner are becoming synonymous. 

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Just now, RamSack said:

Wrong.  They have tradition and a lot of fans.  There is a pecking order and BYU is probably ahead of most of the MW for joining a P5. 

Obviously you don't understand the political dynamics of most universities. There is NO WAY they get a majority of P5 presidents in ANY conference to vote byu* in. They can't even hold their own against students and faculty over controversial guest speakers.

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