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Jackrabbit

Convince Me

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38 minutes ago, Jackrabbit said:

Anyone who won't answer a question usually wont like the answer.

Nah. You just think everyone is stupid enough to believe you’re being sincere. If you still support Trump you clearly rationalize his ridiculous behavior and won’t believe otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Jackrabbit said:

I want someone to convince me that all this viceral hatred of Trump is somehow rational

Please avoid rhetoric that can apply to both sides.  

Your question betrays your intention.  

vis·cer·al
/ˈvis(ə)rəl/Submit
adjective
relating to the viscera.
"the visceral nervous system"
relating to deep inward feelings rather than to the intellect.
"the voters' visceral fear of change"

ra·tion·al
/ˈraSH(ə)n(ə)l/Submit
adjective
1. based on or in accordance with reason or logic.
"I'm sure there's a perfectly rational explanation"
synonyms:    logical, reasoned, well reasoned, sensible, reasonable, cogent, coherent, intelligent, wise, judicious, sagacious, astute, shrewd, perceptive, enlightened, clear-eyed, clear-sighted, commonsensical, common-sense, well advised, well grounded, sound, sober, prudent, circumspect, politic; More

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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  • His rhetoric has single handedly made populism more powerful in the US
  • He actively revitalized hate movements
  • His political appointees tend to be abject disasters to the point that Sessions looked reasonable
  • His governing style removes so many norms that typically restrict the President from being the kind of autocratic disaster many people fear that the spectre of future Presidents, who are actually politically effective, having that kind of power is terrifying (no matter their platforms)
  • His trade politics do not understand the issues at play and seem to be actively undermining his stated objectives
  • His spend and cut taxes economic policy is somehow more reckless than FRICKIN OBAMA AND BUSH, HOW DO YOU EVEN DO THAT
  • His criminal justice platform is essentially "go back to the '80s and try all the stuff that caused our modern prisoner and structural racism issues of today" - unclear how much was him and how much is just the people around him
  • Does not seem to understand the importance of governing vs campaigning - this has been a problem for a while, but Trump is so far the apex of the "great at campaigning/falls on his face at governing" duality we've been subject to as a nation
  • He's a rich kid whose daddy gave him millions and has millions today, who has never suffered consequences for his actions, who has a history of structuring deals so if they go south others pay the bill, and who doesn't pay contractors when he knows he can bury them in litigation. He's exactly the kind of person the 1980s film industry told us to have a visceral hatred of

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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2 minutes ago, toonkee said:

eats well done steak.

 

1 minute ago, bsu_alum9 said:

with ketchup.

/thread

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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15 hours ago, IanforHeisman said:

Nah. You just think everyone is stupid enough to believe you’re being sincere. If you still support Trump you clearly rationalize his ridiculous behavior and won’t believe otherwise.

I am not all in on trump, I am being sincere.  I dont care for the man but support a lot of his achievements. Most of what I see is emotion.. 

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  • He lies so much that I'm not even certain he knows what the truth is.
  • He's more focused on gaslighting the American public than he is in actually being the head of state.
  • He's damaged relationships with our closest allies through rhetoric and needless trade wars.
  • His trade wars betray the fact that he doesn't actually understand how trade really works --- trade deficits aren't actually a bad thing in a lot of cases. His policies are damaging Americans --- soybean farmers may not recover from his trade war with China, but Russia was right there ready to fill the void for China.
  • He parrots Russian propaganda and talking points ---
    - Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was really about combating terror.
    - Changed GOP platform in regards to Russia/Crimea.
    - Actively sought to remove sanctions on Russia (more were dropped last week).
    - Met with Putin behind closed doors and took notes from the translator and told them they couldn't speak about it.
    - Still refuses to take the word of the US and our allies Intelligence Agencies that Russia interfered in the 2016 election.
  • Ketchup on well-done steak --- I mean, WTF;) 
  • Immigration gaslighting, and a complete lack of understanding of the actual issues at play. He cares more about getting a political win to satiate his base in the form of a wall than he does in actually solving any problems.
  • Repealed regulations that required retirement advisers to prioritize the interests of their clients ahead of their own self-interests. That's just part of the war that he and Gary Cohn waged against Dodd-Frank.
  • The zero tolerance border policy of separating children from their parents. The extent abuses there are still yet to be determined, and it's clear that there's an active coverup going on, especially in light of new reports that the actual number of children separated was far higher than they originally admitted. 
  • Repealing DACA and then trying to use DACA recipients lives as negotiating chips. 
  • His regular attacks on the FBI, the criminal justice system, and ultimately the rule of law because he thinks they're not fair to him.
  • Enabling white supremacists, and allowing them to come further out of the shadows, especially with his failure to fully condemn the Charlottesville atrocities and his "both sides" rhetoric. 
  • His regular firing of members of his staff because they're not "loyal" to him, or to suit his momentary whims has led to an administration in chaos. 
  • Blatant emoluments violations.

 

I mean, I could go on but I think you get the point. It goes well beyond the "orange man bad" or "TDS" shit that his apologists like to spew here and elsewhere. 

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His provably false, demagogic lies about immigration are probably what turns me off the most about him. But there are many other issues that others have raised.

 

Doubt OP is going to come back with any kind of coherent response to the legitimate issues raised. Trump supporters lack the wherewithal to rationally defend their idol

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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I'm not going to defend the way he uses his words but I feel he has accomplished a lot that the media fails to acknowledge and only focus on the negative things or what is misconstrued.

Under Trump, Congress passed historic tax cuts. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, for example, Is the first major one in 30 years Allowed us to have a record surplus of $214 million in April. Had 507 companies announce bonuses, increases, and new investments. Businesses have invested $482 billion into new American projects. 4.8 million workers, 3.7% of all workers, in fact, received a bonus, wage increase, or other boost due to Trump’s Act. $1.5 trillion were saved from being payed for single households. American families received $3.2 trillion in tax cuts and child tax credit doubled. The education system’s standard nearly doubled under the Act. Repealed Obamacare’s individual mandate. The bill provided a 20% deduction for small businesses, or $415 billion And finally, it lowered the corporate tax rate from 35%, the highest in the developed world, to a more respectable 21%

The GDP went up in record swathes. 2017 had an exact 10% growth in GDP. In 2018 it had a 2.8% growth just in the first quarter. President Trump is unleashing record numbers of economic growth and jobs. Unemployment rate fell to 49-year-low. The manufacturing industry had 300,000 new jobs. 337,000 construction jobs were introduced and the standards have rose dramatically. Fourteen states have record low unemployment rates. African-Americans have the lowest unemployment rates in their entire existence in America. Job openings reached 6.6 million, the highest number in history. Those dependent on food stamps fell 6.2%. The Dow Jones hit record highs no less than 80 times under President Trump, including closing at 26,000 points for the first time in history. $5 trillion in wealth has been accumulated. Economic confidence rebounded to record highs. The Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index rose in November 2017 to a 17-year high of 129.5. The National Association of Manufacturers’ Outlook Index had the highest annual average in its history. Small business optimism has sustained record-high levels under President Trump according to the National Federation of Independent Business.

Trump signed an executive order expanding apprenticeships. Trump signed a Presidential Memorandum to prioritise STEM and computer science education. $300 million has been raised. Trump prioritised the economic development of women, lending $500 million to women-owned businesses.

Since taking office, President Trump has advanced trade deals that protect American workers. Days after taking office, the President withdrew the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations and agreement. President Trump's Administration is working to defend American intellectual property from China's practices through a range of actions. The President improved the KORUS trade agreement with the The Republic of Korea, which will allow more U.S. automobile exports to South Korea with lower tariffs and increase U.S. pharmaceutical access to South Korea. American agriculture has gained access to new markets under President Trump. The Longest Consecutive Positive Monthly Job Growth on Record - Total payroll employment grew by 213,000 in June 2018 (18,000 over forecasts) led by gains in professional and business services, education and health services, and, once again, manufacturing. This is the longest consecutive, positive monthly job growth period on record (93 months). Wage growth soared at its fastest pace since the Great Recession” and the unemployment rate held “near a generational low” of 3.9 percent.

Immigration and Security Whether you like it or hate it, President Trump called on a Southern border wall, closed legal loopholes, ended chain migration, and ended visa lotteries. He also pulled us out of the Global Compact on Migration. President Trump rescinded the Deterred Action for Parents of America. Under President Trump, the Department of Homeland Security announced the Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement. 110,568 illegal, undocumented immigrants, which were not applying for citizenship or making an effort were detained. $98 million was spent on law enforcement for cities across America. Said law enforcement also can now use surplus defence equipment to further help law. 4,000 MS-13 gang members were arrested. President Trump signed three executive orders to crack down on international crime organisations. $1.6 billion was spent on border control. ICE also got funded 10% more. Federal agents seized a million pounds’ worth of narcotics…one million. Say illegals aren’t bad? Foreign Policy He took action to protect America’s steel, harmed by unfair trade.

The President exercised his authority to impose a 25 percent global tariff on steel imports and a 10 percent global tariff on aluminium imports in order to protect our national security. The tariffs on steel and aluminium are anticipated to reduce imports to levels needed for domestic industries to achieve long-term viability. As a result, these industries will be able to re-open closed mills, sustain a skilled workforce, and maintain or increase production. The strengthening of our domestic steel and aluminium industries reduces our reliance on foreign producers. President Trump is helping us to withdraw from the unfair Trans-Pacific Partnership. Re-negotiations of the North American Free Trade Agreement are still underway to modernise the deal so that all countries benefit. South Korean companies announced 64 projects that will invest more than $17 billion in the U.S. over four years and will purchase $58 billion in goods and services. Foxconn announced its investment of $10 billion in Wisconsin to build a factory that will employ thousands of workers directly, and up to 22,000 workers indirectly. Toyota and Mazda announced a $1.6 billion investment that will go toward a new manufacturing plant in the U.S., creating an estimated 4,000 jobs. At the White House, Broadcom Limited announced they were moving their headquarters back to the United States, bringing potentially $20 billion in annual revenue.

President Trump and King Salman of Saudi Arabia oversaw the signing of a historic $400 billion in deals between U.S. and Saudi companies. To defend U.S. national security interests, President Trump blocked a foreign company from acquiring a U.S. business for only the fourth time in history. Since President Trump was sworn into office, the Department of Commerce has initiated 79 antidumping and countervailing duties (AD/CVD) investigations. The U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) self-initiated a Section 301 investigation into whether Chinese policies, acts, and practices related to technology transfer, licensing, and intellectual property are unreasonable or discriminatory. This is the first use of Section 301 since 2001. The Treasury Department and State Department put new sanction rules to channel economic activity away from the Cuban government, particularly the military, and towards the people of Cuba. To @Nathan Hale, thank you. Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court Cut ~$500million funding to Palestine and Pakistan due to state-sponsored terror Legal actions against sanctuary cities Travel ban on Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria and Yemen to prevent terrorists from entering the US Sending education back to the states/removing federal government Mortgage applications at 7-year high Gutted Obama-era regulations generally Reduced white house payroll

Changed rules of engagement against ISIS to allow for greater US effort Worked to reduce cost of the F-35 Enacted 5-year ban on lobbying same department for Executive branch officials leaving government Sanctioned Iran for material breach of Obama's Iran deal Removed the US from the Paris Climate Accord Attempts to fix/reform the VA Authorized construction of Keystone pipeline Created commission on opioid addiction And so much more.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/americas-unemployment-rate-falls-lowest-level-almost-50-years/

https://www.tngop.org/more_americans_are_getting_back_to_work

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/31/trump-administration-will-put-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs-on-canada-mexico-and-the-eu.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/01/11/list-companies-paid-bonuses-boosted-pay-since-tax-bill-passed/1023848001/

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R45292.pdf

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29 minutes ago, cardrater said:

 

Immigration and Security Whether you like it or hate it, President Trump called on a Southern border wall, closed legal loopholes, ended chain migration, and ended visa lotteries. He also pulled us out of the Global Compact on Migration. President Trump rescinded the Deterred Action for Parents of America. Under President Trump, the Department of Homeland Security announced the Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement. 110,568 illegal, undocumented immigrants, which were not applying for citizenship or making an effort were detained. $98 million was spent on law enforcement for cities across America. Said law enforcement also can now use surplus defence equipment to further help law.

Not sure why you think any of this is a good thing. Perhaps it is because you share Trump's erroneous, dangerous, and provably false assumption that illegal immigrants are more prone to disease and violent crime? 

Quote

4,000 MS-13 gang members were arrested. President Trump signed three executive orders to crack down on international crime organisations. $1.6 billion was spent on border control. ICE also got funded 10% more. Federal agents seized a million pounds’ worth of narcotics…one million. Say illegals aren’t bad?

None of this is exclusive to Trump specifically besides maybe the ICE funding increase, which with the general decrease in illegal immigration as attested to be a majority of sources on the topic, seems like a waste of money. 

 

A vast majority of illegal immigrants are not smuggling drugs across, they are looking to better the life of themselves and their families, either as economic migrants or as political refugees. They aren't "bad". Designation of entire groups of vulnerable people as such has already led to some bad humanitarian outcomes.

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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22 hours ago, happycamper said:
  • His rhetoric has single handedly made populism more powerful in the US
  • He actively revitalized hate movements
  • His political appointees tend to be abject disasters to the point that Sessions looked reasonable
  • His governing style removes so many norms that typically restrict the President from being the kind of autocratic disaster many people fear that the spectre of future Presidents, who are actually politically effective, having that kind of power is terrifying (no matter their platforms)
  • His trade politics do not understand the issues at play and seem to be actively undermining his stated objectives
  • His spend and cut taxes economic policy is somehow more reckless than FRICKIN OBAMA AND BUSH, HOW DO YOU EVEN DO THAT
  • His criminal justice platform is essentially "go back to the '80s and try all the stuff that caused our modern prisoner and structural racism issues of today" - unclear how much was him and how much is just the people around him
  • Does not seem to understand the importance of governing vs campaigning - this has been a problem for a while, but Trump is so far the apex of the "great at campaigning/falls on his face at governing" duality we've been subject to as a nation
  • He's a rich kid whose daddy gave him millions and has millions today, who has never suffered consequences for his actions, who has a history of structuring deals so if they go south others pay the bill, and who doesn't pay contractors when he knows he can bury them in litigation. He's exactly the kind of person the 1980s film industry told us to have a visceral hatred of

Thanks for the first clear headed post.

I believe that the media affects each of us  more than we realize .   If the media was even being close to being fair, it would temper most of your points about his insensitive rhetoric. 

Most Americans are not racist and I do not believe he is racist either.  Just because one chooses to be non-PC doesnt mean you are a racist. 

 It seems now we all yearn to be insulted and agreived and it shows. I agree he is just a shit head and I wouldnt like him personally. 

I agree with you on Trumps spending.  I do remember during a past arguement during Obama's admin spending.....You argued our national debt wasn't important because we owned most of it. So give that one a rest.

His governing style insults all that hate him....DC needs to be shaken up...and that is also obvious the way our own govt is trying to remove him by any means necessary.   It has forced the extreme left to show their real hand.  This makes him popular among his voters. 

His trade policies are painful but I beleive as many business heads do..we will be benefit as time allows .

He has done more about justice reform than anyone recently. 

Most of your other comments could be said of the last administration too but you weren't pissed about that. 

Why does all this stir up so much hatred?   We are all at fault...with a lot of help from the media stirring outrage at every turn.  It wears us down and we get what we deserve.  

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1 hour ago, Jackrabbit said:

Thanks for the first clear headed post.

I believe that the media affects each of us  more than we realize .   If the media was even being close to being fair, it would temper most of your points about his insensitive rhetoric. 

No, it wouldn't, and in fact, go +++++ yourself for this, Jack. I don't need to be condescended as to how media makes me feel (especially not by you). I'm basing my points on the primary source of shit that Donald Trump has said, by interview, on speeches, or in tweets. If you think that it is media "not being fair" by allowing access to public comments of the president, then I have to say that you are the one with his head up his ass (and incidentally this exact attitude is why I was the only person to engage with you, really. You're condescending af with no real understanding). 

1 hour ago, Jackrabbit said:

Most Americans are not racist and I do not believe he is racist either.  Just because one chooses to be non-PC doesnt mean you are a racist. 

Hmm. Deliberately excluding black people from your business, calling most mexicans rapists, and saying a guy can't do his job because of his ethnicity is objectively racist, jack. 

1 hour ago, Jackrabbit said:

 

Most of your other comments could be said of the last administration too but you weren't pissed about that. 

The only other comment which could be said of the past administration was one where I referenced the past administration, jack

1 hour ago, Jackrabbit said:

Why does all this stir up so much hatred?   We are all at fault...with a lot of help from the media stirring outrage at every turn.  It wears us down and we get what we deserve.  

Why does governing the country terribly, setting an example not just for an imperial presidency but an autocratic one, and stirring up racism and populism stir up hatred?

Gee, I wonder?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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38 minutes ago, happycamper said:

No, it wouldn't, and in fact, go +++++ yourself for this, Jack. I don't need to be condescended as to how media makes me feel (especially not by you). I'm basing my points on the primary source of shit that Donald Trump has said, by interview, on speeches, or in tweets. If you think that it is media "not being fair" by allowing access to public comments of the president, then I have to say that you are the one with his head up his ass (and incidentally this exact attitude is why I was the only person to engage with you, really. You're condescending af with no real understanding). 

Hmm. Deliberately excluding black people from your business, calling most mexicans rapists, and saying a guy can't do his job because of his ethnicity is objectively racist, jack. 

The only other comment which could be said of the past administration was one where I referenced the past administration, jack

Why does governing the country terribly, setting an example not just for an imperial presidency but an autocratic one, and stirring up racism and populism stir up hatred?

Gee, I wonder?

Now....You are proving my point about liberals being so emotional.  Better go get a hug and take a nap with your blanky. ***k

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