Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

retrofade

Something I've been wondering about in relation to the DEEP STATE conspiracy theory

Recommended Posts

The DEEP STATE conspiracy posits there exists a group who is able to govern the US from behind the scenes, as effectively a form of a shadow government. This "shadow government" is reportedly an association of individuals from the government bureaucracy, most prominently in the DoJ, FBI, and even the Pentagon --- as well as top officials in finance and defense industries. Now, that does sound a little bit like the Military-Industrial Complex, but taken to another level. Or perhaps, the Military-Industrial Complex is merely a cog in the wheel of the Deep State, in the form of the top officials that I mentioned earlier. 

According to some, the second aim of the DEEP STATE conspirators currently is to delegitimize the Presidency of Donald Trump, and during the 2016 election, to work behind the scenes to try and prevent him from ever becoming President in the first place. Believers in this portion of the DEEP STATE conspiracy most prominently point to issues such as the Fusion GPS investigation into Trump, initially funded by a GOP group --- possibly part of the DEEP STATE themselves --- trying to prevent Trump from being elected, and later picked up by the Clinton campaign via the DNC and Perkins Coie. This then obviously includes the infamous Steele Dossier and its later dissemination into the public domain. Other key elements include the Strzok/Page text messages, Bruce Ohr's meetings with Steele, Nellie Ohr working for Fusion GPS and later getting a Ham radio license, the Carter Page FISA warrant, Comey declining to prosecute Hillary Clinton over her emails. Then there is also the "Crossfire Hurricane" investigation that the FBI launched after Trump campaign officials were found to be attempting to surreptitiously meet with Russians and Russian officials, which was later rolled over into what is now known as the Mueller Investigation. Those were the elements of this conspiracy attempting to prevent Trump from ever being elected. 

Now that I've gone over the different elements of the DEEP STATE conspiracy --- and I know that there are others, like the FBI launching a counterintelligence investigation into Trump following his firing of then FBI Director Comey --- but my question has to do with the pre-election portion. Which brings me to my main question here.

IF there does exist a DEEP STATE conspiracy, focused on preventing a Trump Presidency, and the conspirators included top officials in the DoJ, then it seems like they could have taken serious action during the election cycle. The action that I'm thinking of very well could have tanked any possibility of Trump being elected, and might have even forced the GOP to take the unprecedented action of removing him as the candidate prior to or during their convention. 

So what action might that have been? If we posit that Strzok and Page's "insurance policy" was the "Crossfire Hurricane" investigation... why didn't the DEEP STATE conspirators simply leak that an investigation into the Trump campaign's ties with Russia was in progress? Even if Strzok and Page aren't elements of the conspiracy, other members more than likely would have been aware of the investigation? Additionally, if this conspiracy was actively trying to prevent Trump from becoming President, how was Comey's hand forced by the possibility of leaks from within his own department of the DoJ into reopening the investigation into Hillary's emails? 

I know this has been long-winded, and I probably could have asked it straight off... but I thought the background was important to review. If the DEEP STATE actively tried to keep Trump from becoming President by investigating his campaign, and later getting a FISA warrant on Carter Page as part of that investigation, why didn't they simply leak the existence of the investigation? It seems like that would have been a significantly less complex than starting an investigation and then doing your best to keep it from entering the public eye. Was the DEEP STATE concerned that by doing this, they might shine a light on themselves? 

What say you, MWCBoard? Do you believe in the DEEP STATE? If so, do you think that the question that I'm asking would have been a far simpler way to prevent a Trump Presidency? Even if we deny the existence of this conspiracy and simply believe that elements of the FBI and DoJ are corrupt, we have to ask the same question. Why didn't they just leak that they were investigating the Trump Campaign for possible coordination with Russia and Russian interests? Additionally, and this could have been fatal to Trump's candadicy, why didn't they just leak the Steele Dossier in October, just before the election as a counter to the reopening of the Hillary's emails investigation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say that there is little question the Republican Party tried to prevent trump getting the nomination - He was an outsider who's been all over the map politically over his lifetime and he was even cozy with Hillary at one time. This is a reason the Democratic Party has "super delegates" to prevent an outsider hijacking the party's nomination, which sort of played out in the Clinton vs Sanders battle in 2016 where Sanders fans griped about the "fix being in for Hillary" 

Not sure there is a cabal of "deep state" operatives who pull strings....the right wing has a tendency to gravitate to conspiracy theories when their candidates & policies don't get full approval, so rather than coming to grips that they really aren't the majority they deflect to conspiracies that are holding them back.......... (i.e., The SDSU fan base a few years back were sure the "front range conspiracy" was holding SDSU back from achieving the greatness they surely were due! ;)

Since the advent of Fox News and the scads of right wing radio propagandists, it was only going to be a matter of time before those who adhere to the constant Fox / RW Radio drum beat were going to be led down the path to "everyone is out to get them" ( This is a tactic the NRA uses with the standard "insert Dem candidate name here"  is going to come for your guns. ) - then we have the added layer of right wing lunacy with the cranks like Alex Jones (who's got a conspiracy for EVERYTHING) and even right wing evangelicals who put the biblical slant on their idiocy to sway the "gullible"........this is a thing that's been building for about 30 years & it's worked on a segment of the population to the point they dwell in an alternate reality of their media message lords creation.

Take the Pizza Gate thing for instance..........there's a conspiracy on a level of idiocy that is truly stunning, but yet some "righteous patriot" was compelled to go do his own sniffing around and ended up in a clusterphuck of stupidity created by the voices in his head and his being completely immersed in the messages of the lunatic fringe...then there was Jade Helm, where they thought for sure Obama was declaring martial law in his final days in office to take over the country...........and of course with a base of dolts, who have trouble distinguishing idiocy from reality, trump opted to make those nitwits his fan base and basically took over the Republican Party and thus turned the right wing media misinformation machine into his own personal toy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest damage that the Trump presidency will do long-term is damage to legitimate concerns over legitimate issues that he hitches his clown-car wagon to.

People like me who think we should focus on limiting the power of unelected bureaucrats more than elected officials will forever be associated with this crap because a bunch of people who don't like to press 1 for English and who get mad when you say "Happy Holidays!" elected a dipshit.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lets see here, Brennan, Strzok, Page, Comey, Ohr (and his butt ugly wife) and McCabe - all are extreme Trump critics, they've all said or texted things that indicated they were actively trying to bring down Trump.  They didn't just express personal opinions they they disliked Trump, they actually did things like put thru FISA warrants without disclosing its funding sources.  Setup wire tapping,  gov't surveillance, etc. all used their positions of power to actively try to interfere with the peoples elected President.  

I do not think there was or is some collective Deep State, but its quite clear there were several very high ranking people in the gov't who used their positions inappropriately for political reasons. This is not much different than Nixon and Watergate.  Its not much different than what J Edgar Hoover did.  The sad thing is democrats support these guys even after the fact. If the FBI had done a secret investigation on Obama, democrats would have come unglued.     

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Lets see here, Brennan, Strzok, Page, Comey, Ohr (and his butt ugly wife) and McCabe - all are extreme Trump critics, they've all said or texted things that indicated they were actively trying to bring down Trump.  They didn't just express personal opinions they they disliked Trump, they actually did things like put thru FISA warrants without disclosing its funding sources.  Setup wire tapping,  gov't surveillance, etc. all used their positions of power to actively try to interfere with the peoples elected President.  

I do not think there was or is some collective Deep State, but its quite clear there were several very high ranking people in the gov't who used their positions inappropriately for political reasons. This is not much different than Nixon and Watergate.  Its not much different than what J Edgar Hoover did.  The sad thing is democrats support these guys even after the fact. If the FBI had done a secret investigation on Obama, democrats would have come unglued.     

 

I agree with you. It's not much different from Nixon and Watergate. Hopefully it has the same ending.

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Lets see here, Brennan, Strzok, Page, Comey, Ohr (and his butt ugly wife) and McCabe - all are extreme Trump critics, they've all said or texted things that indicated they were actively trying to bring down Trump.  They didn't just express personal opinions they they disliked Trump, they actually did things like put thru FISA warrants without disclosing its funding sources.  Setup wire tapping,  gov't surveillance, etc. all used their positions of power to actively try to interfere with the peoples elected President.  

I do not think there was or is some collective Deep State, but its quite clear there were several very high ranking people in the gov't who used their positions inappropriately for political reasons. This is not much different than Nixon and Watergate.  Its not much different than what J Edgar Hoover did.  The sad thing is democrats support these guys even after the fact. If the FBI had done a secret investigation on Obama, democrats would have come unglued.     

 

Why would there be a secret investigation of Obama?  There has never been a hint that Obama was allied with Putin. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Lets see here, Brennan, Strzok, Page, Comey, Ohr (and his butt ugly wife) and McCabe - all are extreme Trump critics, they've all said or texted things that indicated they were actively trying to bring down Trump.

Yeah, they should stop doing that.

After all, Trump is doing a bang-up job of it all by himself.

Boom goes the dynamite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Lets see here, Brennan, Strzok, Page, Comey, Ohr (and his butt ugly wife) and McCabe - all are extreme Trump critics, they've all said or texted things that indicated they were actively trying to bring down Trump.  They didn't just express personal opinions they they disliked Trump, they actually did things like put thru FISA warrants without disclosing its funding sources.  Setup wire tapping,  gov't surveillance, etc. all used their positions of power to actively try to interfere with the peoples elected President.  

I do not think there was or is some collective Deep State, but its quite clear there were several very high ranking people in the gov't who used their positions inappropriately for political reasons. This is not much different than Nixon and Watergate.  Its not much different than what J Edgar Hoover did.  The sad thing is democrats support these guys even after the fact. If the FBI had done a secret investigation on Obama, democrats would have come unglued.     

 

You've ignored the core of my post... if that was their aim, why didn't they just leak that Trump's campaign was under investigation for coordinating with Russia?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, sandiegopete said:

Why would there be a secret investigation of Obama?  There has never been a hint that Obama was allied with Putin. 

Obama stopped Poland from obtaining a US Missile defense system.  Obama let Putin walk in and take Crimea.  Obama sat back and let Russia put out propaganda in US election. 
Obama was Putin's puppet!  
Obama was China's puppet too!  He didn't try to make China abide by fair trade.  Obama was Kim Jung Un's puppet too! Letting him develop missiles.  He was Irans puppet too! Paying them billions and giving them a pretend agreement.  Obama was the worlds puppet against US interests!  :angry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Obama stopped Poland from obtaining a US Missile defense system.  Obama let Putin walk in and take Crimea.  Obama sat back and let Russia put out propaganda in US election. 
Obama was Putin's puppet!  
Obama was China's puppet too!  He didn't try to make China abide by fair trade.  Obama was Kim Jung Un's puppet too! Letting him develop missiles.  He was Irans puppet too! Paying them billions and giving them a pretend agreement.  Obama was the worlds puppet against US interests!  :angry:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pokerider said:

Obama stopped Poland from obtaining a US Missile defense system.  Obama let Putin walk in and take Crimea.  Obama sat back and let Russia put out propaganda in US election. 
Obama was Putin's puppet!  
Obama was China's puppet too!  He didn't try to make China abide by fair trade.  Obama was Kim Jung Un's puppet too! Letting him develop missiles.  He was Irans puppet too! Paying them billions and giving them a pretend agreement.  Obama was the worlds puppet against US interests!  :angry:

Obama couldn’t sell Poland a missle defense system because it would have violated a treaty. 

Trump is letting North Korea develop and expand missle systems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, jackmormon said:

Obama couldn’t sell Poland a missle defense system because it would have violated a treaty. 

Trump is letting North Korea develop and expand missle systems.

Thats not true at all.  Obama was appeasing Russia.  

Trump has struck a deal with Poland to buy the missile system

https://www.hudson.org/research/14142-5-times-the-obama-administration-helped-russia-at-the-united-states-expense

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, pokerider said:

Obama stopped Poland from obtaining a US Missile defense system.  Obama let Putin walk in and take Crimea.  Obama sat back and let Russia put out propaganda in US election. 
Obama was Putin's puppet!  
Obama was China's puppet too!  He didn't try to make China abide by fair trade.  Obama was Kim Jung Un's puppet too! Letting him develop missiles.  He was Irans puppet too! Paying them billions and giving them a pretend agreement.  Obama was the worlds puppet against US interests!  :angry:

That missile defense system is still on hold.  Obama issued sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Crimea.  The same sanctions that were the subject of the infamous Trump Tower collusion meeting.  In fact, Trump has worked diligently to try and get those sanctions lifted as his part of the agreements with Russia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, sandiegopete said:

That missile defense system is still on hold.  Obama issued sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Crimea.  The same sanctions that were the subject of the infamous Trump Tower collusion meeting.  In fact, Trump has worked diligently to try and get those sanctions lifted as his part of the agreements with Russia.

Shhhh... don't confuse them with facts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...