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mugtang

Poll: When does the shutdown end?

Shutdown  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. When will the government shutdown end?

    • On or before 1/18/2019
      0
    • 1/19/2019 - 1/25/2019
    • 1/26/2019 - 1/31/2019
    • 2/1/2019 - 2/14/2019
    • 2/15/2019 - 2/28/2019
    • 3/1/2019 - 3/15/2019
    • 3/15/2019 - 3/31/2019
    • After 4/1/2019


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4 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

This is the obvious answer, at least it’s obvious to people not in Washington.

I am on the side of immigration reform.  I think a wall is stupid.  Yet $5 Billion to get immigration reform seems cheap to me in the grand scheme.

The longer this goes the more popular Trump will become on the right.  He ran on this as a campaign promise and his supporters believe in this.  Dems have picked a bad bad fight, they are going to get their ass kicked it is just a matter of when.  The only way Trump loses this battle is if he gives in he could up the stakes and still win.   Dems would be smart to give him what he wants now before the ask gets stiffer.

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5 billion in the grand scheme of the budget is absolutely nothing. It's crazy to think this whole thing is being held up over that amount. Like absolutely crazy. 

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15 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

I am on the side of immigration reform.  I think a wall is stupid.  Yet $5 Billion to get immigration reform seems cheap to me in the grand scheme.

The longer this goes the more popular Trump will become on the right.  He ran on this as a campaign promise and his supporters believe in this.  Dems have picked a bad bad fight, they are going to get their ass kicked it is just a matter of when.  The only way Trump loses this battle is if he gives in he could up the stakes and still win.   Dems would be smart to give him what he wants now before the ask gets stiffer.

I agree to a point, but it doesn’t matter how much more popular he gets on the right. That vote is maxed out. I’d guess the upper Midwest, where he still needs voters, is less enthralled with the wall and even less enamored with a shutdown over it. Which pretty much leaves us where we started. 

If the Dems were smart, and they clearly are not, they’d recognize that they are in a good negotiating position. Trump is all in on the wall, which means he can’t settle for a deal without it, so the Dems should be able to get pretty much whatever else they want with DACA and more. And for $6 billion? What a deal. 

I am sympathetic to the idea that giving in would only encourage more of this, but the Dems need to take a win when it presents itself. 

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20 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

I agree to a point, but it doesn’t matter how much more popular he gets on the right. That vote is maxed out. I’d guess the upper Midwest, where he still needs voters, is less enthralled with the wall and even less enamored with a shutdown over it. Which pretty much leaves us where we started. 

If the Dems were smart, and they clearly are not, they’d recognize that they are in a good negotiating position. Trump is all in on the wall, which means he can’t settle for a deal without it, so the Dems should be able to get pretty much whatever else they want with DACA and more. And for $6 billion? What a deal. 

I am sympathetic to the idea that giving in would only encourage more of this, but the Dems need to take a win when it presents itself. 

The only fault with your logic is the Dems don't want DACA or any immigration reform.  That has been the hammer they have used in campaign after campaign and they would be giving a triple win to the republicans.  The republicans would get credit for the wall and immigration reform and the democrats would lose their big identity politics issue.   They would have a hard time calling republicans racist every other word out of their mouth if Republicans could say look criminal justice reform here and over there immigration reform.

Trump will have passed more democratic campaign items than Obama did.

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1 hour ago, mysfit said:

Dems just won hugely in an election. Why? Because people don't want a wall and are tired of trump. Standing up to him is precisely why the house had a giant, blue wave.

Trumpshutdown is on him and the repubs. Dems will hold firm which is what their supporters want.

 

I don't see the small fingered vulgarian backing down. Ever. Steve Bannon wanted to burn it all down. He and trump feel there are too many government employees. The shutdown will thin the ranks. Trump is happy the have people unpaid and out of work.

 

 

If the shutdown significantly thins the herd of government workers, it will be a bigger victory than putting up a wall. 

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1 hour ago, bluerules009 said:

I am on the side of immigration reform.  I think a wall is stupid.  Yet $5 Billion to get immigration reform seems cheap to me in the grand scheme.

The longer this goes the more popular Trump will become on the right.  He ran on this as a campaign promise and his supporters believe in this.  Dems have picked a bad bad fight, they are going to get their ass kicked it is just a matter of when.  The only way Trump loses this battle is if he gives in he could up the stakes and still win.   Dems would be smart to give him what he wants now before the ask gets stiffer.

Trump isn’t going to gain the support of people on the fence by shutting the government down. 

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2 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

They don't pump dollars into the economy, they produce nothing.  The tax money they get paid is, pumped into the economy by private businessman and just routed through a federal paycheck.  That money hasn't gone anywhere, it will still make it to the economy.

 

Not until the shut down ends.  Until then spending is down.

 

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2 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Government workers are leeches they produce nothing.    When they spend the money they leeched off private business when this is over nothing will have changed.

 

So public infrastructure is "nothing?"

 

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24 minutes ago, IanforHeisman said:

Trump isn’t going to gain the support of people on the fence by shutting the government down. 

 

YUP...& that fence sitting group is sizable, 30-40% of the pop.

 

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2 hours ago, IanforHeisman said:

Trump isn’t going to gain the support of people on the fence by shutting the government down. 

Why not, the government shutdown hurts no one who votes for him?

You win elections by turning out your base, the people on the fence do not matter that much.  The people on the fence are too stupid to pick a side because they have no real baseline ideology and probably won't vote anyway and most of them are lying about their fence sitting anyway.

You win by turning out your base. 

Just think how many times you have seen anyone change their mind on this board.  You do not win by trying to win the middle you lose big.

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The democrat path to victory looks like a veto override.  Not sure exactly how that works.  Is that 2/3 majority?  ... both House and Senate?

I don't know where they'll find enough GOP votes when the base doesn't care about the shutdown.

 

       

 

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7 minutes ago, easybronc said:

The democrat path to victory looks like a veto override.  Not sure exactly how that works.  Is that 2/3 majority?  ... both House and Senate?

I don't know where they'll find enough GOP votes when the base doesn't care about the shutdown.

 

Correct. Both the House and Senate would have to override his veto with a 2/3 majority. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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14 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Government employees are just a leech on the economy.  They produce nothing, having 20% of them out of work makes no difference.

It has no economic impact.

Could you care to provide case studies of other economies as developed as ours with less proportional government?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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21 hours ago, mysfit said:

Dems have everything to lose if they give in. You do not give in to a child throwing a tantrum. You lose all credibility going forward.

 

They need to continue to pressure the Senate.  The majority of people do not want a wall.  Stand firm.

 

The government will not open until the Senate allows a vote and then congress will over ride the veto. That's where this is headed. 

Good God!  Both sides of this see the other side as a kid throwing a tantrum.

Trump won't back down from his campaign position on border security.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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Dems can blame Trump all day long but the fact is they also can end the shutdown if they wanted.  

As far as a budget override, if this happens the Dems better be prepared to lose a lot more than $5B in other programs.  Republicans will make them pay dearly. 

This may go on for quite awhile.  Until enough TSA and other gov't employees who are working, quit.  Airports start to show strain, flights cancelled, etc.  And again, Dems can say blame Trump, we can fix this if we wanted but we don't want to so blame Trump.  

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3 hours ago, happycamper said:

Could you care to provide case studies of other economies as developed as ours with less proportional government?

Would you care to show me one iota of government that isn't provided for by private business?  There is one example but you are far far too stupid to figure it out.

Government produces nothing so the shutdown has no economic lasting effect as the wages will get paid someday.   There is no net loss to the economy.

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