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mugtang

What if we are alone in the universe?

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6 hours ago, mugtang said:

That’s a very valid question.  You’d have to look at it this way if we are truly alone in the Universe:

1) Humans are here by chance after conquering odds of 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that’s 1 in 1 Septillion) to come into existence. I came up with these odds based on the odds presented in the video above (1,000^8). 

or

2) The Universe was created for the human race by an omnipotent being of some sort and the Universe is our playground. 

Looking at it either way makes humanity pretty special. 

And a very short time on earth. A scientist recently said that if a 100 yard football field was the life of the earth, The period of time man was on the earth would only account for an inch of FB field at the very end.

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 5:11 PM, AndroidAggie said:

Going from single cell organisms to multi cellular was a huge jump 

Even going from amino acids to a single cell organism is a mind-blowing jump.

So, say that RNA could be created at random through natural processes with amino acids found in the environment. Then what?

What causes the RNA to organize in a meaningful way, build a cellular wall and fill it with cytoplasm? Then what causes early RNA-based life to develop organelles to build and read DNA as well as other organelles like mitochondria?

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On 1/9/2019 at 12:45 PM, smltwnrckr said:

I would bet that we are alone in the universe. The question I have is, if we are, does that make the existence of God more or less believable?

That would be mathematically the worst bet of all time.  That would be like betting 9 gazillion dollars on the Washington Generals to defeat the Harlem Globetrotters to win 1 cent.  

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The premise of the video is faulty. It makes way too many assumptions from a human point of view.

Please watch

 

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3 hours ago, CV147 said:

Even going from amino acids to a single cell organism is a mind-blowing jump.

So, say that RNA could be created at random through natural processes with amino acids found in the environment. Then what?

What causes the RNA to organize in a meaningful way, build a cellular wall and fill it with cytoplasm? Then what causes early RNA-based life to develop organelles to build and read DNA as well as other organelles like mitochondria?

Cereal grains and water didn't mix naturally to create beer. It took someone to hone the process.  

Just like life. 

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One thing that isn't taken into account though is that, while that number may seem huge to us, in the grand scheme of things, it could be incredibly minute, given how vast the universe (or multiverse) is. We are just hairless monkeys who can use tools after all. 

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9 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

One thing that isn't taken into account though is that, while that number may seem huge to us, in the grand scheme of things, it could be incredibly minute, given how vast the universe (or multiverse) is. We are just hairless monkeys who can use tools after all. 

Some of us still have a lot of hair.

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18 minutes ago, DestinFlPackfan said:

Cereal grains and water didn't mix naturally to create beer. It took someone to hone the process.  

Just like life. 

 

3 hours ago, CV147 said:

Even going from amino acids to a single cell organism is a mind-blowing jump.

So, say that RNA could be created at random through natural processes with amino acids found in the environment. Then what?

What causes the RNA to organize in a meaningful way, build a cellular wall and fill it with cytoplasm? Then what causes early RNA-based life to develop organelles to build and read DNA as well as other organelles like mitochondria?

I hear these arguments trying to justify the existence of a god like being.

The big problem is pretty obvious, if you can't see the path from amino acids to single cell organisms.  How do you get from nothing to a god?  Isn't that encumbered with the same problems multiplied?  

Pretty ridiculous arguments.

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2 hours ago, toonkee said:

That would be mathematically the worst bet of all time.  That would be like betting 9 gazillion dollars on the Washington Generals to defeat the Harlem Globetrotters to win 1 cent.  

To clarify... I mean that I would bet that if there is life elsewhere, we're the most advanced. 

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

To clarify... I mean that I would bet that if there is life elsewhere, we're the most advanced. 

My point stands. 13.5 billion years of universe in the dimensions we can perceive, trillions, maybe quadrillions of planets. Any evidence of our existence has only been broadcast 80 light years in radio waves and radio communication might be so primitive to other beings or AI that they wouldn't even be looking for it. Our own galaxy is 100k light years across.  There are 100+ billion galaxies the nearest of which is 70k light years away.  The universe can be teeming with life intelligent life and we may never know because of the shear distances involved.   

 

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1 hour ago, DestinFlPackfan said:

Cereal grains and water didn't mix naturally to create beer. It took someone to hone the process.  

Just like life. 

Who honed the honer?

And life may not be special.  It may be as natural as rocks forming with the right conditions.

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45 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

Some of us still have a lot of hair.

@mugtang

image.jpeg.7229b053978a4b8595f31a7b00cbb7ed.jpeg

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  So many one on a trillion things happened to get where we are I think it’s far more likely we are the only intelligent life. It’s probably better that way anyways, other intelligent life wouldn’t be good for us. 

It used to kinda freak me out the older I get I’m ok it.. 

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3 minutes ago, IanforHeisman said:

  So many one on a trillion things happened to get where we are I think it’s far more likely we are the only intelligent life. It’s probably better that way anyways, other intelligent life wouldn’t be good for us. 

It used to kinda freak me out the older I get I’m ok it.. 

A trillion compared to infinity is like comparing Mt. Everest to a grain of sand. But even moreso. 

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On 1/9/2019 at 3:06 PM, mugtang said:

It is entirely possible.  But we can really only calculate the odds based on what we know.  And the only complex life we know of exists on Earth. 

We may be so primitive that we register as protozoa or amoeba to other species or AI. 

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2 minutes ago, toonkee said:

We may be so primitive that we register as protozoa or amoeba to other species or AI. 

That’s true too. 

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6 minutes ago, IanforHeisman said:

  So many one on a trillion things happened to get where we are I think it’s far more likely we are the only intelligent life. It’s probably better that way anyways, other intelligent life wouldn’t be good for us. 

It used to kinda freak me out the older I get I’m ok it.. 

Everything that exist is the result of trillions of circumstances.  Why are we different.  We are the result of a path that was set in motion long ago, just like anything else.  We had a 100% chance of being what we are.

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Earths magnetic field, our friendly giants Saturn and Jupiter protecting us from bombardment, the occurrence of the moon and it’s role in evolution, you could be here all day listing these unique occurrences that are responsible for life in earth and not found in the 4000+ planets today. I understand the vastness of space(well, not really nobody does), but I think it’s a good possibility you won’t find another planet with the luck of earth. I think the odds of a natural disaster destroying life on a planet are higher than the odds a planet devoloping uninterupted for billions of years.

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10 hours ago, toonkee said:

My point stands. 13.5 billion years of universe in the dimensions we can perceive, trillions, maybe quadrillions of planets. Any evidence of our existence has only been broadcast 80 light years in radio waves and radio communication might be so primitive to other beings or AI that they wouldn't even be looking for it. Our own galaxy is 100k light years across.  There are 100+ billion galaxies the nearest of which is 70k light years away.  The universe can be teeming with life intelligent life and we may never know because of the shear distances involved.   

 

Honest questions, since I didn't go past high school calculus.

1) How can you predict the probability for a process occurring somewhere else if you don't even know the mechanism by which it occurs and thus can't even re-create it? 

2) Why is there an assumption that life, once it actually does manifest itself out of the required components, progresses inherently towards the capacity for self-awareness and abstraction?

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9 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Honest questions, since I didn't go past high school calculus.

1) How can you predict the probability for a process occurring somewhere else if you don't even know the mechanism by which it occurs and thus can't even re-create it? 

2) Why is there an assumption that life, once it actually does manifest itself out of the required components, progresses inherently towards the capacity for self-awareness and abstraction?

1) I agree for the most part.

2) I do not assume that. But I would also be careful to not assume that self awareness or abstraction is anything beyond the natural course of physical events.

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