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Guest #1Stunner

OT: WAC News. Dixie State University joining the WAC.

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34 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

It's tough, because there is the issue of historic rivalries.  

But maybe something like this:

 

BIG SKY CONFERENCE (all members play football and all sports)  (8 FOOTBALL SCHOOLS) (9 BASKETBALL SCHOOLS)

1 - Idaho

2 - Idaho State

3- Montana

4 - Montana state

5 - Northern Colorado

6 - Weber State

7 - Southern Utah

8 - Dixie State

9 - UT Rio Grand Valley

 

WESTERN ATHLETIC CONFERENCE  (6 FOOTBALL SCHOOLS) (9 BASKETBALL SCHOOLS)

1 - Eastern Washington (w/ football)

2 - Portland State (w/ football)

3 - Sac State (w/ football)

4 - Cal Poly (football only----NO OTHER SPORTS)

5 - UC Davis (football only---NO OTHER SPORTS)

6 - Northern Arizona (w/ football)

7 - Cal Baptist

8 - NM State (NO FOOTBALL - Indy.   Could explore going FCS in this conference, if they want)

9 - San Jose State (NO FOOTBALL---they need to drop men's football)

10 - Utah Valley

11- Seattle

 

 

OUT

UMKC (summit)

Chicago State (summit)

Grand Canyon (WCC) 

 

 

That is pretty well done Stunner.  The Big Sky is pretty compact that way.  The WAC is more regional as well.  My only quibble, like you stated, is some of the rivalries like E. Washington and Montana but they could play OOC.  

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Guest #1Stunner
On 5/21/2019 at 5:11 PM, Wyobraska said:

That is pretty well done Stunner.  The Big Sky is pretty compact that way.  The WAC is more regional as well.  My only quibble, like you stated, is some of the rivalries like E. Washington and Montana but they could play OOC.  

Yeah.

And if SJSU was determined to keep their football, they'd be in a conference with other FCS California schools   There is room for them to keep their football in the WAC.

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11 hours ago, alum93 said:

I agree, that mix of schools makes no sense for FCS or FBS.  Also,  the WAC as a basketball conference has ranked pretty high for a mid major, close to MWC last couple years.  It has been above CUSA, Big Sky, and Big West as well.  With NMSU leading the way from an RPI/NET standpoint and teams like GCU and UVU improving steadily,  i can't see why a conference of mixing and matching would help NMSU unless it was for an FBS home.  N Dakota State, Dixie State, and Sacramento State in football?  Our schedule is already filled with home and home series with the likes of SDSU, Fresno, Hawaii, UNM, UTEP, SJSU, Nevada, USU, and Wyoming over the next 4-5 years, not to mention multiple P5 schools.  I'll take the current WAC for oly sports and indy FBS over any new FCS best of best scenarios.  

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2018/8/22/17769220/ncaa-college-basketball-selection-committee-metric-ranking-rpi-net

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article226480980.html

 

Alum 93,

   Getting off topic here but, you keep referencing "RPI" like it is a relevant metric.  The RPI is a dead metric that was hardly used by the NCAA last year.  The MWC was rated four spots better than the WAC as a conference using the NET metric.  

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/conferencenet

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11 hours ago, stchas said:

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2018/8/22/17769220/ncaa-college-basketball-selection-committee-metric-ranking-rpi-net

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article226480980.html

 

Alum 93,

   Getting off topic here but, you keep referencing "RPI" like it is a relevant metric.  The RPI is a dead metric that was hardly used by the NCAA last year.  The MWC was rated four spots better than the WAC as a conference using the NET metric.  

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/conferencenet

Cool, use RPI/NET.  NET is fine.  As far as MWC and WAC,  3 to 4 spots difference, pick a number, pick a site.  6-7 years ago there was a massive gap as the WAC was in the low 20s out of 30+ conferences, the MWC was around 10.  Now it's like 12 and 16 respectively.  It's not meant as a slam on MWC or high praise on WAC.  They have been comparable top to bottom for 2 years.  I suspect they will be comparable again as a mid major this year.  While the MWC had 2 high ranked programs end of year in Nevada and USU, they had two sub 300 programs in Wyoming and SJSU.  NMSU had the highest NET in WAC, not to be confused with RPI.  The WAC also had one sub 300 program in Chicago State.  All 3 of those teams between both conferences had horrific years.  Sub 300 is really bad basketball and hurts everyone.  Both conferences are basically 1 bid conferences until something drastic changes.  MWC can be a 2 bid, but hasn't been consistently last 4 years.  I believe it would have been 1 bid 3 years in a row if Nevada hadn't been upset in tourney in 2018 right?  And Nevada was one great comeback with the twins, and that whole team deserves all the respect for that 2 year run, from MWC not having a tourney win for several years in a row.  I mean it is what it is.  We'll see how the conferences out west trend moving forward.  The only way I see the MWC significantly improving is by being proactive and this time snagging a Gonzaga.  The likelihood of that is quite slim.  And no one out west compares to Gonzaga, who is on a 2+ decade run.  I'll still follow mid majors out west over teams back east.    

Even if a team in either conference has a great run, and Nevada this year and NMSU before are latest examples, plus Pope at UVU,  the coaches get a huge raise to move elsewhere.  USU and NMSU are probably one or two NCAA tourney wins from having to go looking again.  Gonzaga is the exception, with Few staying and building a powerhouse.  I just don't see a MWC or WAC school keeping the same coach and repeating that success, especially the NCAA tourney wins, over any significant length of time.  So yeah, in summary, the WAC and MWC are pretty similar.  Blame P5 money and greed, both for poaching coaches and schools.

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20 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

In my opinion, nothing wrong with FCS and knowing where you stand.  I know Montana has some budget issues, not sure if Montana St has the same issues since Bozeman is a growing more than Missoula.  The North Dakato schools for the FCS profile well and I don't know if FBS would benefit them. All of those schools have local and regional players on their teams as well.  A lot to be said about that.  If they move to FBS they will probably have to recruit nationally more as well which also costs more money.  Nothing wrong with FCS.  

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the FCS unless there someday is an official split between the P5 and G5.  If this happens then FCS becomes tier 3 and this will trigger the better FCS schools moving to the G5 where possible.

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16 minutes ago, NorthWestCowboy said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the FCS unless there someday is an official split between the P5 and G5.  If this happens then FCS becomes tier 3 and this will trigger the better FCS schools moving to the G5 where possible.

I would think that if that happens, a lot of the Big Sky would move up to G5.  But you are correct, some FCS schools could be left behind.  

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16 hours ago, Wyobraska said:

That is pretty well done Stunner.  The Big Sky is pretty compact that way.  The WAC is more regional as well.  My only quibble, like you stated, is some of the rivalries like E. Washington and Montana but they could play OOC.  

 

Nothing says compact better than stretching from mountains in the north down to the Rio Grande.

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3 hours ago, alum93 said:

Cool, use RPI/NET.  NET is fine.  As far as MWC and WAC,  3 to 4 spots difference, pick a number, pick a site.  6-7 years ago there was a massive gap as the WAC was in the low 20s out of 30+ conferences, the MWC was around 10.  Now it's like 12 and 16 respectively.  It's not meant as a slam on MWC or high praise on WAC.  They have been comparable top to bottom for 2 years.  I suspect they will be comparable again as a mid major this year.  While the MWC had 2 high ranked programs end of year in Nevada and USU, they had two sub 300 programs in Wyoming and SJSU.  NMSU had the highest NET in WAC, not to be confused with RPI.  The WAC also had one sub 300 program in Chicago State.  All 3 of those teams between both conferences had horrific years.  Sub 300 is really bad basketball and hurts everyone.  Both conferences are basically 1 bid conferences until something drastic changes.  MWC can be a 2 bid, but hasn't been consistently last 4 years.  I believe it would have been 1 bid 3 years in a row if Nevada hadn't been upset in tourney in 2018 right?  And Nevada was one great comeback with the twins, and that whole team deserves all the respect for that 2 year run, from MWC not having a tourney win for several years in a row.  I mean it is what it is.  We'll see how the conferences out west trend moving forward.  The only way I see the MWC significantly improving is by being proactive and this time snagging a Gonzaga.  The likelihood of that is quite slim.  And no one out west compares to Gonzaga, who is on a 2+ decade run.  I'll still follow mid majors out west over teams back east.    

Even if a team in either conference has a great run, and Nevada this year and NMSU before are latest examples, plus Pope at UVU,  the coaches get a huge raise to move elsewhere.  USU and NMSU are probably one or two NCAA tourney wins from having to go looking again.  Gonzaga is the exception, with Few staying and building a powerhouse.  I just don't see a MWC or WAC school keeping the same coach and repeating that success, especially the NCAA tourney wins, over any significant length of time.  So yeah, in summary, the WAC and MWC are pretty similar.  Blame P5 money and greed, both for poaching coaches and schools.

 

I don't think that's the case.  After all, UCI won 31 games this year, an NCAA tourney game - and Russell Turner is still there going into his 10th year.  NMSU and USU are not in any risk of losing their coaches.

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32 minutes ago, Wyobraska said:

Rio Grande is an outlier, but the rest is pretty compact. 

 

Hey you know what’s compact? A 16 team Big Sky!

North

Seattle

Eastern Washington

Portland State

Idaho

Idaho State

Montana

Montana State

Sac State

 

South

Weber State

Utah Valley

Southern Utah

Northern Arizona

Grand Canyon

North Colorado

Fill the last two spots with some combo of Cal Baptist, Dixie State, NMSU, and Denver. Or stay at 14 teams and bump Sac State to the south, whatever.

C’mon Big Sky, take the advice of an anonymous SJSU fan on a message board and make it happen! 

 

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2 hours ago, jdgaucho said:

 

I don't think that's the case.  After all, UCI won 31 games this year, an NCAA tourney game - and Russell Turner is still there going into his 10th year.  NMSU and USU are not in any risk of losing their coaches.

I specifically stated if they win NCAA tourney games.  This year both Nevada and UVU coaches went elsewhere, and UVU never even made it to an NCAA tourney.  3 years ago Weir went to UNM after one season and 8 years as an assistant, which lead to NMSU landing Jans.  4 years ago Menzies went from NMSU to UNLV, and he is now at GCU.  It happens.

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1 hour ago, westfan said:

OT: Will the WAC have trouble with the name Dixie State being politically correct these days ? I get that the area was named for the South because it was warm and could grow cotton.

I think the name Dixie is fine, their mascot may not be in the future.

LBSU just changed theirs to the sharks because 49ers is "racist".

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1 hour ago, bigd said:

I think the name Dixie is fine, their mascot may not be in the future.

LBSU just changed theirs to the sharks because 49ers is "racist".

You're confusing Long Island University with Cal State Long Beach (aka Long Beach State).

https://headlines.liu.edu/?p=2700

 

Edit: Never mind. I just did another search, because I do remember the outcry about 49ers. It was announced 13 days ago. I missed it, but saw the LIU announcement this week, or last, on my sports feed. So now there are two D1 sharks.

https://www.presstelegram.com/2019/05/10/sharks-will-be-cal-state-long-beachs-new-mascot-university-says/

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2 hours ago, westfan said:

OT: Will the WAC have trouble with the name Dixie State being politically correct these days ? I get that the area was named for the South because it was warm and could grow cotton.

Dixie state did change its mascot in '07 from rebels to red storm. It changed it again recently from red storm to trailblazers.

Red Storm:

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2015/12/28/dixie-state-university-timeline-branding-changes/77927222/

Trailblazers:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/765685641/Dixie-State-adopts-bison-mascot-Trailblazers-identity.html

 

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