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retrofade

Will Trump Declare a National Emergency to build the WALL tonight?

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18 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

800,000 federal workers not working.

Yet no one cares and no one is suffering.

Maybe we don't need them, ever think of that folks?

I care.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/01/why-national-parks-trashed-during-government-shutdown/

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51 minutes ago, retrofade said:

It's actually tomorrow night.

 

$10 says that he invokes a national emergency. 

If Donald was a real man he'd do it tonight against the football game.

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19 minutes ago, pokebball said:

You think it is?

Huh, don't know what i saw.  My bad.  No i can't see any reason it's a national emergency.  So we do have common ground.  I also think Trump is backed into a corner and will act appropriately.  He will scare people, talk about murders and rapes, and pretend it will be solved with some steel barriers.  The longer this fight goes on, the more each hard core base thinks their side is right.  Trump looks good to a certain segment of the population, ditto for Pelosi and the new Dem House.  

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9 minutes ago, alum93 said:

Huh, don't know what i saw.  My bad.  No i can't see any reason it's a national emergency.  So we do have common ground.  I also think Trump is backed into a corner and will act appropriately.  He will scare people, talk about murders and rapes, and pretend it will be solved with some steel barriers.  The longer this fight goes on, the more each hard core base thinks their side is right.  Trump looks good to a certain segment of the population, ditto for Pelosi and the new Dem House.  

I agree with all this.

The repubs are going to scream border security and the dems are going to scream wall.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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17 minutes ago, toonkee said:

But Blue told me Democrats did all the terrible identity politics...what happened?

 

Trump is using democratic tactics which is funny because that is why you hate him.  His is out doing democrats at their own game.  the things you hate about Trump, democrats have been doing for decades.  It is hilarious to watch you cry about it.

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7 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Trump is using democratic tactics which is funny because that is why you hate him.  His is out doing democrats at their own game.  the things you hate about Trump, democrats have been doing for decades.  It is hilarious to watch you cry about it.

Dear genius,

That's a tweet from Chuck Grassley.

Sincerely,

Your daddy

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On 1/2/2019 at 7:08 PM, retrofade said:

So, Trump campaigned onbuilding this "big beautiful WALL" from sea to sea. He assured his adoring fans that Mexico was going to pay for said WALL. He said that Mexico was going to pay for the WALL over and over and over and over and over again from 2015 until well into his presidency. 

Now we sit here in 2019... the government is shutdown, and all because Trump wants the American taxpayers for pay for the WALL that he promised everyone Mexico would pay for. Not only that, but he's blaming that Democrats for not caring about border security as his way of trying to shift the blame. Furthermore, he and his mouthpieces at Faux are celebrating him for sticking to his guns by being willing to shutdown the government over a campaign promise.

The problem is that he's not shutting the government down over a campaign promise... because he promised that Mexico would pay for the WALL... but he wants the American taxpayers to pay for it now. His claims that his NAFTA replacement is making Mexico pay for the WALL are completely laughable for a couple of reasons. First, that agreement hasn't been ratified by Congress, so it hasn't even gone into effect yet, so Mexico couldn't have paid for the WALL. Secondly, that's just not how trade works. The US Government isn't directly getting the billions necessary to build this monument to Trump's ego from the trade agreement that hasn't taken effect yet. 

That brings me to my question for Trump supporters --- or those of you who claim that you don't like Trump but like his policies. Do you support this government shutdown over something that he promised that Mexico would pay for, and isn't a particularly cost effective or viable solution for true border security? Secondarily, do you believe that shutting down the government over the WALL is him keeping or breaking a campaign promise? 

Dude, you assumed Mexico was going to write a check and hand over the money for the wall? LOL. Of course they’d never do it.  You’re just upset that Mexico hasn’t paid on your terms of payment.  But no one cares what you want. Trump has said many times that Mexico will pay for the wall over time as we make money on a better trade deal with them. But he’s also said that we need some money upfront to get it going. 

An Economist/YouGov poll just came out and said that 93% of Americans think that illegal immigration is a problem for this country right now. 93%!!!!  What is really funny is not long ago Democrat’s were pushing for a wall because they felt illegal immigrants were taking work away from American union members. So the Dems went to battle to protect their unions. 

Well, eventually they realized that immigrants coming across the border eventually end up voting Dem down the road when they eventually becomes citizens. And they already have union support by default, so the Dems are covered. But this whole bunch of bullshit coming out of Pelosi and others that they’re disgusting with an unethical wall is hypocrisy at it’s best.

The Dems in the House and Senate are always ripping Trump for contradicting himself on issues. Pelosi and friends do the same thing. It’s like their delusional mindset doesn’t think about the fact that there are old video clips of them saying the exact opposite. They’re really just like Trump. If the roles were reversed and immigrants were voting 90/10 GOP when they got citizenship, the left would be screaming bloody murder that the border needs to be sealed with a wall being part of that plan.

kat.jpg

 

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6 hours ago, Nevada Convert said:

Dude, you assumed Mexico was going to write a check and hand over the money for the wall? LOL. Of course they’d never do it.  You’re just upset that Mexico hasn’t paid on your terms of payment.  But no one cares what you want. Trump has said many times that Mexico will pay for the wall over time as we make money on a better trade deal with them. But he’s also said that we need some money upfront to get it going. 

An Economist/YouGov poll just came out and said that 93% of Americans think that illegal immigration is a problem for this country right now. 93%!!!!  What is really funny is not long ago Democrat’s were pushing for a wall because they felt illegal immigrants were taking work away from American union members. So the Dems went to battle to protect their unions. 

Well, eventually they realized that immigrants coming across the border eventually end up voting Dem down the road when they eventually becomes citizens. And they already have union support by default, so the Dems are covered. But this whole bunch of bullshit coming out of Pelosi and others that they’re disgusting with an unethical wall is hypocrisy at it’s best.

The Dems in the House and Senate are always ripping Trump for contradicting himself on issues. Pelosi and friends do the same thing. It’s like their delusional mindset doesn’t think about the fact that there are old video clips of them saying the exact opposite. They’re really just like Trump. If the roles were reversed and immigrants were voting 90/10 GOP when they got citizenship, the left would be screaming bloody murder that the border needs to be sealed with a wall being part of that plan.

First - I never thought that Mexico would pay for Trump's wall. I'm merely holding his and his supporters feet to the fire on what Trump promised vs. what's actually happening. 

To your next point about illegal immigration. A WALL isn't going to as much to prevent illegal immigration as Trump and his sycophants are claiming. Illegal immigrants comprise 10.7M (3.3%) of the population of the United States, which is down 13% from it's peak of 12.2M (4%) in 2007. Illegal immigrants from Mexico has declined since 2007 from 6.9M to 5.4M. Illegal immigration to states along the border with Mexico have decreased significantly since 2007... California (-550,000), Arizona (-220,000), and New Mexico (-25,000). The changes in Texas weren't statistically significant. Interestingly enough, illegal immigrants increased in Louisiana (+15,000), New Jersey (+60,000), and Massachusetts (+35,000).

The only demographic that has seen an increase in illegal immigration has come from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, which increased from 1.5M in 2007 to 1.9M in 2016. 

As far as the argument some people have been making about illegal immigrants taking jobs from Americans... there are approximately 7.8M illegal immigrants in the workforce, with 39% of them working in either farming or construction occupations. Overall illegal immigrant population in the workforce is down 4.8% from 2007.

Overall, illegal immigration is down, 66% of illegal immigrants have been in the United States for 10+ years, while only 18% have been in the country for five years or less.

Here's a breakdown of the regions of origin...

  1. Mexico (5.45M)
  2. Central America (1.85M)
  3. Asia (1.3M)
  4. South America (650k)
  5. Europe (500k)
  6. Caribbean (450k)
  7. Africa (230k)
  8. Middle East (140k)

That's a good 25% of illegal immigrants that are coming from areas other than the southern border. During FY17, a full 700k people overstayed their Visas... and 90% of those overstays came from places other than Mexico or Central America. The number of visa overstays was about 30x the number of border apprehensions. Additionally, the number of annual illegal arrivals is down 46% from their 2002-2007 peak of 715k/yr to 386k/yr from 2011-2016. From 2011 - 2016, 42% of illegal immigrants came from Mexico or the Northern Triangle, whilc 58% came from Asia or other countries. That's about 880k in five years from Mexico/Northern Triangle and 1.2M from the rest of the world... who are more than likely not coming here via the southern border given the visa overstay numbers. 

I can agree that illegal immigration is indeed a problem, but it's not the national crisis that Trump is lying in order to try and justify declaring a national emergency to build his WALL. Overall illegal immigration is on a downward trend over the last decade, and the number of long-term residents has increased exponentially in that time. 

Sources
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

 

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2 hours ago, retrofade said:

First - I never thought that Mexico would pay for Trump's wall. I'm merely holding his and his supporters feet to the fire on what Trump promised vs. what's actually happening. 

To your next point about illegal immigration. A WALL isn't going to as much to prevent illegal immigration as Trump and his sycophants are claiming. Illegal immigrants comprise 10.7M (3.3%) of the population of the United States, which is down 13% from it's peak of 12.2M (4%) in 2007. Illegal immigrants from Mexico has declined since 2007 from 6.9M to 5.4M. Illegal immigration to states along the border with Mexico have decreased significantly since 2007... California (-550,000), Arizona (-220,000), and New Mexico (-25,000). The changes in Texas weren't statistically significant. Interestingly enough, illegal immigrants increased in Louisiana (+15,000), New Jersey (+60,000), and Massachusetts (+35,000).

The only demographic that has seen an increase in illegal immigration has come from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, which increased from 1.5M in 2007 to 1.9M in 2016. 

As far as the argument some people have been making about illegal immigrants taking jobs from Americans... there are approximately 7.8M illegal immigrants in the workforce, with 39% of them working in either farming or construction occupations. Overall illegal immigrant population in the workforce is down 4.8% from 2007.

Overall, illegal immigration is down, 66% of illegal immigrants have been in the United States for 10+ years, while only 18% have been in the country for five years or less.

Here's a breakdown of the regions of origin...

  1. Mexico (5.45M)
  2. Central America (1.85M)
  3. Asia (1.3M)
  4. South America (650k)
  5. Europe (500k)
  6. Caribbean (450k)
  7. Africa (230k)
  8. Middle East (140k)

That's a good 25% of illegal immigrants that are coming from areas other than the southern border. During FY17, a full 700k people overstayed their Visas... and 90% of those overstays came from places other than Mexico or Central America. The number of visa overstays was about 30x the number of border apprehensions. Additionally, the number of annual illegal arrivals is down 46% from their 2002-2007 peak of 715k/yr to 386k/yr from 2011-2016. From 2011 - 2016, 42% of illegal immigrants came from Mexico or the Northern Triangle, whilc 58% came from Asia or other countries. That's about 880k in five years from Mexico/Northern Triangle and 1.2M from the rest of the world... who are more than likely not coming here via the southern border given the visa overstay numbers. 

I can agree that illegal immigration is indeed a problem, but it's not the national crisis that Trump is lying in order to try and justify declaring a national emergency to build his WALL. Overall illegal immigration is on a downward trend over the last decade, and the number of long-term residents has increased exponentially in that time. 

Sources
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

 

All you need to know about the wall having a significant impact is this. Trump obviously made the wall a big part of his candidacy, and when it appeared Trump was a serious candidate and could win, the Mexican drug cartels put a hit out on him. Most notable in threatening Trump is the legendary POS “El Chapo” drug kingpin who personality put a $100 million bounty on him. The cartels don’t want the wall. If it’ll slow down the cartels, it’ll slow down everything. The wall by itself won’t stop smugglers and immigrants, but it plays a big roll. 

kat.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, retrofade said:

First - I never thought that Mexico would pay for Trump's wall. I'm merely holding his and his supporters feet to the fire on what Trump promised vs. what's actually happening. 

To your next point about illegal immigration. A WALL isn't going to as much to prevent illegal immigration as Trump and his sycophants are claiming. Illegal immigrants comprise 10.7M (3.3%) of the population of the United States, which is down 13% from it's peak of 12.2M (4%) in 2007. Illegal immigrants from Mexico has declined since 2007 from 6.9M to 5.4M. Illegal immigration to states along the border with Mexico have decreased significantly since 2007... California (-550,000), Arizona (-220,000), and New Mexico (-25,000). The changes in Texas weren't statistically significant. Interestingly enough, illegal immigrants increased in Louisiana (+15,000), New Jersey (+60,000), and Massachusetts (+35,000).

The only demographic that has seen an increase in illegal immigration has come from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, which increased from 1.5M in 2007 to 1.9M in 2016. 

As far as the argument some people have been making about illegal immigrants taking jobs from Americans... there are approximately 7.8M illegal immigrants in the workforce, with 39% of them working in either farming or construction occupations. Overall illegal immigrant population in the workforce is down 4.8% from 2007.

Overall, illegal immigration is down, 66% of illegal immigrants have been in the United States for 10+ years, while only 18% have been in the country for five years or less.

Here's a breakdown of the regions of origin...

  1. Mexico (5.45M)
  2. Central America (1.85M)
  3. Asia (1.3M)
  4. South America (650k)
  5. Europe (500k)
  6. Caribbean (450k)
  7. Africa (230k)
  8. Middle East (140k)

That's a good 25% of illegal immigrants that are coming from areas other than the southern border. During FY17, a full 700k people overstayed their Visas... and 90% of those overstays came from places other than Mexico or Central America. The number of visa overstays was about 30x the number of border apprehensions. Additionally, the number of annual illegal arrivals is down 46% from their 2002-2007 peak of 715k/yr to 386k/yr from 2011-2016. From 2011 - 2016, 42% of illegal immigrants came from Mexico or the Northern Triangle, whilc 58% came from Asia or other countries. That's about 880k in five years from Mexico/Northern Triangle and 1.2M from the rest of the world... who are more than likely not coming here via the southern border given the visa overstay numbers. 

I can agree that illegal immigration is indeed a problem, but it's not the national crisis that Trump is lying in order to try and justify declaring a national emergency to build his WALL. Overall illegal immigration is on a downward trend over the last decade, and the number of long-term residents has increased exponentially in that time. 

Sources
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

 

Lets not build a wall because it doesn't prevent people who overstay their visa's.  Thats your reasoning?  So don't go after people who overstay their visa's because it doesn't take into account those who enter illegally too then right?  dumb logic there. 

Again, not talking about a 1900 mile wall here.  There are some areas that most definitely need a wall or replace the joke of a fence that is there now.  
Trump should come out and say, if gov't can't spend the $5B for wall, then he will approve a deal that has ZERO $ going to any foreign countries as well.  And change the law to allow easier deportation of illegals caught at the border.  

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16 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Lets not build a wall because... it doesn't prevent people who overstay their visa's.  Thats your reasoning?  So don't go after people who overstay their visa's because it doesn't take into account those who enter illegally too then right?  dumb logic there. 

Again, not talking about a 1900 mile wall here.  There are some areas that most definitely need a wall or replace the joke of a fence that is there now.  
Trump should come out and say, if gov't can't spend the $5B for wall, then he will approve a deal that has ZERO $ going to any foreign countries as well.  And change the law to allow easier deportation of illegals caught at the border.  

it's a ridiculously inefficient use of our tax dollars.

If the fencing needs to be improved/replaced/extended in some areas, why doesn't Trump say so and push for this. He'd win.  

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25 minutes ago, pokerider said:

Lets not build a wall because it doesn't prevent people who overstay their visa's.  Thats your reasoning?  So don't go after people who overstay their visa's because it doesn't take into account those who enter illegally too then right?  dumb logic there. 

Again, not talking about a 1900 mile wall here.  There are some areas that most definitely need a wall or replace the joke of a fence that is there now.  
Trump should come out and say, if gov't can't spend the $5B for wall, then he will approve a deal that has ZERO $ going to any foreign countries as well.  And change the law to allow easier deportation of illegals caught at the border.  

When did I say any of that? I agreed that there is an issue with illegal immigration that needs to be dealt with... but the wall that Trump is *still* demanding, and yes he wants his full wall according to what he said late last week, is nothing more than a monument to his ego. It is in no way an efficient use of funds, and like I said, serves only as a monument to his ego... because he promised that a wall would be built. Hell, he promised that a wall would be built and that Mexico would pay for is 200+ times on the campaign trail. 

If he'd drop the ridiculous "big beautiful wall" shit, and simply say that we need to shore up fencing where it's needed, and potentially expand it in other areas, he'd have an easy win. 

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31 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

All you need to know about the wall having a significant impact is this. Trump obviously made the wall a big part of his candidacy, and when it appeared Trump was a serious candidate and could win, the Mexican drug cartels put a hit out on him. Most notable in threatening Trump is the legendary POS “El Chapo” drug kingpin who personality put a $100 million bounty on him. The cartels don’t want the wall. If it’ll slow down the cartels, it’ll slow down everything. The wall by itself won’t stop smugglers and immigrants, but it plays a big roll. 

The reason Trump talked about the wall to begin with was a memory trick from Roger Stone and Sam Nunberg, so he wouldn't forget to talk about immigration.

Speaking to the New York Times, former Trump political adviser Sam Nunberg recalled how he coordinated with fellow adviser Roger Stone as they came up with the wall idea as a tool to remind Trump to talk about his plans to crack down on illegal immigration. With Trump following Nunberg and Stone’s advice and mentioning the wall in his rallies, the would-be president got “rapturous cheers” from conservative voters, leading him to continue bringing it up as he pushed forward with his campaign.

https://www.inquisitr.com/5237627/trump-border-wall-memory-trick/

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