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Nevada/UNLV & NSHE funding forumula and structure

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Not sure if this should be on the OT board, but I thought this was interesting. 

This event was essentially a roast of the Board of Regents, Chancellor, and the current funding model. The video is quite long but I've included some quick summaries. 

Essentially they want (these are mostly UNLV professors speaking):

-A "University of Nevada Equity Act" which gives equal funding to both universities, and considers them both land grants (Sandoval vetoed a bill that would've considered UNLV a land grant).

-To create separate boards for the Community Colleges (every state except Hawaii, Alaska, and North Dakota functions this way).

-Replace NSHE with a "Nevada Office of Higher Education" that operates as a state agency, move it to Carson City and reduce the number of employees from 240 to 70.

-To reduce to the power of the chancellor, they argue he micromanaged and scared off Jessup which caused the med school to lose significant funding

-They were complaining that Nevada was building beautiful new facilities, while UNLVs campus isn't nice.

-They were complaining that Nevada received state money to help recruit students from Vegas.

-The want to revise the current funding model that was agreed to in 2011. Every state institution has had a decrease in funding except Nevada:

funding formula

 

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2018/12/12/professors-donors-make-case-for-reining-in-nshe/

 

I know I'm missing some more info, but it was definitely an interesting watch and they made some very good points. This is the first time that a UNLV graduate has ever been governor, and I'm sure we'll see some big changes coming to education and funding. 

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3 hours ago, bigd said:

Not sure if this should be on the OT board, but I thought this was interesting. 

This event was essentially a roast of the Board of Regents, Chancellor, and the current funding model. The video is quite long but I've included some quick summaries. 

Essentially they want (these are mostly UNLV professors speaking):

-A "University of Nevada Equity Act" which gives equal funding to both universities, and considers them both land grants (Sandoval vetoed a bill that would've considered UNLV a land grant).

-To create separate boards for the Community Colleges (every state except Hawaii, Alaska, and North Dakota functions this way).

-Replace NSHE with a "Nevada Office of Higher Education" that operates as a state agency, move it to Carson City and reduce the number of employees from 240 to 70.

-To reduce to the power of the chancellor, they argue he micromanaged and scared off Jessup which caused the med school to lose significant funding

-They were complaining that Nevada was building beautiful new facilities, while UNLVs campus isn't nice.

-They were complaining that Nevada received state money to help recruit students from Vegas.

-The want to revise the current funding model that was agreed to in 2011. Every state institution has had a decrease in funding except Nevada:

funding formula

 

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2018/12/12/professors-donors-make-case-for-reining-in-nshe/

 

I know I'm missing some more info, but it was definitely an interesting watch and they made some very good points. This is the first time that a UNLV graduate has ever been governor, and I'm sure we'll see some big changes coming to education and funding. 

The reason that Nevada received more funding is because it’s graduation rate increased. 

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I don’t think the state legislature can strip us of our land grant status and have it jointly shared between us and UNLV.  Sandoval vetoed that when they tried.  I doubt Sisolak will veto it and I’m sure it would be challenged in the Courts. 

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5 minutes ago, mugtang said:

I don’t think the state legislature can strip us of our land grant status and have it jointly shared between us and UNLV.  Sandoval vetoed that when they tried.  I doubt Sisolak will veto it and I’m sure it would be challenged in the Courts. 

My hope is the Sisolak increases the funding to the entire system. Sandoval did. I doubt Laxalt would have funded the system better. At the end of the day, the state only funds 30 percent of the system for Vegas and Nevada anyway. Maybe spending $100m on sports wasn’t the best use of its money?

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1 hour ago, mugtang said:

I don’t think the state legislature can strip us of our land grant status and have it jointly shared between us and UNLV.  Sandoval vetoed that when they tried.  I doubt Sisolak will veto it and I’m sure it would be challenged in the Courts. 

Does anything meaningful come with "land grant status"?  Honestly just asking.  Don't know.

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2 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Does anything meaningful come with "land grant status"?  Honestly just asking.  Don't know.

I was wondering the same.

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1 hour ago, NevadaFan said:

The reason that Nevada received more funding is because it’s graduation rate increased. 

You guys always pushed the narrative that "Nevada" was just harmless sports branding but you're little scheme is working. I hear and read the school itself being referred to as Nevada or the University of Nevada all the time now.

Di*kheads

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5 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Does anything meaningful come with "land grant status"?  Honestly just asking.  Don't know.

 

2 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

I was wondering the same.

I think there are additional federal grants that come with being the land grant institution, but I’m not 100% sure on that.  The South has argued that the land grant was to the NSHE and not UNR.  But the NSHE didn’t exist when the grant was made so :shrug:.  For the people who are pushing to change this, I view it more as their being insecure and the feeling that UNLV is inferior to UNR so they will do whatever they can to “right” it.  I’m not saying all UNLV people care about it but some do and they fall into that category for me. 

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2 hours ago, NevadaFan said:

The reason that Nevada received more funding is because it’s graduation rate increased. 

Yeah maybe my memory is bad, but I remember UNLV was in support of the new funding formula. Before that Nevada received more money due to having older buildings and higher maintenance costs. So they changed the formula to be based on student success and other measures. Now that it isn't helping them, they're bitching again...

Based on the numbers he provided, the funding gap between has actually shrunk. Its really the Community Colleges that are suffering. And I agree there is absolutely no reason that they should be in the same system with the same board of regents. 

Nevada definitely needs to make some changes. 

Like Nevadafan said, I don't like Sisolak at all, but hopefully he'll support more funding to our universities. As a state we're attracting some good companies, we need to start promoting education.

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15 minutes ago, mugtang said:

 

I think there are additional federal grants that come with being the land grant institution, but I’m not 100% sure on that.  The South has argued that the land grant was to the NSHE and not UNR.  But the NSHE didn’t exist when the grant was made so :shrug:.  For the people who are pushing to change this, I view it more as their being insecure and the feeling that UNLV is inferior to UNR so they will do whatever they can to “right” it.  I’m not saying all UNLV people care about it but some do and they fall into that category for me. 

If it is just a reputation thing, who gives a shit. However, if it increases research dollars, I don't see why UNLV shouldn't fight for it. My feeling is it is just a reputation thing.

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16 minutes ago, mugtang said:

 

I think there are additional federal grants that come with being the land grant institution, but I’m not 100% sure on that.  The South has argued that the land grant was to the NSHE and not UNR.  But the NSHE didn’t exist when the grant was made so :shrug:.  For the people who are pushing to change this, I view it more as their being insecure and the feeling that UNLV is inferior to UNR so they will do whatever they can to “right” it.  I’m not saying all UNLV people care about it but some do and they fall into that category for me. 

It's a tough one to parse out for me.  I was always under the understanding that the intent was supposed to have UNLV be a co-equal branch of the University of Nevada but let's face it, UNR is not interested in that and they work to secure any amount of status over UNLV that they can.

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1 hour ago, toonkee said:

It's a tough one to parse out for me.  I was always under the understanding that the intent was supposed to have UNLV be a co-equal branch of the University of Nevada but let's face it, UNR is not interested in that and they work to secure any amount of status over UNLV that they can.

How about we read up on the Morrill Act(s) and the historical context of what It means to be a Land-grant college/university?

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university

There is no historical precedent for sharing Land-grant status within a state unless, as defined by the second Morrill Act, yours was a Confederate state in need of offering equal opportunity to persons of color (leading to the establishment of many historically black colleges and universities) or qualified as a college for Native Americans in 1994 and were given cash in lieu of land in order to garner land-grant status. 

Based on the above, it’s inaccurate (and silly) of you to make this specific issue into a “UNR is trying to keep UNLV down ‘cause status!” argument. Suggesting that Nevada, Reno share with or transfer to Nevada, Las Vegas the Land-grant status that was fundamental in the establishment of the University of Nevada (later , Reno) is an attempt, historically one of many, by UNLV supporters to steal its heritage or otherwise make equal or elevate UNLV above UNR without actually putting in the time or doing the work that would make that a reality.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Posturedoc said:

How about we read up on the Morrill Act(s) and the historical context of what It means to be a Land-grant college/university?

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university

There is no historical precedent for sharing Land-grant status within a state unless, as defined by the second Morrill Act, yours was a Confederate state in need of offering equal opportunity to persons of color (leading to the establishment of many historically black colleges and universities) or qualified as a college for Native Americans in 1994 and were given cash in lieu of land in order to garner land-grant status. 

Based on the above, it’s inaccurate (and silly) of you to make this specific issue into a “UNR is trying to keep UNLV down ‘cause status!” argument. Suggesting that Nevada, Reno share with or transfer to Nevada, Las Vegas the Land-grant status that was fundamental in the establishment of the University of Nevada (later , Reno) is an attempt, historically one of many, by UNLV supporters to steal its heritage or otherwise make equal or elevate UNLV above UNR without actually putting in the time or doing the work that would make that a reality.

 

 

Face!

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4 minutes ago, Posturedoc said:

How about we read up on the Morrill Act(s) and the historical context of what It means to be a Land-grant college/university?

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university

There is no historical precedent for sharing Land-grant status within a state unless, as defined by the second Morrill Act, yours was a Confederate state in need of offering equal opportunity to persons of color (leading to the establishment of many historically black colleges and universities) or qualified as a college for Native Americans in 1994 and were given cash in lieu of land in order to garner land-grant status. 

Based on the above, it’s inaccurate (and silly) of you to make this specific issue into a “UNR is trying to keep UNLV down ‘cause status!” argument. Suggesting that Nevada, Reno share with or transfer to Nevada, Las Vegas the Land-grant status that was fundamental in the establishment of the University of Nevada (later , Reno) is an attempt, historically one of many, by UNLV supporters to steal its heritage or otherwise make equal or elevate UNLV above UNR without actually putting in the time or doing the work that would make that a reality.

 

 

Easy there, Dr. Smug.

My response to Mug was intended to be more generalized regarding the relationship between the two schools.

For the record I do not care about the land grant title and this is honestly the first time I've heard there was ever talk of sharing it with UNLV.  That's why I asked if there was even any benefit to it. That was an initiative that happened long before UNLV's existence however if UNR gets benefits from that perhaps UNLV should receive some sort of equal benefit as again, they are supposed to be "sister" branches of the University of Nevada, so I'm sure you can understand why where there are concerns or questions in the areas where inequity exists or is even perceived.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Slapdad said:

Face!

Ass!

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3 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Ass!

Butthurt!

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I care not about "land grant." If it doesn't bring the school more money, it's irrelevant. Applicants are looking for the best programs, not whether a school is a land grant or not.

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2 hours ago, toonkee said:

Easy there, Dr. Smug.

My response to Mug was intended to be more generalized regarding the relationship between the two schools.

For the record I do not care about the land grant title and this is honestly the first time I've heard there was ever talk of sharing it with UNLV.  That's why I asked if there was even any benefit to it. That was an initiative that happened long before UNLV's existence however if UNR gets benefits from that perhaps UNLV should receive some sort of equal benefit as again, they are supposed to be "sister" branches of the University of Nevada, so I'm sure you can understand why where there are concerns or questions in the areas where inequity exists or is even perceived.  

 

Okie-dokie Mr. Imprecise. It’s difficult to infer your response to Mug as anything other than a reply to the land-grant discussion in this thread, since that was the primary topic of both your post and his as well as almost all of the posts leading up to those two. Your only indication that it might be a general commentary on the relationship between the universities was to accuse UNR of always working “to secure any amount of status over UNLV that they can,” as if UNLV is somehow the forever-suffering victim of a policy of suppression by the evil folks from the north. This is a false narrative.

Keeping with the unusual southern Nevada centric interpretation of higher ed in this state, this suggestion that UNLV should receive some sort of compensation for “benefits” bestowed upon Nevada (, Reno) before UNLV ever existed in order to produce a co-equal institution of higher learning doesn’t make sense. This thinking ignores the ~90 year head start in program and facilities development of the older institution and falls neatly into the that mode of thought (and historical action) of UNLV attempting to make itself into an equivalent or superior university to UNR without doing all the grunt work necessary to make it so. 

I want to be clear that I support higher ed in Nevada. That includes UNLV. A better educated population would go a long way toward making this state a better place to live. What I do not support is one institution benefiting at the expense of the other/others, as much as is practical. Unfortunately, the demographics of the state (two population centers), the historical rivalry between these two regions and the comparatively terrible financial support education receives from the state exacerbates the differences and disagreements between the two universities. 

One final thought. This academic rivalry has been exaggerated on this forum by our athletic rivalr. I’m not denying its (the academic rivalry) existence, but having been pretty close to it (from the UNR side) for most of my adult life, I can tell you that the folks in charge of both universities (much less so the Regents, who too often have been the primary source of discord between the institutions, and university boosters and politicians) have for the past 40 years worked together for the mutual benefit of the university system far, far more often than they have been at odds with each other. I hope this cooperative approach continues, though I’m far less certain with Sisolak, the worst of the provincial regents while he held that position, as governor (and I voted for the guy, because Laxalt was a hard no for me). 

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Washoe County and Clark County have destroyed the community college system that used to serve the rurals.   We can't even get teleconference classes anymore, it is too difficult to set up a camera I guess.

Just like we used to have some mental health services and roving DMV personnel the powers in the South have sucked up all that money for themselves.

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3 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Washoe County and Clark County have destroyed the community college system that used to serve the rurals.   We can't even get teleconference classes anymore, it is too difficult to set up a camera I guess.

Just like we used to have some mental health services and roving DMV personnel the powers in the South have sucked up all that money for themselves.

Maybe you can get the deadbeat mines to fork over some of the billions it ships to Oh Canada next year?

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