Poll for Fresno State fans

[utenation]

35 minutes ago, CPslograd said:

That 7_6 ASU team you are inferring is mediocre beat the Utes ass, didnt they?

Sure. We can play this game all day. Utah beat many teams that beat ASU. That’s the way it goes in a conference where 8-9 teams have similar talent, most teams have a decent chance to beat anyone.  We also played them with Harry on the road. Kind of a big deal. Harry was a huge part of all their wins. Much different game if Harry played in the bowl game.

There might be 2-3 teams in this conference with good or decent talent. The weekly grind is much different than here.

[utenation]

1 hour ago, ridgeview2 said:

Winning hasn't gone to my head, I just know for a fact that we are better than at the very least half of the PAC 12. If we played USC this year then I have no doubt in my mind that we would have beaten them. Hell, UNLV took them into the 4th quarter only down by 5. Next year the Trojans will have growing pains adjusting to a new offense system and our defense is more reloading than rebuilding so I like our chances in the Coliseum. As for Washington, we had just played Alabama in Tuscaloosa the week prior, Marcus McMarion wasn't our QB and this team just wasn't ready for those types of games yet. Give Tedford another year or 2 and I'd like to see that rematch with Washington. This Bulldog team would place 2nd in the PAC 12 South (Colorado, Arizona, USC were trash this year and we beat UCLA and ASU). We would probably place 4th in the North. Oregon State is horrendous and I like our chances against Cal and Stanford. Say what you want, but honestly that's how I feel judging from what I've seen from this team and what they have been able to accomplish. 

First off, I agree Fresno is a great team and honestly probably would have competed fairly well in a down P12 based on their starters. Where you run into trouble is depth doing it weekly rather than a few games a year. 

In the BCS era, Utah was probably the best G5 team at taking P5 skins so I see why people might think it translates to conference placement in a power league. Guess what? It doesn’t. It really does take years to build the depth you need to make it all the way through a season. When you play bigger, faster, stronger dudes every week, injuries pile up much faster and the parity is greater.

Look no further than our 2011-2013 seasons as an example of our lack of depth and talent being exposed. This was coming off 2 10 win ranked seasons in our final years of the MWC.

It took Utah many recruiting classes and resources to change style and build the depth to compete at a high level and we will never have built in recruiting advantages that some P12 teams have.

Utah won 3 of their last 4 games with a back up QB and a back up RB and damn near beat Washington to play in the Rose Bowl. I highly doubt most G5 teams can absorb that and win in a power league. Depth matters.

[CPslograd]

6 hours ago, utenation said:

Sure. We can play this game all day. Utah beat many teams that beat ASU. That’s the way it goes in a conference where 8-9 teams have similar talent, most teams have a decent chance to beat anyone.  We also played them with Harry on the road. Kind of a big deal. Harry was a huge part of all their wins. Much different game if Harry played in the bowl game.

There might be 2-3 teams in this conference with good or decent talent. The weekly grind is much different than here.

Sure, but youre a Utes fan, right?  So thats why Im talking about Utah.

the weekley grind is different in the Pac, thats true.   But Fresno would have had as good a chance as anybody in the South this year, including Utah.

[ZK686]

6 hours ago, utenation said:

Sure. We can play this game all day. Utah beat many teams that beat ASU. That’s the way it goes in a conference where 8-9 teams have similar talent, most teams have a decent chance to beat anyone.  We also played them with Harry on the road. Kind of a big deal. Harry was a huge part of all their wins. Much different game if Harry played in the bowl game.

There might be 2-3 teams in this conference with good or decent talent. The weekly grind is much different than here.

You have to remember the resources too though. 

I'd like to think if the Dogs were in the PAC with PAC resources, we'd compete with the weekly grind too. 

Fresno State might not be beating the best teams in the PAC, but we're doing good with what we have to work with.

[Bulldog Rob]

6 hours ago, utenation said:

When you play bigger, faster, stronger dudes every week, injuries pile up much faster...

Not picking on you here Ute, I've seen this claim countless times over the years and took it as gospel myself.  Is there any evidence that shows injuries are more prevalent on P5 teams?   That said you are right about depth, that's the real advantage for P5 teams when those injuries do occur.  

 

I think Fresno is an 8-4 or 7-5 team in the Pac this year.  UW and Wazzu are better, we're on par with Oregon, Utah and Stanford and better than the rest.  

[utenation]

1 hour ago, ZK686 said:

You have to remember the resources too though. 

I'd like to think if the Dogs were in the PAC with PAC resources, we'd compete with the weekly grind too. 

Fresno State might not be beating the best teams in the PAC, but we're doing good with what we have to work with.

I agree 100% that if you gave Fresno the same resources, they would be fine.

[utenation]

43 minutes ago, Bulldog Rob said:

Not picking on you here Ute, I've seen this claim countless times over the years and took it as gospel myself.  Is there any evidence that shows injuries are more prevalent on P5 teams?   That said you are right about depth, that's the real advantage for P5 teams when those injuries do occur.  

 

I think Fresno is an 8-4 or 7-5 team in the Pac this year.  UW and Wazzu are better, we're on par with Oregon, Utah and Stanford and better than the rest.  

Sure there's plenty of evidence.. When the best recruits go to the best conferences, things move faster.. And when you play 9-10 P5 teams instead of 2-3, you get beat up faster.

 It's also a well known fact that G5 teams are thin after the 1's.. I've been on both sides of this.. I used to think that Utah would compete just fine because of our record against BCS teams..

I just get a kick out of some Fresno fans that are claiming "bitch" status because of a couple of wins over bad to average P12 teams.. Fresno also lost to a pretty average Minnesota team, so more proof that nothing is a given..

[ridgeview2]

26 minutes ago, utenation said:

Sure there's plenty of evidence.. When the best recruits go to the best conferences, things move faster.. And when you play 9-10 P5 teams instead of 2-3, you get beat up faster.

 It's also a well known fact that G5 teams are thin after the 1's.. I've been on both sides of this.. I used to think that Utah would compete just fine because of our record against BCS teams..

I just get a kick out of some Fresno fans that are claiming "bitch" status because of a couple of wins over bad to average P12 teams.. Fresno also lost to a pretty average Minnesota team, so more proof that nothing is a given..

True, but as most every one would agree on here if Fresno and Minnesota played that game 10 times Minny got the 1 time they would win. That last second INT was a freak of nature and we should have never been in that position to begin with if we had played to our strengths and not try to play B10 football. No excuses though that we lost and it stings like hell but that was the wake up call this team needed. 

[Bulldog Rob]

52 minutes ago, utenation said:

Sure there's plenty of evidence.. When the best recruits go to the best conferences, things move faster.. And when you play 9-10 P5 teams instead of 2-3, you get beat up faster.

 It's also a well known fact that G5 teams are thin after the 1's.. I've been on both sides of this.. I used to think that Utah would compete just fine because of our record against BCS teams..

I just get a kick out of some Fresno fans that are claiming "bitch" status because of a couple of wins over bad to average P12 teams.. Fresno also lost to a pretty average Minnesota team, so more proof that nothing is a given..

I'd like to see the evidence that shows P5 teams suffer more injuries or more severe injuries.  Do you have a link to a study or something along those lines?  I've never seen anything besides speculation to back up that claim.  

Yes, depth is certainly an issue.  G5 teams can convince 3 and 4 star guys to come and get plenty of playing time, but it's hard to get them to come sit on the bench.  

I certainly don't think we made the PAC our bitch and those who have are trolling or delusional.  But we easily finish in the top half of the conference which isn't bad with our budget and recruiting restraints.  

[utenation]

5 minutes ago, ridgeview2 said:

True, but as most every one would agree on here if Fresno and Minnesota played that game 10 times Minny got the 1 time they would win. That last second INT was a freak of nature and we should have never been in that position to begin with if we had played to our strengths and not try to play B10 football. No excuses though that we lost and it stings like hell but that was the wake up call this team needed. 

Just like Utah would probably beat ASU 8/10. But it didn’t happen. The likelihood that these games happen for Fresno would be far more frequent in P12.  There’s dozens of examples of this the last 5 years of lesser teams beating better P12 teams. 

[JADogs05]

ASU's D was Charmin soft. Was not impressed with them at all. Boise appeared to be better pretty much top to bottom and had better depth to boot. 

[Rofl_copter_dos]

1 minute ago, JADogs05 said:

ASU's D was Charmin soft. Was not impressed with them at all. Boise appeared to be better pretty much top to bottom and had better depth to boot. 

They were two plays from being straight up blown out.   

[utenation]

1 minute ago, Bulldog Rob said:

I'd like to see the evidence that shows P5 teams suffer more injuries or more severe injuries.  Do you have a link to a study or something along those lines?  I've never seen anything besides speculation to back up that claim.  

Yes, depth is certainly an issue.  G5 teams can convince 3 and 4 star guys to come and get plenty of playing time, but it's hard to get them to come sit on the bench.  

I certainly don't think we made the PAC our bitch and those who have are trolling or delusional.  But we easily finish in the top half of the conference which isn't bad with our budget and recruiting restraints.  

Why don’t you just ask your coach. I’m sure he’d tell you things are different in the P12 than the MWC. 

I mean, should I provide a link that the NFL is far more physical than college too? There’s far more future NFL guys in the P12 then the MWC.

[Bulldog Rob]

13 minutes ago, utenation said:

Why don’t you just ask your coach. I’m sure he’d tell you things are different in the P12 than the MWC. 

I mean, should I provide a link that the NFL is far more physical than college too? There’s far more future NFL guys in the P12 then the MWC.

Things are certainly different, but I'm not sure that corresponds to more injuries.  There are many factors other than speed and strength that lead to football injuries.  Coaching, skill level, conditioning, style of play, etc. all contribute.     You said there is evidence that P5 teams suffer more injuries and I'd like to see it.  

[utenation]

17 minutes ago, Bulldog Rob said:

Things are certainly different, but I'm not sure that corresponds to more injuries.  There are many factors other than speed and strength that lead to football injuries.  Coaching, skill level, conditioning, style of play, etc. all contribute.     You said there is evidence that P5 teams suffer more injuries and I'd like to see it.  

I’m not going to waste time searching for something that is basic common sense. Should I prove that water is wet too? But for the sake of your argument, let’s say there aren’t more injuries. 

It still doesn’t change a damn thing I said about competing in a stronger, deeper league.

[godogsgo]

lol @PAC12 fans stroking their ego.  PAC12 is a shit league this year and they cant handle it.

[kallaway]

pac 12 may be shit this year but mwc is usually shit every year except for 1-2 teams (3 this year, thank goodness). 

look, i get it.. let's not get carried away.  let's enjoy this and hopefully we can build on this momentum.  

[Bulldog Rob]

5 minutes ago, utenation said:

I’m not going to waste time searching for something that is basic common sense. Should I prove that water is wet too? But for the sake of your argument, let’s say there aren’t more injuries. 

It still doesn’t change a damn thing I said about competing in a stronger, deeper league.

So you got nothing.  You're oversimplifying a very complex issue.  Sure, P5 players on average, are slightly bigger, faster and stronger.  You claim this will lead to more injuries.  That may seem intuitive or like it should be common sense.  But P5 school also put a lot more resources into strength and conditioning programs which plays a huge part in reducing injuries.  They have deeper rosters meaning guys aren't forced to play through injuries or come back faster (re-injuries are a huge part of the issue) , they are more skilled and have better coaching which could lead to fewer injuries.  

And you're right, either way the PAC is a deeper, stronger league.