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mugtang

The U.S. isn’t as anti-immigrant as it’s made to seem

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This obviously doesn’t necessarily reflect the views of our president but instead the population as a whole.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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That doesn't surprise me at all, and in fact a lot of the people have suggested that this anti-immigration populism that is being pushed by some at the White House is (ironically) a European import.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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2 hours ago, bsu_alum9 said:

Since you can't really see it...

USA: 29% fewer/none, 44% about the same, 24% want more.

 

That is understating it as "about the same" level of immigration for us is higher than for many other nations. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Just now, Old_SD_Dude said:

And my anecdotal observation on here is that anti-immigrant sentiment increases along with distance from the southern border.

+1

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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58 minutes ago, happycamper said:

That is understating it as "about the same" level of immigration for us is higher than for many other nations. 

Yeah, it's pretty hard to make comparisons.

3.3% of Earth's population is living in a different country than birthplace. (244 Million)

20% of those live in the United States (47 Million) making up 14.3% of the United State's population (326 Million).

66 countries have a larger proportion of immigrants, but none have nearly as many overall.

United States is the most populous country (and only one in the top 8) that has a positive immigration rate. 

 

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First, we need to differentiate between legal and illegal immigration. Most Americans don’t have a problem with legal immigration where migrants provide a benefit to our country. The issue is with illegal immigrants that create a drain on social resources and take jobs from Americans. 

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Here's something interesting and relevant. Japan has a shrinking population, and thus a labor shortage, so they "fix" it by expanding work visas, with the understanding that the people can't stay.

 

Quote

Abe stressed the need for the new program, saying Japan is suffering from a nationwide labor shortage and the country needs more foreign workers.

He pledged to promptly build a solid operational framework that puts a ceiling on the number of foreign workers and limits the length of their work-stay, adding it is not an immigration policy.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20181210_38/

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3 minutes ago, CV147 said:

What in-demand jobs for Americans are being taken by illegal immigrants?

And what drain is there? 

I mean looking at the extremely bleak economic situation that Japan and former Soviet countries are looking at because of basically our demographic pyramid but no immigration any drain caused by illegal immigration is ameliorated by the macroeconomic benefits of not having a keystone shaped demographic chart. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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Most immigrants seek government assistance. However, their offspring will pay it back several times over.

I have never seen a third generation from an immigrant that wasn't thoroughly American. First generation, most hold to their mother countries. Second generation, most speak English fluently.

The drain is a temporary thing. Immigrants add strength to our country. 

I just wish we had a better system. Merit-based might be better.

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2 hours ago, CV147 said:

What in-demand jobs for Americans are being taken by illegal immigrants?

I can tell you for a fact that a lot of construction jobs that normally pay well are being done by illegals. Contractors get them on the cheap to lower their labor and bid costs. I’ve witnessed a crew of ten where no one spoke English except the foreman. And I’ve seen it on multiple jobs. 

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9 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

And my anecdotal observation on here is that anti-immigrant sentiment increases along with distance from the southern border.

That is ridiculous.  

My experience hunting quail in Arizona is the crime and illegals are quite a problem.  Especially for landowners around Nogales.

It isn't the immigrants though that they anyone is upset with.  It is the criminals, the illegals crossing the border in violation of the law.

 

Every industrialized country in the world except us controls immigration fiercely.   You hurt your countries people if you don't.

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Immigration like most things the democratic party stands for, they have to made it about tribes, hate and racism.  You make your decisions based on emotion not any kind of logic.  So that is what the democratic party gives you.  They divide us all into tribes and hope you buy into the emotion of us and them, and you obviously have.  What is kind of hilarious if it wasn't so sad.  Is Trump the person you all claim to hate has outdone the democrats with there own tribal strategy of, "us and them".   Trump has beat the democrats at their own game, he just made the media, immigrants, and the democratic party, "them".

How does it feel to be treated like democratic leaders have treated republicans for decades?  It doesn't seem like you all like it.

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This was somewhat heartening, but then I just saw Trump just tweeted some demagogic lie about how illegal immigrants bring violent crime and large-scale disease or something. And that 29% eats it up. 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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42 minutes ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

This was somewhat heartening, but then I just saw Trump just tweeted some demagogic lie about how illegal immigrants bring violent crime and large-scale disease or something. And that 29% eats it up. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Bob said:

Fair enough. You seem pro-immigration. Can I ask a question? Not snarky, I promise. In your opinion, in terms of numbers, what is the ideal number of immigrants per year?

What's the current number? 

Many folks say that they support legal immigration but the current administration wants to curtail the legal numbers also.

We are at very low unemployment. Our national birth rate is well below replacement level. We need more young folks here.

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