SDSU vs USD

[aztech]

6 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

We played uninspired. I wanted to say "too much hero ball," but the assist:FGA ratio was actually higher than it was against Illinois St (though both were far below the numbers in our three previous W's).

Having watched us play our Little Sister over the last four years, I've watched that squad get better each year. But f*ck that. There's no excuse for letting our Little Sister cvnt punt us out of our own gym. And just like the last time they beat us (2015, outdoors, in a f*cking baseball stadium) this time cost us an at-large bid as well.

Sorry, Nevada. The only way now we're playing in the One that Matters in March is by going through you in February. Fortunately, we're both used to that.

From what I've seen Dutcher is soft and the team plays accordingly.  I think he was an assistant too long and has difficulty changing his character, having to become a hard ass.  I've seen this in the working world when long time asst mgrs get promoted to mgrs.

[East Coast Aztec]

4 hours ago, soupslam1 said:

The SDSU program is not anything like it used to be. Guys like Polee, Spencer, Shepard, Allen, etal that played suffocating defense have been replaced with guys that couldn’t carry those guys jocks. No one is afraid of the Aztecs anymore. They have been replaced by Nevada as the bully of the MWC. 

Which makes it funny when the bully still gets beat by SDSU

[TheSanDiegan]

13 hours ago, Swoll Cracker said:

Holy moly, there's an awful lot of whining going on in this article.  

To borrow from Zeigler's article, no. And yes.

To understand the 'no,' you would have first had to be aware of the fact this is an ongoing issue, not a post-L whine. You would have had to know that the MVC Challenge had been protested by our AD and by Fish and his staff for damn near a decade.

And to understand why this is an issue, you'd have to appreciate the very real consequence of a MWC travel schedule when you're starting from San Diego (as opposed to O&D from a hub already located in BFE), additionally burdened by the travel requirements of the MVC Challenge. The former was a pragmatic argument put forth to justify a possible move to the Big West had our FB program and Boise jumped to the AAC, and the latter induced risks that outpaced any potential reward (the same risk/reward argument has been espoused for discontinuing our series with USD for as many years).

And as the article states, this isn't just a SDSU issue; it's a MWC issue. We all can suffer form sub-optimal scheduling. And unless you're content on being re-relegated to a one-bid league populated by a bunch of one-horse towns, this should be a concern for every MBB program in the conference.

Well, every program except maybe yours and Hoser.

[TheSanDiegan]

8 hours ago, aztech said:

From what I've seen Dutcher is soft and the team plays accordingly.  I think he was an assistant too long and has difficulty changing his character, having to become a hard ass.  I've seen this in the working world when long time asst mgrs get promoted to mgrs.

I would contend what we're witnessing is at least in part a product of the "framework of freedom' culture. I disagree about Dutch. He was the only 1st-year coach to make the tourney last year, and I think we will have a good chance at running the table in the MGCT just like we did last year.

[TheSanDiegan]

14 hours ago, jdgaucho said:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-sdsu-basketball-3-thoughts-usd-toreros-20181206-story.html

After reading this article, I'm back to my original observation of selfish AAU-style bullshit hero ball being the cause of our loss.

First half, which ended with a 7-pt lead: 8 assists on 22 shots in the first half, but just 2 assists on 22 shots in the 2nd half. 

That was the primary factor in shooting under 23% in the 2nd half as opposed to the comparably torrid 59% FGP in the first half. Smarter decisions, better ball movement.

Unlike ISU, where we got curbstomped from tip-off to buzzer, this time around it seemed as if we lost focus and went into coast mode for the latter 20 minutes. 

What I do put squarely on Dutch is letting these kids get into a headspace over both dumb fouls and bad calls where they aren't focused and continue to make dumb mistakes. Unfortunately, this tells me they could allow one bad loss to become two. Get a sports shrink on staff ffs... And if you already got one, get another. We have all the gifts needed to get back to the Dance. But the mental component needs to coagulate, as it runs mercurial at present - and IMO that's the HC's responsibility to lock down.

[soupslam1]

Put your head in the sand if you want, but SDSU is not the same basketball program they used to be under Fisher. 

[TheSanDiegan]

3 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Put your head in the sand if you want, but SDSU is not the same basketball program they used to be under Fisher. 

Yes, because if we don't think Dutch is the "wrong choice" (lulz) then we must think we're the same 34-3 squad we were in 2011. 

Trying to reduce inherently complicated subjects to an oversimplified binary condition is analogous to trying to cram a square peg in a round hole. Or as they call it at Truckdriver U, "critical thinking."

 

[soupslam1]

Call it what you want. I call it bad basketball. Lots of empty seats at Viejas seem to agree with me.

[TheSanDiegan]

20 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Call it what you want. I call it bad basketball. Lots of empty seats at Viejas seem to agree with me.

Would you like a table for one so you may continue your strawman argument by yourself, sir?

[blind_squirrel54]

29 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Put your head in the sand if you want, but SDSU is not the same basketball program they used to be under Fisher. 

 

21 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Call it what you want. I call it bad basketball. Lots of empty seats at Viejas seem to agree with me.

Straw man building day?

Edit: @TheSanDiegan beat me to it

[jdgaucho]

1 hour ago, TheSanDiegan said:

To borrow from Zeigler's article, no. And yes.

To understand the 'no,' you would have first had to be aware of the fact this is an ongoing issue, not a post-L whine. You would have had to know that the MVC Challenge had been protested by our AD and by Fish and his staff for damn near a decade.

And to understand why this is an issue, you'd have to appreciate the very real consequence of a MWC travel schedule when you're starting from San Diego (as opposed to O&D from a hub already located in BFE), additionally burdened by the travel requirements of the MVC Challenge. The former was a pragmatic argument put forth to justify a possible move to the Big West had our FB program and Boise jumped to the AAC, and the latter induced risks that outpaced any potential reward (the same risk/reward argument has been espoused for discontinuing our series with USD for as many years).

And as the article states, this isn't just a SDSU issue; it's a MWC issue. We all can suffer form sub-optimal scheduling. And unless you're content on being re-relegated to a one-bid league populated by a bunch of one-horse towns, this should be a concern for every MBB program in the conference.

Well, every program except maybe yours and Hoser.

 

The MVC challenge was a good idea initially when it still had Creighton and Wichita State.  Two leagues comparable in RPI.  Even without those two, Valley foes were better than home games vs SWAC foes, right?

If you don't want to participate in the A10 challenge, UC Sanra Barbara would gladly take your place for it.  Games against VCU, Saint Louis or Davidson? I'm down. It could open up  our recruiting into Philly, DC, Virginia and who knows where.

 

[TheSanDiegan]

23 minutes ago, jdgaucho said:

 

The MVC challenge was a good idea initially when it still had Creighton and Wichita State.  Two leagues comparable in RPI.  Even without those two, Valley foes were better than home games vs SWAC foes, right?

If you don't want to participate in the A10 challenge, UC Sanra Barbara would gladly take your place for it.  Games against VCU, Saint Louis or Davidson? I'm down. It could open up  our recruiting into Philly, DC, Virginia and who knows where.

 

Good point (re: the state of the MVC + Creighton and Wichita St), but given our ability to sked H&H with both the Pac12 and the WCC on a regular basis, our ability to sked Big Dub schools On Demand like we're streaming the shit, and our perennial OOC tourney, I think we're g2g with our OOC sked without having to travel to "Normal," Illinois for a road game against a sub-150 RPI opponent.

That being said, I agree that a once-every-other-year road trip against Temple, VCU, et al is a good thing, and having said A10 schools have to road trip it to the Old Lady is very cool. I'm down with the idea of an A10 challenge. IMO the issue is scheduling around those bi-annual Road Trips from Hell. 

[SleepingGiantFan]

18 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

We played uninspired. I wanted to say "too much hero ball," but the assist:FGA ratio was actually higher than it was against Illinois St (though both were far below the numbers in our three previous W's).

Having watched us play our Little Sister over the last four years, I've watched that squad get better each year. But f*ck that. There's no excuse for letting our Little Sister cvnt punt us out of our own gym. And just like the last time they beat us (2015, outdoors, in a f*cking baseball stadium) this time cost us an at-large bid as well.

Sorry, Nevada. The only way now we're playing in the One that Matters in March is by going through you in February. Fortunately, we're both used to that.

Hey, it's SDSU's year to play Santa Claus! Less than a month ago, we let UNLV beat us in football at our house for only the second time ever and the first time since they had a NC winning head coach and this time they had at the helm - cough, cough - Da Sanchize! And now in basketball we've let USD beat us at our house for what I think was the first since Steve Fisher was still using some players recruited by Fred Trenkle! As somebody who believes in the spirit of giving at Christmas time, I'm thrilled!

[SleepingGiantFan]

3 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

To borrow from Zeigler's article, no. And yes.

To understand the 'no,' you would have first had to be aware of the fact this is an ongoing issue, not a post-L whine. You would have had to know that the MVC Challenge had been protested by our AD and by Fish and his staff for damn near a decade.

And to understand why this is an issue, you'd have to appreciate the very real consequence of a MWC travel schedule when you're starting from San Diego (as opposed to O&D from a hub already located in BFE), additionally burdened by the travel requirements of the MVC Challenge. The former was a pragmatic argument put forth to justify a possible move to the Big West had our FB program and Boise jumped to the AAC, and the latter induced risks that outpaced any potential reward (the same risk/reward argument has been espoused for discontinuing our series with USD for as many years).

And as the article states, this isn't just a SDSU issue; it's a MWC issue. We all can suffer form sub-optimal scheduling. And unless you're content on being re-relegated to a one-bid league populated by a bunch of one-horse towns, this should be a concern for every MBB program in the conference.

Well, every program except maybe yours and Hoser.

Well said.

(Bob gave you a face palm but that was because you used words like "pragmatic," "espoused" and "induced" and he had to look up the definition.)

[Swoll Cracker]

4 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

To borrow from Zeigler's article, no. And yes.

To understand the 'no,' you would have first had to be aware of the fact this is an ongoing issue, not a post-L whine. You would have had to know that the MVC Challenge had been protested by our AD and by Fish and his staff for damn near a decade.

And to understand why this is an issue, you'd have to appreciate the very real consequence of a MWC travel schedule when you're starting from San Diego (as opposed to O&D from a hub already located in BFE), additionally burdened by the travel requirements of the MVC Challenge. The former was a pragmatic argument put forth to justify a possible move to the Big West had our FB program and Boise jumped to the AAC, and the latter induced risks that outpaced any potential reward (the same risk/reward argument has been espoused for discontinuing our series with USD for as many years).

And as the article states, this isn't just a SDSU issue; it's a MWC issue. We all can suffer form sub-optimal scheduling. And unless you're content on being re-relegated to a one-bid league populated by a bunch of one-horse towns, this should be a concern for every MBB program in the conference.

Well, every program except maybe yours and Hoser.

Remember when San Diego State used to to pride itself on being the best program in California and was willing to take on all comers?  When they used to brag about how many consecutive wins they had over California teams.  Now USD is nothing more than a nuisance, even though they are a Top 100 team that should be welcomed on the schedule.  

And San Diego State AD obviously agreed to the game date and time with USD.  Complaining about fatigue from having to travel most likely via charter then playing three days later on a date and time your own AD had control overhas the strong appearance of whining.

By the way, CSU will be back. Not this year and probably.not next year.  The rebuild is pretty serious after the scorched earth Eustachy left behind. Your compare to San Jose State is a nice attempt at a jab but is pretty ignorant.

[jdgaucho]

2 hours ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Hey, it's SDSU's year to play Santa Claus! Less than a month ago, we let UNLV beat us in football at our house for only the second time ever and the first time since they had a NC winning head coach and this time they had at the helm - cough, cough - Da Sanchize! And now in basketball we've let USD beat us at our house for what I think was the first since Steve Fisher was still using some players recruited by Fred Trenkle! As somebody who believes in the spirit of giving at Christmas time, I'm thrilled!

 

I hope you're still in a giving mood when CSUN rolls into Viejas on New Year's Day.  After coming up short vs UNM, they could use a couple wins in San Diego - that pretty little school gets 'em first.

[Guest #1Stunner]

5 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

To borrow from Zeigler's article, no. And yes.

To understand the 'no,' you would have first had to be aware of the fact this is an ongoing issue, not a post-L whine. You would have had to know that the MVC Challenge had been protested by our AD and by Fish and his staff for damn near a decade.

And to understand why this is an issue, you'd have to appreciate the very real consequence of a MWC travel schedule when you're starting from San Diego (as opposed to O&D from a hub already located in BFE), additionally burdened by the travel requirements of the MVC Challenge. The former was a pragmatic argument put forth to justify a possible move to the Big West had our FB program and Boise jumped to the AAC, and the latter induced risks that outpaced any potential reward (the same risk/reward argument has been espoused for discontinuing our series with USD for as many years).

And as the article states, this isn't just a SDSU issue; it's a MWC issue. We all can suffer form sub-optimal scheduling. And unless you're content on being re-relegated to a one-bid league populated by a bunch of one-horse towns, this should be a concern for every MBB program in the conference.

Well, every program except maybe yours and Hoser.

SDSU should immediately petition the WCC for membership.

They'd get the opportunity to join a stronger basketball conference, with much easier travel (mostly California).   No more travel to Laramie, Logan, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, Albuquerque. 

They'd be in a conference with their little sister, USD, too.

 

They could then join the AAC for football, or whatever floats their boat.

[SleepingGiantFan]

37 minutes ago, jdgaucho said:

I hope you're still in a giving mood when CSUN rolls into Viejas on New Year's Day.  After coming up short vs UNM, they could use a couple wins in San Diego - that pretty little school gets 'em first.

When CSUN still had a football team they came to what was then Jack Murphy Stadium to play the Aztecs. Despite us having a prolific offense including Marshall Faulk and Darnay Scott, the game was tied 17-17 at HT and we won only 34-17. Without trying to go back that far to check, IIRC CSUN's quarterback was then Sherdrick Bonner who went on to play for many years in the arena league and now does color on some MWC games.

When you're SDSU football and you get caught cheating, you get dinged by the NCAA when the big boys wouldn't. When you're CSUN football and you get caught cheating, your administration uses it as an excuse to eliminate the program.

[SleepingGiantFan]

1 hour ago, Swoll Cracker said:

Remember when San Diego State used to to pride itself on being the best program in California and was willing to take on all comers?  When they used to brag about how many consecutive wins they had over California teams.

For several years SDSU's basketball program wasn't just the best in California, it was the best in the western states not named Arizona or Gonzaga. Even now, SDSU has managed to sell out so many games and rise to such a level that there is no chance our basketball coach will be able to keep his job by having a mediocre team for more than a couple seasons. And despite what you might think, although our 2017-2018 team disappointed, it wasn't mediocre since it once again won the MWC tournament and came within one point of beating a Houston in the NCAAs which lost by a point or two in the second round. So if Dutcher doesn't right the ship by next season, his seat will be hot.

I'll admit SDSU football is not in the same category. Despite how much it has improved under Rocky, the program hasn't produced even one NFL star during that time nor challenged for the NY6 game even once. Therefore, if Rocky should decide to hang up his whistle in a couple years, his replacement will be able to stay around indefinitely with just .500 seasons. SDSU football should be better than that by now but it simply isn't and IMO nobody is as much to blame as the big-bucks alumni who haven't sufficiently opened their wallets and pressured the administration for more improvement. Maybe they've been holding back awaiting the building of a new stadium but if they don't change after that, the school better luck into finding another Don Coryell.

[SDSUfan]

6 hours ago, TheSanDiegan said:

After reading this article, I'm back to my original observation of selfish AAU-style bullshit hero ball being the cause of our loss.

First half, which ended with a 7-pt lead: 8 assists on 22 shots in the first half, but just 2 assists on 22 shots in the 2nd half. 

That was the primary factor in shooting under 23% in the 2nd half as opposed to the comparably torrid 59% FGP in the first half. Smarter decisions, better ball movement.

Unlike ISU, where we got curbstomped from tip-off to buzzer, this time around it seemed as if we lost focus and went into coast mode for the latter 20 minutes. 

What I do put squarely on Dutch is letting these kids get into a headspace over both dumb fouls and bad calls where they aren't focused and continue to make dumb mistakes. Unfortunately, this tells me they could allow one bad loss to become two. Get a sports shrink on staff ffs... And if you already got one, get another. We have all the gifts needed to get back to the Dance. But the mental component needs to coagulate, as it runs mercurial at present - and IMO that's the HC's responsibility to lock down.

Not big on excuse making and I agree there's just way too much 1v1 nonsense with Watson, Hemsley (1v3 or 1v the North Korean Army in his case) and McDaniels on the court but  the weekend travel and the illnesses had to play some part in the performance.  Also, not one to complain about the refs, they were equally incompetent, and we couldn't manage to take advantage of the fact the fouls were 9-2 in our favor early in the 2nd half, but I've watched a TON of college BB over the years and have never seen a game where 5 players foul out ( 3 of ours, 2 of theirs).

Credit to USD. they took us out of our game with some stellar perimeter defense and doubling and even tripling to post on drives and entry passes.On offense, were able to get clean shots near the end of the clock by making the extra pass and not panicking, a sign of a team that starts 4 seniors and a junior. They'll be a tough out  in the WCC this year.

I too am a...senior.... and therefore will likewise not panic at this stinker. I'll watch anxiously as our freshmen develop.. N Mensah has already surpassed Narain. I expect Arop to begin eating into Hemsley's minutes going forward.  Watson and Hemsley on the floor together for extended minutes is unsustainable.

One thing I didn't like was the body language down the stretch. Near the end on one of Watson's ill advised drive and kick plays, he threw it directly to a defender that Mitchell had to foul to prevent the breakaway.  Much barking and pointing ensued. Shakel looked pissed the entire game. McDaniels with the flagrent1 and Technical foul for running his yap.  These are problems that coaching needs to address before this shit gets out of hand.