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Well now that most of the "Wait until next year or the one after that crew have weighed in. 

I could care less about you thinking that I need to prove myself to you. Label me to try to minimize the value of my points. Change around what I said to try to make it look extreme. Use all of the same obvious tactics of trying to shout someone down. I could care less and could care less about engaging you guys. 

I hope that UNLV can not only have success but also continued success although I expect that my definition of what success is differs from yours. I hope that Marv can deliver and I guess that we'll all see. I'll measure that by the actual results on the floor though. You can keep telling me why it hasn't been done and I'll just keep waiting to see it done. Most of the coaches in the MWC have been in their programs as long or less than Marv. We'll use those as your examples. Time will tell...Go Rebels!

On the last note: I've had season tickets in the T&M since the day the doors opened, 1983. How about you? I'm a Rebels fan for 35 years and a bit before that. To this point I haven't been fan of Marv. Let Marv prove himself and if so I'll give him some respect. After the past 25 years I'm a show me first kind of guy and to this point he has't shown me much, other that recruiting form the HS level which I like. Until them I'll just call it like I see it. And by the way it is UNR. I've never used the N word .

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Oh yeah I'm also out of this conversation. It's pointless and has been done way too many times over the past decade or so. Tonight is another game where we are expected to win big over a lowly Big Sky team. Then on to that powerhouse Valpo. It could be fun.

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45 minutes ago, quickdraw said:

I could care less and could care less about engaging you guys.

At least you admit you care about being called out as a reno fan. 

And two posts later were still waiting on that example of the miraculous turnarounds you said were happening every day.

 

Change the subject to ticket sales. Duck backing up the claims you make.  Cool, but when youre wrong youre wrong. Some can admit it. Some cant. 

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2 hours ago, BestintheWest said:

Same morons stretching Dave Rices lifespan for 2 years too long after regression each year are the same dipshits expecting Menzies to turn around a rock bottom program in a year with progress shown each year.

No real logic behind these kind of folks.

You were the one that brought up Dave Rice. Nobody else did prior to your post. He’s been gone for awhile and has nothing to do with the on court product or attendance issue. 

It should be easy to turn around a program like UNLV, given the facilities and history, it doesn’t take 5-6 years. This isn’t New Mexico State, yet that’s how the roster construction is being treated. Heck, even Spoonhour took this team to the NIT after the Bayno fiasco. 

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42 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

It should be easy to turn around a program like UNLV, given the facilities and history, it doesn’t take 5-6 years. This isn’t New Mexico State, yet that’s how the roster construction is being treated. Heck, even Spoonhour took this team to the NIT after the Bayno fiasco. 

You sound like you have a stick up your ass for Menzies. The reason it is going to take 3 - 4 actual full recruiting classes is because Rice was so bad he got himself canned in the middle of a season. That is called CONTEXT.

The more you post, the less it seems you have the mental capacity to understand and consider context; which makes you seem less and less worth responding to or even reading. It also shows that you are not reading the posts above because this exact point has already been addressed.

You have not countered the reasons given, but YOU KEEP REGURGITATING THE SAME IDIOT COMPLAINTS. 

So why should anyone take your whining seriously?

BECAUSE [context] Rice went 8-10, 8-10, 10-8 in the mwc his final 3 seasons, it shows that as a coach Menzies requires a lot less talent and everything else as a coach to get the the exact same results as Rice. Menzies now as the program trending up in a big way one year coming off a dumpster fire. That deserves praise not whiny bitching. Were you not hugged enough as a child?

[Again context] Menzies took the program over at a MUCH LOWER POINT than Rice did, and in fact inherited a dumpster fire at historically low levels, THERE IS NOTHING EASY ABOUT THIS REBUILD! You are being completely unrealistic and showing exactly how little you know about basketball, the history of basketball and how programs have been built. 

If it were up to you Jay Wright would have been fired and is a bad coach. You make zero sense and sound silly repeating the same points while not responding to any of the information that contradicts your shallow view point.

Stop typing and start reading.

 

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I won't waste anytime telling anyone to STFU. Not that important to me. Nonetheless, comparing the situation Muss inherited at Reno to what Menzies inherited at UNLV is fatally flawed, disingenuous or reeks of an agenda. Also, just because Carter couldn't coach doesn't mean he couldn't recruit. He left Muss with a intact roster with 8 players returning anchored by experienced seniors AJ West, Marquese Coleman and Tyrone Criswell. Additionally, Muss was hired early enough and had time to meaningfully recruit, offer offical visits and add freshmen Cameron Oliver, Lindsey Drew and transfer Jordan Caroline. 

In contrast, Menzies stepped into a program that was in shambles and so bad off the national sports media called it a "self imposed death penalty"! Menzies inherited just 3 inexperienced players Tyrell Green, Jaylen Poser and Dwayne Morgan and that was it! He was hired so late in the recruiting cycle he was forced compile a roster of cast offs and replacement types that he would never have received a recruiting letter let alone an offer from UNLV. If that wasn't bad enough, Menzies had to recruit and reconstruct a roster with only one official visits to offer because assistant coaches Simon and Miller had burned them all before he was hired. That's how bad it was! Menzies only had one official visit to offer to fill 9 spots on the roster! 

If Menzies had taken over a UNLV program with 8 players returning and intact roster with Poyser,  Morgan, Green and Ben Carter, Jordan Cornish, Derrick Jones Jr, Stephen Zimmerman and Pat McCaw all returning and enough time to recruit and enough official visits to offer recruits to fill vacancies on the roster I could understand the argument. But that's not how it went down. It was a dumpster fire! 

 

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2 hours ago, qwelish said:

You sound like you have a stick up your ass for Menzies. The reason it is going to take 3 - 4 actual full recruiting classes is because Rice was so bad he got himself canned in the middle of a season. That is called CONTEXT.

The more you post, the less it seems you have the mental capacity to understand and consider context; which makes you seem less and less worth responding to or even reading. It also shows that you are not reading the posts above because this exact point has already been addressed.

You have not countered the reasons given, but YOU KEEP REGURGITATING THE SAME IDIOT COMPLAINTS. 

So why should anyone take your whining seriously?

BECAUSE [context] Rice went 8-10, 8-10, 10-8 in the mwc his final 3 seasons, it shows that as a coach Menzies requires a lot less talent and everything else as a coach to get the the exact same results as Rice. Menzies now as the program trending up in a big way one year coming off a dumpster fire. That deserves praise not whiny bitching. Were you not hugged enough as a child?

[Again context] Menzies took the program over at a MUCH LOWER POINT than Rice did, and in fact inherited a dumpster fire at historically low levels, THERE IS NOTHING EASY ABOUT THIS REBUILD! You are being completely unrealistic and showing exactly how little you know about basketball, the history of basketball and how programs have been built. 

If it were up to you Jay Wright would have been fired and is a bad coach. You make zero sense and sound silly repeating the same points while not responding to any of the information that contradicts your shallow view point.

Stop typing and start reading.

 

You are so angry, it’s comical. Just so easily triggered because I find the notion that Pacific is a measuring stick totally laughable. I don’t know where to start with your incoherent rant. Was I not hugged enough as a child... I would have Jay Wright fired? What are you even talking about? Sad. 

Nobody brought up Rice in this thread except somebody who cannot get over Rice. I’ve moved on and accepted the fact that he didn’t live up to the expectations. The (incompetent) administration at the time had plenty of time to find a replacement for Rice and ensure a decent transition. As we know, it was a complete and total circus. Of course people bailed, not just players and staff. Fans as well. Who wants to be a part of a dysfunctional program? 

It’s not Rice’s fault this team is ranked 201 in RPI and has the 222nd toughest schedule in the nation. That’s factual, and my previous posts had a reasoned “wait and see” approach with regards to how this season will shape up. Others had the same approach as well. 

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1 hour ago, Rosegreen said:

You are so angry, it’s comical. Just so easily triggered because I find the notion that Pacific is a measuring stick totally laughable. I don’t know where to start with your incoherent rant. Was I not hugged enough as a child... I would have Jay Wright fired? What are you even talking about? Sad. 

Nobody brought up Rice in this thread except somebody who cannot get over Rice. I’ve moved on and accepted the fact that he didn’t live up to the expectations. The (incompetent) administration at the time had plenty of time to find a replacement for Rice and ensure a decent transition. As we know, it was a complete and total circus. Of course people bailed, not just players and staff. Fans as well. Who wants to be a part of a dysfunctional program? 

It’s not Rice’s fault this team is ranked 201 in RPI and has the 222nd toughest schedule in the nation. That’s factual, and my previous posts had a reasoned “wait and see” approach with regards to how this season will shape up. Others had the same approach as well. 

I dont know how many times I have to say that Rice was brought up for CONTEXT of conference performance and due to him the roster was depleted which left the dumpster fire Menzies took over. The person who brought him up, and my use of Rice were meant for those purposes only! You mad about it? Sounds like it angry man. But that is the actual measuring stick. How do these coaches perform in conference. So far, Menzies has fared just as well starting from a much lower point and with a lot less talent. See? Context.

 

Youre also mad at Menzies, and said a dumpster fire on an epic level should be easily turned around. Thats just a very uninformed statement.  You dont know what youre talking about. And yes it is Rices fault the RPI is what it is because he finished with a losing record in conference 2 years in a row and then performed so poorly in the 3rd year that he got himself canned. That it is not his fault is your opinion, it doesnt become a fact because you say so. Just like the rest of your points dont make sense because you think it, and I am not angry just because you perceive my messages to be. Its also not an easy turnaround just because you pontificate on a message board that its easy. 

 

What I do know is that in the last 3 seasons: 

Lon Kruger           33 wins - 35 losses

Marvin Menzies    34 wins - 35 losses

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45 minutes ago, qwelish said:

I dont know how many times I have to say that Rice was brought up for CONTEXT of conference performance and due to him the roster was depleted which left the dumpster fire Menzies took over. The person who brought him up, and my use of Rice were meant for those purposes only! You mad about it? Sounds like it angry man. But that is the actual measuring stick. How do these coaches perform in conference. So far, Menzies has fared just as well starting from a much lower point and with a lot less talent. See? Context.

 

Youre also mad at Menzies, and said a dumpster fire on an epic level should be easily turned around. Thats just a very uninformed statement.  You dont know what youre talking about. And yes it is Rices fault the RPI is what it is because he finished with a losing record in conference 2 years in a row and then performed so poorly in the 3rd year that he got himself canned. That it is not his fault is your opinion, it doesnt become a fact because you say so. Just like the rest of your points dont make sense because you think it, and I am not angry just because you perceive my messages to be. Its also not an easy turnaround just because you pontificate on a message board that its easy. 

 

What I do know is that in the last 3 seasons: 

Lon Kruger           33 wins - 35 losses

Marvin Menzies    34 wins - 35 losses

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Menzies is taking an approach that virtually no program is doing, and that is purposefully avoiding transfers.  We will have ZERO transfers on scholarship next year, and I doubt there will be another non-P5 school that can say that.  He only brought in transfers in years one and two due to the massive rebuild he had to do.

Regarding conference, it’s hard to not see us dominating the conference starting in the next few years.  We will consistently have the most experienced, cohesive, and talented teams in the conference.

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I've always believed that in college sports you should give a coach at least 5 years to see what he can do before firing him, as long as there's reasonable improvement year to year and things are looking up. So far I've seen improvement each year under Menzies and he looks like he's trying to build a program that can eventually compete year after year instead of going for a grand slam every single year by bringing in 7 or 8 new players.  I like the players Marv is bringing in as I no longer care about star ratings and care more about getting good players who will stick around (experience matters unless your Coach K, Cal, Self, Williams, etc. and even then, if those guys could get their top recruits to stay 3 or 4 years, they could win 3 or 4 titles in a row).  Dave Rice obliterated Lon Kruger in the recruiting department, but Lon obliterates Rice in every other department, i.e. coaching and results.  We'll see how this year turns out, but as of now I'm ready to give Marv at least 2 more seasons after this, unless things start to go south in a hurry.

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3 minutes ago, Amaru523 said:

I've always believed that in college sports you should give a coach at least 5 years to see what he can do before firing him, as long as there's reasonable improvement year to year and things are looking up. So far I've seen improvement each year under Menzies and he looks like he's trying to build a program that can eventually compete year after year instead of going for a grand slam every single year by bringing in 7 or 8 new players.  I like the players Marv is bringing in as I no longer care about star ratings and care more about getting good players who will stick around (experience matters unless your Coach K, Cal, Self, Williams, etc. and even then, if those guys could get their top recruits to stay 3 or 4 years, they could win 3 or 4 titles in a row).  Dave Rice obliterated Lon Kruger in the recruiting department, but Lon obliterates Rice in every other department, i.e. coaching and results.  We'll see how this year turns out, but as of now I'm ready to give Marv at least 2 more seasons after this, unless things start to go south in a hurry.

Menzies isn’t done bringing in five star recruits.  He will be very selective with it though.  Next year, we won’t have any plug-in players, so we’ll have a pretty complete picture next year.

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On 11/23/2018 at 9:25 AM, Rosegreen said:

You were the one that brought up Dave Rice. Nobody else did prior to your post. He’s been gone for awhile and has nothing to do with the on court product or attendance issue. 

It should be easy to turn around a program like UNLV, given the facilities and history, it doesn’t take 5-6 years. This isn’t New Mexico State, yet that’s how the roster construction is being treated. Heck, even Spoonhour took this team to the NIT after the Bayno fiasco. 

I brought it up because it's true. Dude still has his loyalists who love to shit on the programs state right now, and then sit on their hands and cover their mouths at any sign of progression.

 

Easier than most places? Yes.

Easy? Nope.

Ask Dave Rice how 5-stars and random players on roster work out without head coaching ability.

Menzies is in only year 3 and we're starting to see his style of team because he basically set up the roster for mass turnover year 1 and 2. It does take time, no matter how easy you think it is.

You love to make all these comparisons, but none of them can even stand close to the magnitude of what Menzies had to take over. Why the hell do you think our attendance is what it is? It's not based on ANYTHING Menzies has done. It's all leftovers from Ricearoni and TKM.

Spoonhour inherited his whole team. Even his commits were already committed in Marcus Banks and Lou Amundson. You say roster construction, but then say Spoonhour, lmao. Spoonhour's roster had all BEEN at UNLV.

 

Menzies? Inherited 3 of 15 players. All 3 were the 8th-12th option on Rice's team.

 

Rice went 8-10 and finished 7th in a statistically lower ranked MWC in 2015 with multiple 4/5 stars and transfers in his 4th year.    A huge regression from his 3rd year.

Menzies went 8-10 and finished 7th in a statistically higher ranked MWC in 2018 with 1 5 star and a bunch of JC transfers and 3/4 star freshman...year 2.  A huge progression from his 1st year.

 

It's a broken record by now though. If you're still in denial about how hard of a culture change job Menzies is having to do, you're simply not all there.

 

All is well, For Rice is gone.                  

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8 hours ago, BestintheWest said:

I brought it up because it's true. Dude still has his loyalists who love to shit on the programs state right now, and then sit on their hands and cover their mouths at any sign of progression.

 

Easier than most places? Yes.

Easy? Nope.

Ask Dave Rice how 5-stars and random players on roster work out without head coaching ability.

Menzies is in only year 3 and we're starting to see his style of team because he basically set up the roster for mass turnover year 1 and 2. It does take time, no matter how easy you think it is.

You love to make all these comparisons, but none of them can even stand close to the magnitude of what Menzies had to take over. Why the hell do you think our attendance is what it is? It's not based on ANYTHING Menzies has done. It's all leftovers from Ricearoni and TKM.

Spoonhour inherited his whole team. Even his commits were already committed in Marcus Banks and Lou Amundson. You say roster construction, but then say Spoonhour, lmao. Spoonhour's roster had all BEEN at UNLV.

 

Menzies? Inherited 3 of 15 players. All 3 were the 8th-12th option on Rice's team.

 

Rice went 8-10 and finished 7th in a statistically lower ranked MWC in 2015 with multiple 4/5 stars and transfers in his 4th year.    A huge regression from his 3rd year.

Menzies went 8-10 and finished 7th in a statistically higher ranked MWC in 2018 with 1 5 star and a bunch of JC transfers and 3/4 star freshman...year 2.  A huge progression from his 1st year.

 

It's a broken record by now though. If you're still in denial about how hard of a culture change job Menzies is having to do, you're simply not all there.

 

I don’t see the progression so far, we haven’t really played anyone of note. That will soon change and again we’ll see where we are at after the Hawaii game and heading into conference play.

But I will say that I thought there was progress last season after the Nevada-Reno win last season but Menzies couldn’t keep the momentum going after his first ever top 25 win. Of course Nevada-Reno had their best guys hurt in that upset. 

For so long on this board, I’ve said that TKM was an incompetent buffoon, the typical response to that was “you don’t like TKM because she’s about to fire Rice!” Well no, because It wasn’t just Rice, you look at Football and Baseball under TKM. It was a complete clown show all the way around and everything she touched turned to shit.

It was sad to watch a lot of UNLV folks on this board cheering her on for most of her tenure and buying her bullshit. Too dumb to know she’s being used for a pay raise (Cronin) and say what you will about @RebelRobert but he saw the Cronin visit for what it was from the get go. TKM embarrassingly cries about Cronin verbally committing to UNLV and scrambles and hires a guy with zero loyalty to any program (beard). He’s gone a week later. It was an embarrassment of epic proportions. Some don’t even post here anymore and others simply don’t acknowledge her.

According to some, all we had to do was fire Rice, then hire Howland (who currently sports a laughable 59-46 record at Mississippi St.) and we’re in business to win a lot of games.

I’ve already stated that Rice didn’t meet expectations and those expectations were outlined in his press conference when he was hired. His on the court coaching wasn’t progressing the way it should have. He had to go, clearly and I would have handled the firing much differently. The fact that Menzies inherited 3 Rice players isn’t Rice’s fault. The strength of schedule and RPI this year are not Rice’s fault. Players and commits bailed because of the fact the program had a head start, SEVERAL MONTHS to hire the next coach to take us to the next level and what followed was a disaster. 

In those months it was a clown show, Augmon ,a legend at UNLV, blamed racism for being passed over for interim position and not even interviewed for the HC position. I don’t believe it was racism and Augmon should have handled it differently and so should TKM. Clearly TKM didn’t want to chance Augmon succeeding in the interim role and Augmon was hurt by that. Very sad moment in the program history. Should have clued everyone in on how the coaching search was going to go under TKM’s direction. Under a real AD, that process would have been very different and much smoother. 

So Menzies starting from scratch had nothing to do with Rice. It also doesn’t take 5-6 years to build a contender at UNLV, even from scratch. I brought up Old man Spoonhour because he took this team to the NIT twice a year after NCAA sanctions hit UNLV. 

We have a state of the art basketball facility that team USA and NBA players use, great arena that recently received 60-70 million in upgrades. With that, I just completely disagree with getting 2-3 star players because they’ll be here for four years. We have some good players but  we are wasting scholarships on guys like Djorde, Green, Coupet and a couple of complete projects sitting on the sidelines picking their noses. They aren’t going to complement Hamiltons/Juistons etc. We aren’t New Mexico State and this isn’t the WAC. 

 

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