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crixus

Huge Wildfires In California

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As of Monday, Nov. 12 @ 10:00 am -

The Camp fire in Butte County has destroyed over 6,700 homes and other buildings, killed 29 people and has burned more than 113,000 acres. And 228 people are still unaccounted for. 95% of the homes in the town of Paradise, CA (Population 27,000) are now gone due to this wildfire.

And the Woolsey fire in Ventura and Los Angeles counties of Southern California has burned more than 93,000 acres and killed 2 people. And over 370 homes have been destroyed. Pepperdine University in Malibu has been evacuated along with several cities in the two counties.

Slide 1 of 55: Flames burn inside a van as the Camp Fire tears through Paradise, Calif., on Thursday, Nov. 8, 2018. Tens of thousands of people fled a fast-moving wildfire Thursday in Northern California, some clutching babies and pets as they abandoned vehicles and struck out on foot ahead of the flames that forced the evacuation of an entire town and destroyed hundreds of structures. (AP Photo/Noah Berger)

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The loss of life and home from these fires is terrible.  Here's hoping the weather aides the firefighters and puts an end to the CA fires soon.  Once the fires are out and we've mourned for those that have died we need to seriously reconsider how and where we build going forward.  With more and more people living along the wildland-urban interface (WUI) these fires and the associated loss of life and home and increasing costs to manange is only going to go up.  When it comes to state and federal lands we need tougher building codes and buffer zone restrictions on development.  We can all enjoy our state and federal wildlands but we cannot all live in or immediately adjacent to them.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/living-on-the-edge-wildfires-pose-a-growing-risk-to-homes-built-near-wilderness-areas/

The WUI in the U.S. increased by 33 percent between 1990 and 2010, to about 190 million acres, according to a study published in March in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA. The number of houses within the WUI grew by 41 percent in the same period, an addition of nearly 13 million new homes. Having more structures in the WUI increases not only the damage wildfires inflict (because they are harder to fight) but also the risk that they will break out in the first place. “The Forest Service is concerned about more and more houses built in and near wildland vegetation because of this double whammy,” says the study's lead author Volker Radeloff, a forest ecologist at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.

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Trump is wrong, per usual. These Fire Service professionals know more about the wildfires than Trump and all his cronies combined.

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From Pasadena Fire Chief: Mr. President, with all due respect, you are wrong. The fires in So. Cal are urban interface fires and have NOTHING to do with forest management. Come to SoCal and learn the facts & help the victims. Scott Austin, Pres IAFF 809. @IAFFNewsDesk

From @CAFirefighters Pres. Brian Rice: "The president's attack is ill-informed, ill-timed and demeaning to victims and to our #firefighters on the front lines. #CA fire victims need support instead of recrimination and blame." Full statement HERE: https://bit.ly/2JSvRPC  https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061168803218948096 

#IAFF Calls @realDonaldTrump Tweet on #CaliforniaWildfires Response “Irresponsible, Reckless and Insulting” https://bit.ly/2PTID5W 

 
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Here's the latest as of Tuesday, November 13th. 

Camp Fire

  • Location: Butte County
  • 130,000 acres burned
  • 35 percent contained
  • 48 fatalities confirmed, 3 firefighters injured
  • 228 people unaccounted for
  • 8,817 structures destroyed, 7,600 of them homes

Woolsey Fire

  • Location: Los Angeles County, Ventura County
  • 97,114 acres burned (roughly the size of Denver)
  • 40 percent contained
  • 2 fatalities confirmed, 3 firefighters injured
  • Some 370 structures destroyed, 57,000 in danger

Hill Fire

  • Location: Ventura County
  • 4,531 acres burned
  • 92 percent contained

 

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Fire management can be traced all the way back to the Great Fire of 1910, that burned prime timber in Washington, Idaho and Montana.  People were upset that much timber burned.  It created the Forest Service but also created fire suppression.  When the fires are in the wilderness and nothing is in danger, the fires should just burn but people expected them to be put out.  This all could be seen in the 1988 fires at Yellowstone.  In the 90's my mom was the executive admin to the regional forester in San Fran and he stated back then, that due to all of the building in the wildland urban interface and encroaching more into wildland, fires are going to become worse and many people are going to die.  I guess he was right.....

 

 

 

 

down in a hole.jpg

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These current fires in Butte County and Ventura & LA Counties are not in wilderness areas.  Butte County has been populated since the gold rush days.  The fire itself burned not in a forest but in a grassy area interspersed with non-timber trees.  In fact, there forest grove just across the river from the ignition point was untouched by flames. The Woolsey fire is in a suburban area than never has been considered wild by any settlers since the Spanish showed up in the 1500's.  

Sure, there were only Native Americans living in those areas at the time of European settlement but that was true of every square inch of what today constitutes the United States of America.  

Fire knows no difference between wilderness and urban.  I have seen wildfire consume blocks of homes above the South rim of Mission Valley in San Diego.   You don't need wilderness to have complete neighborhoods burn when the air is dry and the wind is strong.  

 

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On 11/14/2018 at 1:32 PM, sandiegopete said:

These current fires in Butte County and Ventura & LA Counties are not in wilderness areas.  Butte County has been populated since the gold rush days.  The fire itself burned not in a forest but in a grassy area interspersed with non-timber trees.  In fact, there forest grove just across the river from the ignition point was untouched by flames. The Woolsey fire is in a suburban area than never has been considered wild by any settlers since the Spanish showed up in the 1500's.  

Sure, there were only Native Americans living in those areas at the time of European settlement but that was true of every square inch of what today constitutes the United States of America.  

Fire knows no difference between wilderness and urban.  I have seen wildfire consume blocks of homes above the South rim of Mission Valley in San Diego.   You don't need wilderness to have complete neighborhoods burn when the air is dry and the wind is strong.  

 

I’ll never forget the site of the big planes dropping borate on the south rim of Mission Valley. 

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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Sounds like Trump wants to make the climate great again:

“After witnessing the devastation inflicted on the community of Paradise, Trump on Saturday was asked by reporters whether his opinion on climate change had been altered.

‘No. No. I have a strong opinion: I want great climate, we’re going to have that,’ he replied.

Twitter users were left scratching their heads at the president’s response, with one going so far as to label it ‘the single most idiotic thing I’ve heard out of him yet.’”

#MCGA

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On 11/10/2018 at 9:14 AM, retrofade said:

Here's what the fake president has to say.

 

He can go straight to hell... I have family friends that live in Paradise, or at least they used to. 

It true Trumpian fashion, his go to response is to blame the victims. Like Puerto Rico, the synagogue vitims...

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1 hour ago, jackmormon said:

It true Trumpian fashion, his go to response is to blame the victims. Like Puerto Rico, the synagogue vitims...

The guy has become almost intolerable.

Count me as very proud to be a Californian where all but one Republican who supported the fake president (Duncan Hunter being the exception) lost. And shame on the far right asshats in Hunter's district who voted for that POS.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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19 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

The guy has become almost intolerable.

Count me as very proud to be a Californian where all but one Republican who supported the fake president (Duncan Hunter being the exception) lost. And shame on the far right asshats in Hunter's district who voted for that POS.

You'd think all those democrats in CA could figure out some kind of fire management plan where 70 people don't die.

       

 

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42 minutes ago, easybronc said:

You'd think all those democrats in CA could figure out some kind of fire management plan where 70 people don't die.

It’s a lot more than 70. And it was mostly on private land. If one of us Californians said something that callous about a tragedy in Idaho you’d come un+++++ing glued. 

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1 hour ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

It’s a lot more than 70. And it was mostly on private land. If one of us Californians said something that callous about a tragedy in Idaho you’d come un+++++ing glued. 

Condolences to the people affected by the fire but .... nevermind.  

       

 

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12 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

It’s a lot more than 70. And it was mostly on private land. If one of us Californians said something that callous about a tragedy in Idaho you’d come un+++++ing glued. 

This is absolutely true. God forbid something like this happens to them.

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On 11/13/2018 at 12:46 AM, crixus said:

Trump is wrong, per usual. These Fire Service professionals know more about the wildfires than Trump and all his cronies combined.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Pasadena Fire Chief: Mr. President, with all due respect, you are wrong. The fires in So. Cal are urban interface fires and have NOTHING to do with forest management. Come to SoCal and learn the facts & help the victims. Scott Austin, Pres IAFF 809. @IAFFNewsDesk

From @CAFirefighters Pres. Brian Rice: "The president's attack is ill-informed, ill-timed and demeaning to victims and to our #firefighters on the front lines. #CA fire victims need support instead of recrimination and blame." Full statement HERE: https://bit.ly/2JSvRPC  https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061168803218948096 

#IAFF Calls @realDonaldTrump Tweet on #CaliforniaWildfires Response “Irresponsible, Reckless and Insulting” https://bit.ly/2PTID5W 

 

um, I beg to differ!  130,000 acres burned!!!   Every damn year we have major fires thruout the entire western US.  Hell its fcking epidemic!  We had huge fires all summer in Colorado.  Montana had huge fires.  

Trash Trump all you want but don't pretend that most of these state and federal forest people have a damn clue wtf their doing.  It has A LOT to do with forest mgmt and clearing away brush and trees from power lines and transformers and people having houses right in forest areas.  Areas can be cleared to make a natural firewall.  We simply don't have the money to counter rich landowners nor the political willpower to force effective forest and fire management.   

California has drastically underspent on things like water and forest management because they spend most their resources on social programs and things like bullet trains.  Just because some of you hate Trump so much you don't want anyone to take any damn responsibility for this shit.  

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