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Mass Shooting In Thousand Oaks

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1 minute ago, Akkula said:

Thankfully we now have a Democratic house and I expect that they won't simply paper over all of these mass shootings every time.  I expect that will be some kind of actual reasonable legislation that will be kicked over to the Senate and they will have to justify why it isn't signed. 

Are you sad it wasn't a synagogue last night?

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1 minute ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Hey @mugtang, can’t you just paste the thread from the last mass shooting here and save everyone a bunch of effort?

Good idea, we should probably just pin one to the top so we don't waste anymore space.  Maybe we can just make a new forum for them right after Coastie's. 

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3 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Good idea, we should probably just pin one to the top so we don't waste anymore space.  Maybe we can just make a new forum for them right after Coastie's. 

I was referring to you as much as anyone else. The whole exercise is completely pointless. Everyone comes at it with their usual position. People talk past each other, get nasty, and then it peters out until the next one.

And if you think a Democratic controlled House will make a bit of difference you’re smoking something. How many votes were there to repeal Obamacare?

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3 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

I was referring to you as much as anyone else. The whole exercise is completely pointless. Everyone comes at it with their usual position. People talk past each other, get nasty, and then it peters out until the next one.

And if you think a Democratic controlled House will make a bit of difference you’re smoking something. How many votes were there to repeal Obamacare?

Great, well let's just all join the right wing chorus and lament the mental health, ignore guns, rinse repeat.

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6 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

I was referring to you as much as anyone else. The whole exercise is completely pointless. Everyone comes at it with their usual position. People talk past each other, get nasty, and then it peters out until the next one.

And if you think a Democratic controlled House will make a bit of difference you’re smoking something. How many votes were there to repeal Obamacare?

Peters out until someone mentions "Thoughts and Prayers", and then phucking look out!:pitchforks:

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1 hour ago, Joe from WY said:

I"m surprised you don't see more deranged vets doing this more often, given the huge amount of them floating around as a result of the Afghan/Iraq campaigns. That's not to say something nasty about the Vets, just that, there's a lot of them with undiagnosed/untreated problems floating around. 

It's a +++++ed situation all the way around. Both the actual event and the fact that people will use it on both sides in an effort to further their agenda. 

The deranged vet thing is bullshit. Yeah combat changes you, but 95% come back and reintegrate into society with no issues. The military is a microcosm of society. Dirtbag is gonna dirtbag. The majority of us come back and go about our lives and deal with it. 

When I heard the witness accounts of what went down I immediately knew this dude was military. He knew what he was doing. Goes to show that magazine capacity is a crock of shit. This guy went in with a .45 and changed mags 3 times. 

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

Not to mention that vets have the training to both perform and plan one of these shootings. For every Eliot Rodger or Dylan Roof there's a hundred like him at home who would like to do something similar but don't have the know how or even the confidence to follow through. Vets, in my experience, tend to have more confidence and follow through in everything they do, and for some reason, this is one of the things Americans do now. 

Then you might as well lock all of us crazy vets up. Come on man, you're smarter than that. Why don't we see more of this then? We don't see it because the majority of veterans have a higher moral compass than the rest of the country. There is a crisis in the veteran community, but mass shootings aren't it. We are committing suicide at an alarming rate. Some estimates put it at 22 a day. We are offing ourselves instead of taking others with us. Veterans are the least of your worries when it comes to this.

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48 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Thankfully we now have a Democratic house and I expect that they won't simply paper over all of these mass shootings every time.  I expect that will be some kind of actual reasonable legislation that will be kicked over to the Senate and they will have to justify why it isn't signed. 

Why would you think that? They have had ample opportunities in the past when they actually could have passed legislation, and have never done so.

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Just now, sean327 said:

Then you might as well lock all of us crazy vets up. Come on man, you're smarter than that. Why don't we see more of this then? We don't see it because the majority of veterans have a higher moral compass than the rest of the country. There is a crisis in the veteran community, but mass shootings aren't it. We are committing suicide at an alarming rate. Some estimates put it at 22 a day. We are offing ourselves instead of taking others with us. Veterans are the least of your worries when it comes to this.

Read my post again. I wasn't criticizing veterans. I was saying that veterans tend to have more drive and follow through and planning skills than your average American. For some reason there is a subset of Americans who want to do stuff like this and it doesn't seem to follow much of a pattern. Ergo it would not be surprising that vets are a little more represented - let's say that veterans three times better at planning than your average American at, well, anything. Given that, if for every 1000 Americans that have never served who have put serious thought into performing one of these acts, you'd expect about 1 civilian to actually do something about it and for 1000 vets who have put serious thought into it, maybe 3 veterans. That's still a lot more civilians doing it because the ratio of vets to never served people is a lot higher than 3:1.

Does that clarify it better?

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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21 minutes ago, Mano said:

Why would you think that? They have had ample opportunities in the past when they actually could have passed legislation, and have never done so.

The Democrats passed PLENTY of legislation when they were in power.  That is one of the reasons Republicans hated them so much.  Banking Reform, Women's Pay, ACA....I don't think the issue for Dems is the inability to pass legislation.  Their problem was the filibuster blocking.  Furthermore, the house has every incentive to pass legislation if it puts pressure on the senate and helps to draw contrasts.  Democrats have an incentive to show how they would run things if they were in charge and they do that by passing bills and pressuring the senate to pass them too.

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17 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Read my post again. I wasn't criticizing veterans. I was saying that veterans tend to have more drive and follow through and planning skills than your average American. For some reason there is a subset of Americans who want to do stuff like this and it doesn't seem to follow much of a pattern. Ergo it would not be surprising that vets are a little more represented - let's say that veterans three times better at planning than your average American at, well, anything. Given that, if for every 1000 Americans that have never served who have put serious thought into performing one of these acts, you'd expect about 1 civilian to actually do something about it and for 1000 vets who have put serious thought into it, maybe 3 veterans. That's still a lot more civilians doing it because the ratio of vets to never served people is a lot higher than 3:1.

Does that clarify it better?

I would suspect that 95% of vets aren't the planners but rather the doers.  They are use to following orders and without that providing them direction, after they get out, is what drives many of them to suicide.  I really don't know, just my WAG.

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9 minutes ago, Akkula said:

The Democrats passed PLENTY of legislation when they were in power.  That is one of the reasons Republicans hated them so much.  Banking Reform, Women's Pay, ACA....I don't think the issue for Dems is the inability to pass legislation.  Their problem was the filibuster blocking.  Furthermore, the house has every incentive to pass legislation if it puts pressure on the senate and helps to draw contrasts.  Democrats have an incentive to show how they would run things if they were in charge and they do that by passing bills and pressuring the senate to pass them too.

When did they pass any gun control legislation?

I never implied they couldn't pass legislation, I was saying that they have never been willing to expend the political capital and go against special interests that it would take to pass gun control legislation.

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26 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Read my post again. I wasn't criticizing veterans. I was saying that veterans tend to have more drive and follow through and planning skills than your average American. For some reason there is a subset of Americans who want to do stuff like this and it doesn't seem to follow much of a pattern. Ergo it would not be surprising that vets are a little more represented - let's say that veterans three times better at planning than your average American at, well, anything. Given that, if for every 1000 Americans that have never served who have put serious thought into performing one of these acts, you'd expect about 1 civilian to actually do something about it and for 1000 vets who have put serious thought into it, maybe 3 veterans. That's still a lot more civilians doing it because the ratio of vets to never served people is a lot higher than 3:1.

Does that clarify it better?

It does, but the majority of these shooting aren't being done by veterans. Worrying about them commiting these acts is like worrying about getting eaten by a shark while wading the Rio Grande.

Yes the VA sucks big time with mental health care, but there are thousands of organizations and groups out there that do a great job reaching out to guys in trouble. I belong to a few groups where all a guy has to do is dial a number and he can talk to someone instantly. The USMC veterans groups on Facebook are unbelievable when it comes to talking to guys who think they have nowhere else to go. I don't understand why this Marine did this, all he had to do was reach out and thousands of his brothers would have been there to talk him down. I'm sick to my stomach that it was a brother Marine who did this. It didn't have to happen.

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49 minutes ago, sean327 said:

The deranged vet thing is bullshit. Yeah combat changes you, but 95% come back and reintegrate into society with no issues. The military is a microcosm of society. Dirtbag is gonna dirtbag. The majority of us come back and go about our lives and deal with it. 

When I heard the witness accounts of what went down I immediately knew this dude was military. He knew what he was doing. Goes to show that magazine capacity is a crock of shit. This guy went in with a .45 and changed mags 3 times. 

I know there is a mental health issue but this post resonates with me. It isn't just a mental health issue. This default explanation that we use to explain away every mass shooting (by white guys, at least) often misses the mark, masks real dangers, and unnecessarily stigmatizes people that are suffering but understand they can't harm people. Sometimes it boils down to the fact that certain people are evil. 

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