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4UNLV

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qwelish, I only say all of this as a concerned fellow Rebel fan, but there are no rewards handed out here for trying to win an argument.

As it turns out, people can feel however they want about UNLV, and there's nothing you nor I can do about it. Nothing. Likewise, that includes yourself. Have your optimistic outlook on things. Attacking all of those that don't agree with you is a bad look, though. Unless you're trying to be the Chicago Rebel Girl.

Fans from the entire conference gather here, and you are attacking fans from other schools for participating in the discussion only because they don't agree with your take. My advice. It's ok to step away from the keyboard sometimes. And I mean that sincerely.

Let's see. You hated the Kruger years, didn't care much for Spoon, thought Rice wasn't a good coach, and weren't even alive during the Tark years. Yet, here you are lecturing everyone on what it takes to be a Rebel fan. Like that makes any sense at all. Once you're able to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has supported UNLV for 30, 40, 50 years, then you can try to talk about being "jaded". Until then, get out of here with the hot takes.

You are also now on the record that Menzies will do better at UNLV than Kruger. I know you don't want to hear it, but that's another embarrassing take based on the facts. First off, Kruger is highly regarded in coaching circles. Highly, highly regarded. Menzies, not so much. Unless we are talking about coaches who value him as an assistant and for his recruiting connections. Kruger: easily a top 20 coach in college basketball, if not higher. Again, Menzies not so much. I don't even know if he makes the top 100 in Division 1 currently.

Kruger was at UNLV 7 seasons. His teams went to the postseason 6 of his 7 seasons. He only missed the postseason his 2nd year at UNLV. Menzies is on year 3 here and hasn't even sniffed the postseason. No signs this team will, either. Better than Kruger? Give me a flippin break. Unless Menzies goes to an Elite 8 during his tenure or at least makes the NIT this year, it is not even worth talking about.

And oh yeah, that ready-made "NCAA" roster that Kruger totally whiffed on in his year 1 season, in your words. That one that had never been to the NCAAs before Kruger. Yeah, that one that went to the NIT the year before he took over and lost in a blowout to Boise State. Yeah, that one. Kruger only came in and took them to the NIT again. Beat ASU, and then lost on the road to South Carolina in the 2nd round of the NIT. Keep telling your tale, though, buddy. Kruger was terrible. Right?

If you want to go there on who recruited Joel Anthony to UNLV. On who developed him into a NBA level shot blocker over 3 years at UNLV (including a redshirt season) and a conference defensive player of the year, we can surely go there. On how highly skilled Anthony was when Kruger came calling. On how many offers he had. Again, we can go there. We can also go there on Lou Amundson, a guy that made it to the NBA through shear hard work. And I'm assuming Kruger had nothing to do with his development, either, right?

Menzies is a good guy. A very good person. Make no mistake, though, once Beard packed his bags and headed to Lubbock, Menzies was a stop-gap hire. A placeholder. However you want to put it. He was the only person that would take the job then. The only person on planet earth. That's all that ever needs to said about how in demand Menzies was and is as a head coach.

He has 0 donor support at UNLV. I repeat. No donor support. He never had it. Unless he completely turns things around both on the court and at the box office, he won't ever have it. Cold, hard facts.

Somewhere between 0 and 3 years from now, it's a very good guess that he won't be the head coach at UNLV. Sorry to burst your bubble. Unfortunately, donor support and ticket sales matter at UNLV. 

I wish you the best of luck with your blog. Indeed, it's in the interest of all Rebel fans that Kruger-level support from the community returns to UNLV basketball.

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42 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

Wish Derrick Jones Jr stuck around for another season or two. Guy is fun to watch on the Heat, they are playing against the Lakers tonight. He’s getting some good minutes.

14 rebounds.

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7 hours ago, Rosegreen said:

Look at how he left the program as the walkin rebels. 

He never really recruited AAU or went after top recruits and it wasn’t because there wasn’t a Mendenhall Center. His philosophy on recruiting at unlv wasn’t ever going to be dependent on facilities. 

Rosegreen, I was right there with you in regards to concerns about Kruger ball following the loss to Illinois. 

However, I think too much is made of the walkin' Rebels comment by Charles Barkley. We lost to a talented Illini team that slowed the ball down. Round 1, offense tends to suffer for every NCAA team. No doubt, Charles had never watched UNLV tape, made the comment to rib Greg Anthony about the loss, and besides that, he's Charles Barkley. 

He's busy mocking 15-20 different people, places or things every day of his life. Including Shaq, including Kobe. Including LeBron.

UNLV should be better than letting Charles Barkley hurt our feelings.

Hindsight being 20/20, UNLV has headed south ever since Kruger's departure. If only we all could have seen that when we were immersed in the Kruger years, we would probably be much better off as a program these days.

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5 hours ago, SharkTanked said:

Spoon took St Louis to the second round twice (94-95 and 97-98). Also got SW Missouri St there in 86-87. Marv not so much (0-5).

My opinion on him was that he would not be able to make UNLV competitive in the MWC. We will see this season I guess, but I don't see this turning out much different than a 5th place finish at best.

If Spoon's health didn't fail him, he would've had us back there to winning in the tournament... probably would've done comparable to Kruger at UNLV.

Spoon spent 10 years at higher level programs, St Louis and UNLV. Spoon had 3 more ncaa appearances and ncaa wins than Menzies in that time. That shows poorly on Spoon. You spin it as a positive, but its not.

Marvin got all of his ncaa appearances (5) at a low level mid major. Spoon also had (5) at mizzu state. He got 1 win in the ncaa there. Woop dee doo! 

The rest of what you said is if, probably and in my opinion. Cant do a thing with that..... 

Based on their resumes, Spoon just coached longer. He wasnt a superior coach. In 10 years coaching at high majors UNLV and St Louis, Spoon had 2 ncaa wins. No way Marvin keeps his job with results like that.

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13 hours ago, qwelish said:

I agree with everything here, 100% how I see things. Based on where the program was when he got here, its just not likely that anyone would be able to bring in all immediate impact players.

People love Kruger, but he finished 4th mwc his first two seasons and he started off with 3 pros on his roster.  I dont understand why Menzies does not get the same benefit of the doubt considering his starting point. Its really weird!

That said, I recall a lot of grumbling about Lon before year 3, when he got his son to come here.

 

Most players make their greatest leap in production from freshman to sophomore season. Marvin better make that happen or he will be in deep trouble here.

 

I just dont see that as possible based on what he has had to work with. Its not his fault he had to sign some of the players he's had. As those players move out, he's bringing in his core. I do blame him for not landing a pg sooner, but he did land Ethan so its cool, for now. The assessment of his coaching ability, to me starts this year, and will be mostly measured by the final MWC finish, or less likely, 3 days in March. Marvin needs a solid finish in MWC play.

A 3rd place finish is overachieving for this roster and is probably pie in the sky! If he pulls that off he will silence his critics and probably gets extended. I want Marvin to dominate now, or at the latest next year. 

Underachieve next season and DRF needs to go coach shopping.

Well, Utah and BYU were still here, the MW was a lot tougher then.

 

11 hours ago, SharkTanked said:

I look at the whole picture to determine if they can coach or not. Spoon took St Louis to the second round twice (94-95 and 97-98). Also got SW Missouri St there in 86-87. Marv not so much (0-5). Spoon was good for UNLV in that he knew what it took to win in a similar conference. Marv has no clue as he only knows feasting on cupcakes with superior talent and crapping the bed when faced up against superior talent. My opinion on him was that he would not be able to make UNLV competitive in the MWC. We will see this season I guess, but I don't see this turning out much different than a 5th place finish at best.

If Spoon's health didn't fail him, he would've had us back there to winning in the tournament... probably would've done comparable to Kruger at UNLV.

But we don't have money, so...

Sure we do. They'll just move it from somewhere else, like when DRF started. B)

 

7 hours ago, Rosegreen said:

Wish Derrick Jones Jr stuck around for another season or two. Guy is fun to watch on the Heat, they are playing against the Lakers tonight. He’s getting some good minutes.

 

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8 hours ago, qwelish said:

Spoon spent 10 years at higher level programs, St Louis and UNLV. Spoon had 3 more ncaa appearances and ncaa wins than Menzies in that time. That shows poorly on Spoon. You spin it as a positive, but its not.

Marvin got all of his ncaa appearances (5) at a low level mid major. Spoon also had (5) at mizzu state. He got 1 win in the ncaa there. Woop dee doo! 

The rest of what you said is if, probably and in my opinion. Cant do a thing with that..... 

Based on their resumes, Spoon just coached longer. He wasnt a superior coach. In 10 years coaching at high majors UNLV and St Louis, Spoon had 2 ncaa wins. No way Marvin keeps his job with results like that.

I doubt we will ever agree on this it seems, but I think it is harder to get NCAA tourney appearances at St Louis and UNLV than it is at NMSU where it is so much easier to win the autobid due to the lack of competition in the conference. And yes, 1 win in the NCAA's is a whole lot better than 0.

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13 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

I doubt we will ever agree on this it seems, but I think it is harder to get NCAA tourney appearances at St Louis and UNLV than it is at NMSU where it is so much easier to win the autobid due to the lack of competition in the conference. And yes, 1 win in the NCAA's is a whole lot better than 0.

Not a whole lot better, just better. Spoon also coached 9 more seasons, so....

I might be inclined to agree that it is easier. But Spoon got most of his ncaa appearances (5) at missouri state, which is an apples to apples comp to nmsu.

The fact that you completely omit that from the above shows you are being disingenuous at best. The inconsistency and unwillingness to be fair in your analysis are a bit startling.

Not even trying to convince you. Just pointing these things out.

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Spoon was not brought in to win championships at UNLV his main purpose was to get UNLV through their probation and keep us from getting in further trouble with the NCAA.  From day one it was known he was a short term coach.  Kruger is the best thing that has happened to UNLV basketball since the Tarkanian era.  He brought tradition back, got us back to the tourney regularly, and reconnected past athletes with the program. Rice was brought in to soon

  He should have gotten experience elsewhere first.  He is a great recruiter and works harder than most coaches on breaking down games and players.  He was over his head at UNLV and needed experience as a head coach before he took on his role.

Menzies, in my opinion has put together a nice team full of roll players he is three players short of being a very good and competitive team. One it looks like he has coming in next year in Ethan Anderson. He still needs a player that is a great shooter who also can defend and he needs someone who can dominate the paint. If he can bring those in and then learn how to make changes during the game he could be good.  But he is not on the same level as Kruger. 

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3 hours ago, 4UNLV said:

Well, Utah and BYU were still here, the MW was a lot tougher then.

Remember, I was only talking about the 1st 4 years. Yes those two teams were there, but Lon also finished below afa 4 times. 

Sdsu was a bottom feedert and byu was replaced by fresno, similar. 

None of those teams were as good as reno is now, and there are more teams by almost double. Sdsu is now perennially good, fresno is up.

And Lon took the program over ready to go. He did not  inherit a dumpster fire from Spoon.

The more I look at this, Spoon is looking like the comp for Marv. But I think Marv may be able to do what Spoon did at St Louis, not what Spoon did here. That would be decent, not great.

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37 minutes ago, 702 said:

Spoon was not brought in to win championships at UNLV

First off, WELCOME 702!!!!

Yes this is true. He was brought here to retire and caregive. He handed Lon a ready to go program with two nba players and Romel Beck. Lon did not get a dumpster fire like Menzies got. I only say that to illustrate how unfair people are to Marvin, saying he cant coach, blah, blah, blah. Lon is beloved here, but he drastically underachieved his first couple of seasons here, and never won the conference, which had fewer teams and was about as good as it is now, just not deeper.

 

37 minutes ago, 702 said:

Menzies, in my opinion has put together a nice team full of roll players he is three players short of being a very good and competitive team. One it looks like he has coming in next year in Ethan Anderson. He still needs a player that is a great shooter who also can defend and he needs someone who can dominate the paint. If he can bring those in and then learn how to make changes during the game he could be good.  But he is not on the same level as Kruger. 

I think Ntambwe and Diong are great role players, and every team needs those. Hamilton and Anderson could be those star players and Woodbury could that shooter still. Kendall Wallace shot 20% from 3 his freshman year. I admit 20% is better than 0%. But we will see.

Diong dominates the paint on defense, but I know you meant dominate as a scorer. I agree with that as well.

We do not know what level Marvin is here yet, but he has definitely not shown anything the level of Lon. He's definitely not better over their careers, but this is Marvins first stint at a major D1. I think he's much better as a recruiter. Kruger had that one great S16 year and every other year he was bounced one and done, maybe one other win? Marvin can definitely do that. Lon gets overhyped here because most people became fans when he was coach.

A lot of us were fans well before that, though. So we know that what Lon did here is the default level of UNLV for a decent coach. Bayno, Rice were first time head coaches. They recruited like crazy, but ran shoddy programs. Spoon came here to retire. Marvin is doing something in recruiting and building that has never been done at UNLV. He's using the san diego state model. sdsu dominated the mwc for 10 years with that model. If he gets UNLV to that level, UNLV is the type of program that could catapult up into Nat Champion levels because of the brand, but he's got to get it to that lower rung, first. Theres just no patience for building among this fan base. But it will pay off and I think Menzies is a good coach.

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41 minutes ago, qwelish said:

Not a whole lot better, just better. Spoon also coached 9 more seasons, so....

I might be inclined to agree that it is easier. But Spoon got most of his ncaa appearances (5) at missouri state, which is an apples to apples comp to nmsu.

The fact that you completely omit that from the above shows you are being disingenuous at best. The inconsistency and unwillingness to be fair in your analysis are a bit startling.

Not even trying to convince you. Just pointing these things out.

Lol ok, fair point about the appearances coming for SW Mizzou St and that certainly is comparable to NMSU, and yes he coached longer than Marv has, but he has still been much more successful in the tourney. I mean the bottom line is the bottom line there. And yes, when discussing the tourney 1 win is definitely a whole lot better than 0. As Marv has proven, wins are tough to come by there.

24 minutes ago, qwelish said:

And Lon took the program over ready to go. He did not  inherit a dumpster fire from Spoon.

The more I look at this, Spoon is looking like the comp for Marv. But I think Marv may be able to do what Spoon did at St Louis, not what Spoon did here. That would be decent, not great.

I thought Spoon couldn't recruit? :P

If Marv ends up being as successful as Spoon was at St Louis, I am happy with Marv. It is possible as he finally got the "beating a top 25 team" monkey off his back, but I will believe it when I see it.

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Yes that is definitely true Kruger was left a better team by far.  I also remember after his second year a lot of people wanted kruger fired.  

I have been going to UNLV games since 1977 and UNLV has never been close to as bad a shape as it is right now in basketball. I do agree. I think a lot of the blame put on Menzies is unfair to him and his staff and is not his fault. But I also think he brings a lot of it on himself. But when it comes down to it he has better talent on this team then what we are seeing on the floor. I believe when MM says his team is not executing how they have been taught to in practices. But with that it is the coaches job to correct this and get them playing how they should be. He has 4 more games before conference play begins. I will give it to MM even though we have lost the last couple we seem to be getting better as a team. I am hoping come conference play MM has us playing the best ball of the year and we can exceed expectations and finish top 4 of the MWC. 

But if we finish sub 500 in nonconference and sub 500 in conference Menzies needs to be given an ultimatum that next year it is minum nit or he is out.  I say this because I think he is back next year no matter how this season ends up. 

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1 hour ago, 702 said:

Spoon was not brought in to win championships at UNLV his main purpose was to get UNLV through their probation and keep us from getting in further trouble with the NCAA.

Bingo.

Spoon wasn't brought in for anything but stability during the probation. Anyone with eyes could see that he wasn't going to be at UNLV for long.

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36 minutes ago, qwelish said:

Theres just no patience for building among this fan base. But it will pay off and I think Menzies is a good coach.

You are definitely correct, there is no patience among the fan base.  I think that is mostly because the patience has run out for most.  It has been several years of the famous saying of look what we have for next year. Fair to Menzies or not he took the job knowing this so yes he will get allot of unfair criticism and if he wants it to stop he needs to show it on the floor by winning and not struggling against inferior teams.  

I also hope you are right in saying he is a good coach.  I have never understood the fan that hopes their team losses just so a coach they don't like get replaced. I hope Menzies makes me eat crow and gets UNLV winning conference championships and making regular appreances to the NCAA tourney, nothing would make me happier.

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41 minutes ago, qwelish said:

First off, WELCOME 702!!!!

Yes this is true. He was brought here to retire and caregive. He handed Lon a ready to go program with two nba players and Romel Beck. Lon did not get a dumpster fire like Menzies got. I only say that to illustrate how unfair people are to Marvin, saying he cant coach, blah, blah, blah. Lon is beloved here, but he drastically underachieved his first couple of seasons here, and never won the conference, which had fewer teams and was about as good as it is now, just not deeper.

 

I think Ntambwe and Diong are great role players, and every team needs those. Hamilton and Anderson could be those star players and Woodbury could that shooter still. Kendall Wallace shot 20% from 3 his freshman year. I admit 20% is better than 0%. But we will see.

Diong dominates the paint on defense, but I know you meant dominate as a scorer. I agree with that as well.

We do not know what level Marvin is here yet, but he has definitely not shown anything the level of Lon. He's definitely not better over their careers, but this is Marvins first stint at a major D1. I think he's much better as a recruiter. Kruger had that one great S16 year and every other year he was bounced one and done, maybe one other win? Marvin can definitely do that. Lon gets overhyped here because most people became fans when he was coach.

A lot of us were fans well before that, though. So we know that what Lon did here is the default level of UNLV for a decent coach. Bayno, Rice were first time head coaches. They recruited like crazy, but ran shoddy programs. Spoon came here to retire. Marvin is doing something in recruiting and building that has never been done at UNLV. He's using the san diego state model. sdsu dominated the mwc for 10 years with that model. If he gets UNLV to that level, UNLV is the type of program that could catapult up into Nat Champion levels because of the brand, but he's got to get it to that lower rung, first. Theres just no patience for building among this fan base. But it will pay off and I think Menzies is a good coach.

I am still waiting to hear who these two NBA players were. You can't talk out of your a$$ and call it facts. 

On the one hand, Spoon couldn't recruit. On the other hand, he gave Kruger two NBA players and a ready-made NCAA team, and then Kruger blew it. That makes a lot of sense. See what I mean about talking out of your a$$.

Joel Anthony was a Kruger signee and also a huge project. He contributed next to nothing in this year you speak of. He looked so bad in his limited minutes, many fans wondered why Kruger had even given him a scholarship. He redshirted the following season so that he could develop. Stop with your nonsense. 

On the one hand, Kruger was a lazy recruiter. On the other hand, Muss is a great recruiter. Nevermind that both have had success relying on the transfer route. Ever heard of Chace Stanback, Derrick Jasper, Tre'Von Willis? 4 star recruits in high school. Got to give credit where it is due. I know it doesn't fit your Kruger the lazy recruiter, Marvin the great recruiter, though. Wonder why.

Kruger was not unfallable. However, he clearly knows what he's doing. Knows how to build a program. Not simply recruit the star system. Places a premium on recruiting kids that are coachable. Menzies did well at lowly NMSU. Remains to be seen if he is building a winner at UNLV. Tick tock.

"Kruger had that one great S16 year and every other year he was bounced one and done, maybe one other win?"

You have a way with words. Maybe one other win? Don't have google or were you just not paying attention? Such a diehard Rebel fan, I can see.

Kruger was busy being mediocre at UNLV. Marvin is busy rebuilding UNLV into a powerhouse, right? Apparently, none of these years count under your narrative because he got a raw deal coming here. Nevermind Menzies is a grown man who knew what he was getting into.

I know you have a blog to promote, but at least Spilotro uses his name and doesn't try to make it look like he's 5 different people who are totally behind the Menzies rebuild. It's called transparency. You can scream as loud as you want. Make up stuff as you go. It doesn't make anything you say true.

You were a fan well before Kruger? Really? Ok. 

Real fans have patience? That's why you despised Kruger and every other coach at UNLV not named Menzies? All roads lead to Menzies, right?

Wonder why. You don't have anything to gain from Menzies landing another big name recruit or anything.

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