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1 hour ago, Rosegreen said:

When you strip away Kevin Kruger, the results under Lon in terms of recruiting left a lot to be desired. Without his son, I don’t think Lon would have lasted very long. 

After the S16 run, It seemed the program plateaued under Lon, and fans were getting frustrated because it was a 3rd place MWC team. We were 1-5 vs t25 teams and got blown out by Illinois in the final season. Most people didn’t want him back. 

I also find this to be 100% true. Lon was the best coach here since Tark. But he was an extremely sometimey and lazy recruiter. We can only speculate as to whether he would have improved or what he would have done. Probabilities say he would have kept an NCAA streak going, but who saw 11-21 coming for Lon two seasons ago? I certainly didnt. Thats because of his recruiting and that happened at a p5. 

Please dont try to convince me here, I really dont care about Lon. He bounced. That was his choice.

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1 hour ago, toonkee said:

Unless there's something massively weird and destructive that happens this season, I give Marvin next year.  I think we're watching a couple of very impactful players develop in Ntambwe, Mbacke and JTT and I give Marvin the chance to bear the fruits of his labors.  Anderson does look very, very good as well.  He might be that "alpha" guard we desperately need.

Next year, we need to be top 3 in MW, have a good chance to be in the tournament and I'd like to see us borderline ranked.  That will satisfy me keeping MM around a but longer.

 

I agree with everything here, 100% how I see things. Based on where the program was when he got here, its just not likely that anyone would be able to bring in all immediate impact players.

People love Kruger, but he finished 4th mwc his first two seasons and he started off with 3 pros on his roster.  I dont understand why Menzies does not get the same benefit of the doubt considering his starting point. Its really weird!

That said, I recall a lot of grumbling about Lon before year 3, when he got his son to come here.

 

57 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

Quite a leap this team has to make from this year to next. 

Most players make their greatest leap in production from freshman to sophomore season. Marvin better make that happen or he will be in deep trouble here.

 

53 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

I consider an honest assessment of Menzies' coaching acumen.

I just dont see that as possible based on what he has had to work with. Its not his fault he had to sign some of the players he's had. As those players move out, he's bringing in his core. I do blame him for not landing a pg sooner, but he did land Ethan so its cool, for now. The assessment of his coaching ability, to me starts this year, and will be mostly measured by the final MWC finish, or less likely, 3 days in March. Marvin needs a solid finish in MWC play.

A 3rd place finish is overachieving for this roster and is probably pie in the sky! If he pulls that off he will silence his critics and probably gets extended. I want Marvin to dominate now, or at the latest next year. 

Underachieve next season and DRF needs to go coach shopping.

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29 minutes ago, qwelish said:

I just dont see that as possible based on what he has had to work with. Its not his fault he had to sign some of the players he's had. As those players move out, he's bringing in his core. I do blame him for not landing a pg sooner, but he did land Ethan so its cool, for now. The assessment of his coaching ability, to me starts this year, and will be mostly measured by the final MWC finish, or less likely, 3 days in March. Marvin needs a solid finish in MWC play.

A 3rd place finish is overachieving for this roster and is probably pie in the sky! If he pulls that off he will silence his critics and probably gets extended. I want Marvin to dominate now, or at the latest next year. 

Underachieve next season and DRF needs to go coach shopping.

We will agree to disagree. My opinion is based on his whole career, not just UNLV.

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22 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

We will agree to disagree. My opinion is based on his whole career, not just UNLV.

I only care about what they do at UNLV.

21 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

Spoon was a pretty good coach actually. Better than Marv.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree here...

No postseason at UNLV with an NBA point guard. Extremely poor recruiting. 19 years as a head coach. 8 ncaa tournaments. 3-8 in the ncaa. 2 of the 3 ncaa wins came at st louis. 

By the numbers Spoon and Marv are very similar. Spoon 10 seasons at UNLV and St Louis. Major d1 programs. Marvin only 2.5 years at a major program here in Vegas.

Seems your assessment of Marvin is just way premature or you are not giving Marvin the same credit for his 5 ncaas (0-5) at nmsu as youre giving Spoon for his 5 ncaas (1-4) at mizzu st.

Recruiting wise its not close. Marvin is blowing Spoon out of the water recruiting to UNLV. Bayno left Spoon a decent roster. Much better than what Rice left Marv.

Not sure how youre calculating "better" or "pretty good".

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2 hours ago, SharkTanked said:

An AD who is concerned about attracting quality candidates.

Yet he was the one who insisted on and actually got the Mendenhall built.

The only thing that attracts quality coaches is $$$. For the most part, they don’t care what happened to the previous coach. 

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1 hour ago, qwelish said:

I only care about what they do at UNLV.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree here...

No postseason at UNLV with an NBA point guard. Extremely poor recruiting. 19 years as a head coach. 8 ncaa tournaments. 3-8 in the ncaa. 2 of the 3 ncaa wins came at st louis. 

By the numbers Spoon and Marv are very similar. Spoon 10 seasons at UNLV and St Louis. Major d1 programs. Marvin only 2.5 years at a major program here in Vegas.

Seems your assessment of Marvin is just way premature or you are not giving Marvin the same credit for his 5 ncaas (0-5) at nmsu as youre giving Spoon for his 5 ncaas (1-4) at mizzu st.

Recruiting wise its not close. Marvin is blowing Spoon out of the water recruiting to UNLV. Bayno left Spoon a decent roster. Much better than what Rice left Marv.

Not sure how youre calculating "better" or "pretty good".

I look at the whole picture to determine if they can coach or not. Spoon took St Louis to the second round twice (94-95 and 97-98). Also got SW Missouri St there in 86-87. Marv not so much (0-5). Spoon was good for UNLV in that he knew what it took to win in a similar conference. Marv has no clue as he only knows feasting on cupcakes with superior talent and crapping the bed when faced up against superior talent. My opinion on him was that he would not be able to make UNLV competitive in the MWC. We will see this season I guess, but I don't see this turning out much different than a 5th place finish at best.

If Spoon's health didn't fail him, he would've had us back there to winning in the tournament... probably would've done comparable to Kruger at UNLV.

36 minutes ago, Rosegreen said:

The only thing that attracts quality coaches is $$$. For the most part, they don’t care what happened to the previous coach. 

But we don't have money, so...

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2 hours ago, qwelish said:

I also find this to be 100% true. Lon was the best coach here since Tark. But he was an extremely sometimey and lazy recruiter. We can only speculate as to whether he would have improved or what he would have done. Probabilities say he would have kept an NCAA streak going, but who saw 11-21 coming for Lon two seasons ago? I certainly didnt. Thats because of his recruiting and that happened at a p5. 

Please dont try to convince me here, I really dont care about Lon. He bounced. That was his choice.

I highly doubt that the recruiting would have improved.  I have my reasons.

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2 hours ago, SharkTanked said:

But we don't have money, so...

There is a difference between not having money and not being willing to spend money. Kruger was getting paid $5.2 million for 5 years and had other opportunities to supplement that. That was going into a serious recession. Had he stayed he certainly would have been making more than that now. So here we are 11 years later and we've tried to spend 50% and now 70% of what we were paying Kruger. Beard was going to get $1 million. It would probably be amazing to see the difference in the income of the program from 3 years ago vs today as well. Money is being lost or wasted because of the amateur decisions made by our highly educated leaders at UNLV. The age old saying about penny wise and pound fooling.

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2 hours ago, rebelcuff said:

Spoon was actually a really good coach, I don't think he recruited that great. Actually hung out with him a few times at red Rock casino watching baseball. He was a great guy and a man of the people. 

Spoon was a tremendous person and obviously he was just brought in to run a clean program, nothing more. 

But I just felt that Spoon wasn’t the right fit for UNLV. 

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