Mangum benched

[utenation]

1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

OK, but BYU only plays about 5 P5 games per year.   BYU plays about 7-8 G5s per year.  You act like BYU has 12 P5 games per year.   The schedule isn't that difficult (ask the Ute fans on here...who say that BYU has a "creampuff schedule" all the time, and point to the MWC games BYU plays).

And the reason that Sitake's job is in jeopardy is not that BYU lost to Cal or Washington....its' that he's lost to low level G5 teams like UMass, SJSU, Fresneck, etc.

Also, you are emphasizing only the negatives...   The "Church restrictions" win BYU as many recruits as they lose.   BYU's starting QB this week was a long time Boise commit, and BYU didn't even recruit him to the very end when they needed a QB.  Once they offered, the kid immediately switched to BYU.  So, the "challenges" are partially a strength.

Also, as long as half of Tonga / Samoa is Mormon, BYU is going to get solid college football players.  

So yes.... BYU has challenges.   But your narrative that BYU isn't an appealing job for a head coach is dumb.     

 

[StanfordAggie]

2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

I don't really know the answer to that.... That'd be Tom Holmoe's job.

Names thrown around are an assistant from Bronco Mendenhall's staff, Jay Hill (coach at Weber State who has transformed their program), Ken Niumatalolo (who has been very successful at Navy, and now might be willing to move, since he has vested his retirement from Navy), Anderson at Stanford, Darrell Bevell, or....who knows.

Obviously, BYU isn't going to hire Nick Saban or Urban Meyer level of coach.   But they will get guys with similar resumes to what Bryan Harsin had when he applied for Boise's job.

 

And probably all of those names other than Jay Hill would be taking a pay cut to come to BYU. Sometimes they are willing to do that because they want a chance to be a head coach or they have family in Utah or they view it as a calling or whatever. But usually it's a tough sell to convince a person to leave a stable job for a job with less pay and worse job security. I think you're a bit optimistic about who would actually be interested in the job.

[Guest #1Stunner]

19 minutes ago, StanfordAggie said:

And probably all of those names other than Jay Hill would be taking a pay cut to come to BYU. Sometimes they are willing to do that because they want a chance to be a head coach or they have family in Utah or they view it as a calling or whatever. But usually it's a tough sell to convince a person to leave a stable job for a job with less pay and worse job security. I think you're a bit optimistic about who would actually be interested in the job.

Kalani Sitake reportedly makes $1.5M per year.   I don't think most assistant coaches make that much money.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/6/12/11911008/byu-football-head-coach-salary-kalani-sitake

 

Virginia has a very well paid staff.   Robert Anae makes $555,000.   Kalani Sitake was making $730,000 at Oregon State.   

BYU (the school) does not pay the majority of the head coach's salary

[WilliamHicks]

On 10/11/2018 at 11:55 AM, misplacedcowboy said:

LifeAlert's newest spokesperson:

"Help! I've fallen down the depth chart and I can't get up!"

That guy looks at least 35 years old. 

[SparkysDad]

6 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

OK, but BYU only plays about 5 P5 games per year.   BYU plays about 7-8 G5s per year.  You act like BYU has 12 P5 games per year.   The schedule isn't that difficult (ask the Ute fans on here...who say that BYU has a "creampuff schedule" all the time, and point to the MWC games BYU plays). But playing those games mostly early in the year and frequently on the road or at a neutral site (along with moral falling off at about game 4 of the season) is what makes you less competitive against the G5/FCS portion of your schedule.

And the reason that Sitake's job is in jeopardy is not that BYU lost to Cal or Washington....its' that he's lost to low level G5 teams like UMass, SJSU, Fresneck, etc. See above.

Also, you are emphasizing only the negatives...   The "Church restrictions" win BYU as many recruits as they lose.   BYU's starting QB this week was a long time Boise commit, and BYU didn't even recruit him to the very end when they needed a QB.  Once they offered, the kid immediately switched to BYU.  So, the "challenges" are partially a strength.  Boise State recruited him because 1) He was a reasonably talented local kid and, 2) they had no idea how much he'd regress! 

Also, as long as half of Tonga / Samoa is Mormon, BYU is going to get solid college football players.   "Hi!  That's how it used to be."

So yes.... BYU has challenges.   But your narrative that BYU isn't an appealing job for a head coach is dumb.  So with all the "appealingness" they hired Sitake.  Got it.  And by the way, I narrated that it wasn't an appealing job for a GOOD head coach!  

 

Counter argument above in italics...

[Pelado]

13 minutes ago, SparkysDad said:

Counter argument above in italics...

So Zach Wilson is a Boise local?  Didn't realize that.

[boisewitha-s]

2 hours ago, WilliamHicks said:

That guy looks at least 35 years old. 

There's 5 yr NFL vets the same age as this guy. 

[jackmormon]

On 10/11/2018 at 2:08 PM, NorCalCoug said:

Ken N...  an experienced HC with a proven record.  

BYU fans are going to love the triple option.

[jackmormon]

On 10/11/2018 at 2:36 PM, Del Scorcho said:

I honestly thought Sitake would do extremely well at BYU (and he still might, although maybe he's just not head coaching material).  I thought he would re-establish the Poly pipeline and get enough talented athletes to do well.  I thought after a good 5-7 years, that maybe Utah might be able to lure him away from BYU with more money once Whitt decides to hang it up. 

If Sitake doesn't work out, what about Jay Hill?  He'd be on my short list.

I just don't understand BYU's football philosophy?  It makes no-sense to consistently recruit in the 60's-80's and then have a strength of schedule 30-50's spots North of that?    

  

Sitake wanted the Utah State job when Andersen left. He was pissed when he wasn’t even given an interview.

[robe]

Time to bring in the Provo legend. Rocky Long. His Dad was a BYU football player when he was born and would love to return the cougars to greatness.

[madmartigan]

The problem with BYU is not its programs money, facilities, or historic prestige. It severely limits its HC options due to requiring that HCs be card-carrying Latter Day Saints. There aren't that many potentials that are active Latter Day Saints. In terms of money, facilities, and fan support, BYU would be at the top of the G5.  There are also recruiting limitations at BYU that make it less attractive.

You have to convince college-age males to spend their entire college existence not drinking or having sex. If they aren't members of the club and are African American, you also have to convince them to live and attend all-white Provo. I'll bet that's a huge culture shock.  I think those are the big limitations that hold BYU back from taking the next step as a program and getting into a P5, finding top-notch recruits, and attracting a high-quality HC, besides the challenging religious affiliation. 

[Pelado]

6 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

The problem with BYU is not its programs money, facilities, or historic prestige. It severely limits its HC options due to requiring that HCs be card-carrying Latter Day Saints. There aren't that many potentials that are active Latter Day Saints. In terms of money, facilities, and fan support, BYU would be at the top of the G5.  There are also recruiting limitations at BYU that make it less attractive.

You have to convince college-age males to spend their entire college existence not drinking or having sex. If they aren't members of the club and are African American, you also have to convince them to live and attend all-white Provo. I'll bet that's a huge culture shock.  I think those are the big limitations that hold BYU back from taking the next step as a program and getting into a P5, finding top-notch recruits, and attracting a high-quality HC, besides the challenging religious affiliation. 

Pretty much.

[soupslam1]

On 10/12/2018 at 9:18 AM, #1Stunner said:

Cute Video from Zach Wilson's little sister, doing a school assignment.

It's going to be strange not having a 35 year old QB starting.   This kid Zach Wilson is young!!

 

You should see her mother

[soupslam1]

1 hour ago, madmartigan said:

The problem with BYU is not its programs money, facilities, or historic prestige. It severely limits its HC options due to requiring that HCs be card-carrying Latter Day Saints. There aren't that many potentials that are active Latter Day Saints. In terms of money, facilities, and fan support, BYU would be at the top of the G5.  There are also recruiting limitations at BYU that make it less attractive.

You have to convince college-age males to spend their entire college existence not drinking or having sex. If they aren't members of the club and are African American, you also have to convince them to live and attend all-white Provo. I'll bet that's a huge culture shock.  I think those are the big limitations that hold BYU back from taking the next step as a program and getting into a P5, finding top-notch recruits, and attracting a high-quality HC, besides the challenging religious affiliation. 

Hammer meet nail. On the pro side, they have a 90% success rate recruiting the best Mormon kids and a very high success rate recruiting Poly Mormon kids. Without the Poly pipeline they would be in dire straits. 

[utenation]

1 hour ago, madmartigan said:

The problem with BYU is not its programs money, facilities, or historic prestige. It severely limits its HC options due to requiring that HCs be card-carrying Latter Day Saints. There aren't that many potentials that are active Latter Day Saints. In terms of money, facilities, and fan support, BYU would be at the top of the G5.  There are also recruiting limitations at BYU that make it less attractive.

You have to convince college-age males to spend their entire college existence not drinking or having sex. If they aren't members of the club and are African American, you also have to convince them to live and attend all-white Provo. I'll bet that's a huge culture shock.  I think those are the big limitations that hold BYU back from taking the next step as a program and getting into a P5, finding top-notch recruits, and attracting a high-quality HC, besides the challenging religious affiliation. 

Add in the small amount of good LDS athletes out west are mainly going to P12 schools that have a basic understanding and acceptance of missions.  You can pretty much bank on 70% of our top LDS kids are getting P12 offers and mostly taking them.

They also get to play in a power conference, chance for a major bowl, and live a normal college life. Where does that leave BYU? Look no further than their total amount of Kids in the NFL the last 10 years. Pretty sad.

The days of being LDS and having their family and coaches shove BYU down their throats are over. 

Not a good recipe for success in Provo.

[madmartigan]

14 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Hammer meet nail. On the pro side, they have a 90% success rate recruiting the best Mormon kids and a very high success rate recruiting Poly Mormon kids. Without the Poly pipeline they would be in dire straits. 

That used to be the case. BYU used to get all the LDS kids. BYU still gets its fair share but is increasingly losing more to P12 schools. Utah is getting a lot of the top LDS kids. As is Stanford, USC, UCLA, etc. USU doesn't normally get Utah kids that BYU wants, but that is starting to change as well. @utenation made some good points. Independence and coaching changes have not helped the product on the field for BYU. 

[soupslam1]

3 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

That used to be the case. BYU used to get all the LDS kids. BYU still gets its fair share but is increasingly losing more to P12 schools. Utah is getting a lot of the top LDS kids. As is Stanford, USC, UCLA, etc. USU doesn't normally get Utah kids that BYU wants, but that is starting to change as well. @utenation made some good points. Independence and coaching changes have not helped the product on the field for BYU. 

Sitake was a mistake and Mangum after his Hail Mary season has never lived up to the hype. 

[madmartigan]

3 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Sitake was a mistake and Mangum after his Hail Mary season has never lived up to the hype. 

Yeah the problem again, is who were the options? Ken N said no and that pretty much left Sitake. I for one, thought he'd be a good HC and he hasn't proved to be that yet. BYU was very fortunate to get LaVell Edwards and keep him for as long as they did. Bronco was weird as hell and had some faults but fit culturally with what BYU's leadership wants to do. He also won 9-10 games every year and had their lines pretty stout most of the time. The majority of BYU fans wanted him gone. The timing of it all has turned out badly thus far. 

[utenation]

31 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Hammer meet nail. On the pro side, they have a 90% success rate recruiting the best Mormon kids and a very high success rate recruiting Poly Mormon kids. Without the Poly pipeline they would be in dire straits. 

90%? What the hell are you smoking? I just looked at the 2018 class by state in rivals. ALL of them in the top 10 went to P5 schools. Mostly P12 Schools, Utah got 2. Not sure how many are LDS but it’s safe to say they have a higher % than any other state. And I’m sure the other state %’s say the same thing.

Not sure if you have watched BYU play but they are one of the most unathletic, slow teams in FBS. Even USU has better athletes.

[madmartigan]

2 minutes ago, utenation said:

90%? What the hell are you smoking I just looked at the 2018 class by state in rivals. ALL of them went to P5 schools. Mostly P12 Schools, Utah got 2. Not sure how many are LDS but it’s safe to say they have a higher % than any other state. And I’m sure the other state %’s say the same thing.

Not sure if you have watched BYU play but one of the most unathletic, slow teams in FBS.

When you have offers to live in Palo Alto or LA it's tough to say yes to Provo.