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retrofade

NHL is moving forward with Seattle expansion bid

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The NHL is moving forward with plans to expand to Seattle.

Commissioner Gary Bettman said Tuesday the Board of Governors’ executive committee recommended proceeding with Seattle’s expansion application, with an eye on voting to approve the league’s 32nd franchise in December. The recommendation came a few hours after key stakeholders presented their case to the committee and hit it off enough that Seattle could be awarded the league’s 32nd team two months from now.

”The notion is have the board vote on expansion,” Bettman said. ”And assuming, as I think everybody is, that it would be approved – I don’t want to be presumptuous of the board’s prerogative – but everything seems to be on track.”

It’s the best possible news that could have come out of the meetings for proponents of the NHL in Seattle. Bettman agreed with Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan that the preference is for the team to begin play in the 2020-21 season, and that’s still a very real possibility as long as renovations to KeyArena in downtown Seattle proceed as scheduled.

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/10/02/nhl-is-moving-forward-with-seattle-expansion-bid/

Great news for Seattle, and even better news because +++++ Quebec City.

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1 hour ago, pokerider said:

If they couldn't support a NBA franchise, what makes you think they could support a NHL team? 

Salt Lake should get a NHL team!

The issue with the Sonics wasn't fan support, it was largely due to the fact that Key Arena was the smallest NBA venue and in need of more refurbishment. The Seattle area had been hit hard by the recession, and there wasn't any public money to go towards a for a new stadium. Around the same time, the then New Orleans Hornets were displaced by Katrina, and played their home games in OKC in the interim, which proved that OKC was in fact a legitimate NBA market. After failing to get a new arena built, or Key Arena refurbished again, the Sonics owner sold the team to a group from OKC, who gave lip service towards keeping the team there before buying the lease out and moving the team to OKC. There was also a David Stern component to it because Seattle had largely paid for Safeco Field and Centurylink Field, so he was pissed that Seattle had treated MLB and the NFL better than the NBA in his view, which motivated him to help the move along. 

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18 hours ago, retrofade said:

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/10/02/nhl-is-moving-forward-with-seattle-expansion-bid/

Great news for Seattle, and even better news because +++++ Quebec City.

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I fart in your general direction, tiny brained wiper of other peoples' bottoms!

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BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

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1 hour ago, retrofade said:

The issue with the Sonics wasn't fan support, it was largely due to the fact that Key Arena was the smallest NBA venue and in need of more refurbishment. The Seattle area had been hit hard by the recession, and there wasn't any public money to go towards a for a new stadium. Around the same time, the then New Orleans Hornets were displaced by Katrina, and played their home games in OKC in the interim, which proved that OKC was in fact a legitimate NBA market. After failing to get a new arena built, or Key Arena refurbished again, the Sonics owner sold the team to a group from OKC, who gave lip service towards keeping the team there before buying the lease out and moving the team to OKC. There was also a David Stern component to it because Seattle had largely paid for Safeco Field and Centurylink Field, so he was pissed that Seattle had treated MLB and the NFL better than the NBA in his view, which motivated him to help the move along. 

Yea, the NBA tried to extort the city of Seattle to build a new arena, and Seattle was sick of forking out money for pro sports complexes. Seattle got screwed, and hopefully this is a step toward eventually getting the Sonics back there too.

My question is, if this NHL expansion only requires renovations to Key Arena and not a new arena, will that be enough to get an NBA franchise back there?

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Guess this means Arizona Coyotes will move to Central Division to give Colorado another Mountain Time Zone travel partner

Seattle to Pacific would give the Pacific Division 8 teams and moving Arizona to the Central Division would bump that division to 8 teams 

NHL won't split up Calgary & Edmonton even though both are Mountain Time Zone cities 

Then all four divisions have 8 teams to balance things out 

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1 hour ago, smltwnrckr said:

Yea, the NBA tried to extort the city of Seattle to build a new arena, and Seattle was sick of forking out money for pro sports complexes. Seattle got screwed, and hopefully this is a step toward eventually getting the Sonics back there too.

My question is, if this NHL expansion only requires renovations to Key Arena and not a new arena, will that be enough to get an NBA franchise back there?

It's just business. How did Seattle "get screwed"? The voters decided they didn't want to fund a new arena, it was their choice.

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29 minutes ago, renoskier said:

It's just business. How did Seattle "get screwed"? The voters decided they didn't want to fund a new arena, it was their choice.

The entire thing is about arenas... the NBA demands a certain level of arena, and they demand that from the cities where they have teams. The implication is that there should be a significant public investment made to keep your team in your city, despite the fact that the real value of these franchises (ie the value when they sell) continue to go up, up, up, thus making it reasonable to suggest that the Franchise itself and/or the NBA should reasonably be able to pony up for these projects. The NBA has until very recently shown itself to be unwilling to work with a community to keep a franchise there, even in places like Seattle where franchise viability is not a problem - the only problem is an old arena - but public funding for private matters might be controversial. They use franchise relocation as the stick to get cities to pony up. I'd consider that a screwing, especially since the NBA basically seems to have hit the breaks a little on relocation after The Sonics moved.

Though I will revise and say Sonics fans - not necessarily the city of Seattle - got screwed.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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20 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

The entire thing is about arenas... the NBA demands a certain level of arena, and they demand that from the cities where they have teams. The implication is that there should be a significant public investment made to keep your team in your city, despite the fact that the real value of these franchises (ie the value when they sell) continue to go up, up, up, thus making it reasonable to suggest that the Franchise itself and/or the NBA should reasonably be able to pony up for these projects. The NBA has until very recently shown itself to be unwilling to work with a community to keep a franchise there, even in places like Seattle where franchise viability is not a problem - the only problem is an old arena - but public funding for private matters might be controversial. They use franchise relocation as the stick to get cities to pony up. I'd consider that a screwing, especially since the NBA basically seems to have hit the breaks a little on relocation after The Sonics moved.

Though I will revise and say Sonics fans - not necessarily the city of Seattle - got screwed.

I get it. I'm just surprised that folks who are otherwise "pro-business/capitalism", not you necessarily, feel differently when it comes to professional sports franchises extorting municipalities. (I wish I knew a word that conveyed with similar strength but without the illegal connotation as "extortion").  It's not just the NBA, the NFL has also obviously played this game. And it's not about whether or not a franchise is financially successful in a particular city, it's about the maximization of franchise value.

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2 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

Guess this means Arizona Coyotes will move to Central Division to give Colorado another Mountain Time Zone travel partner

Seattle to Pacific would give the Pacific Division 8 teams and moving Arizona to the Central Division would bump that division to 8 teams 

NHL won't split up Calgary & Edmonton even though both are Mountain Time Zone cities 

Then all four divisions have 8 teams to balance things out 

Its been talked about keeping Arizona in Pacific, moving Colorado to Pacific and moving the Alberta Teams to Central.

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2 minutes ago, TGIFaanes said:

Its been talked about keeping Arizona in Pacific, moving Colorado to Pacific and moving the Alberta Teams to Central.

Guess that would work - that would give the central 3 MTZ teams and 3 Canadian teams 

That would leave Vancouver as the lone Canadian city in the Pacific Division - But Winnipeg id the lone Canadian city in the Central Division now 

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20 minutes ago, renoskier said:

I get it. I'm just surprised that folks who are otherwise "pro-business/capitalism", not you necessarily, feel differently when it comes to professional sports franchises extorting municipalities. (I wish I knew a word that conveyed with similar strength but without the illegal connotation as "extortion").  It's not just the NBA, the NFL has also obviously played this game. And it's not about whether or not a franchise is financially successful in a particular city, it's about the maximization of franchise value.

The very libertarian sources out there write a lot about it. Reason.com will regularly have a piece critical about publicly funded sports complexes.  

I'm torn as a fan, especially as a fan of a franchise that almost left (Sac Kings) if not for an arena project that had some (if less modest than previously proposed) publicly financed aspects to it. I think that rooting for a sports team is a cultural activity that has real impact and offers a unique, cool experience that brings something dynamic to a city. But I also don't necessarily buy the arguments that these investments are always (if ever) a net positive economically for the cities. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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13 hours ago, pokerider said:

If they couldn't support a NBA franchise, what makes you think they could support a NHL team? 

Salt Lake should get a NHL team!

There's perhaps nothing wrong with Salt Lake City bidding for an NHL team someday but Seatlle is a far larger market.  The Seattle metropolitan area is 3 times the size of Salt Lake City.  Utah has less than 1/2 the population of WA, not to mention there are a lot of people next door in Oregon that are fans of Seattle based sports teams.  Utah has less than 1/2 the number of registered USA hockey players that WA does.  This spring the season ticket drive for the expansion Seattle team sold 25k ticket commitments in 2 hours with another 8k sold over 24 hours for a total of 33k.  Compare that to the most recent expansion team in Vegas who sold 5k season ticket commitments in 2 days and another 9k over the course of a month for 16k total.  There's plenty of demand for the NHL in Seattle.  Seattle will be a great regional rival for Vancouver.

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10 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

Guess that would work - that would give the central 3 MTZ teams and 3 Canadian teams 

That would leave Vancouver as the lone Canadian city in the Pacific Division - But Winnipeg id the lone Canadian city in the Central Division now 

Another idea thats been talked about is to switch 8 Four Team Divisions.

LAK, ANA, VGK, SJS

SEA, VAN, Cal, Edm

Ari, Col, Dal, Winn

Nash, Minn, St Louis, Chicago

Bos, Mont, Tor, Ott

NYR, NYI, NJ, Buff

Pitt, Phil, Wash, Det

Car, TB, Fl, Columbus

 

West is easy to figure out, East on the other hand is more difficult. No matter what route they take in realignment. A rivalry is going to be broken up or a team is going to get screwed in travel.

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14 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

The entire thing is about arenas... the NBA demands a certain level of arena, and they demand that from the cities where they have teams. The implication is that there should be a significant public investment made to keep your team in your city, despite the fact that the real value of these franchises (ie the value when they sell) continue to go up, up, up, thus making it reasonable to suggest that the Franchise itself and/or the NBA should reasonably be able to pony up for these projects. The NBA has until very recently shown itself to be unwilling to work with a community to keep a franchise there, even in places like Seattle where franchise viability is not a problem - the only problem is an old arena - but public funding for private matters might be controversial. They use franchise relocation as the stick to get cities to pony up. I'd consider that a screwing, especially since the NBA basically seems to have hit the breaks a little on relocation after The Sonics moved.

Though I will revise and say Sonics fans - not necessarily the city of Seattle - got screwed.

It is called capitalism and communists and their environments always suck because they always lose..

Just like any other business if they can make more money in Oklahoma City they will move there.  I expect at some point in the near future Microsoft, Boeing and others will be forced to leave the state.  Like California you make keep the company headquarters but it will just be an empty shell.

Cities are boring shitholes, sports complexes are about the only reason to live in one.  Cities need to keep the masses happy or their unhappy situations will overflow into violence.   You better vote to pay more next time.

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