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thelawlorfaithful

The Kavanaughcalypse!

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10 minutes ago, HR_Poke said:

Beginning? Pretty much has been since Bork...

Either your sarcasm meter needs tuning or I failed at my use of sarcasm. I think I'm going to blame you.

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5 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Either your sarcasm meter needs tuning or I failed at my use of sarcasm. I think I'm going to blame you.

Typical communist...

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1 hour ago, happycamper said:

Yeah congrats dems, you are doing a great job of staring down a 70% chance of a WAY more conservative justice than the one you had sitting in front of you.

What difference does it make if the person votes just to the right of Clarence Thomas or just to the Left?  They are still voting ton the same side 100% of the time.

The Democrats job is to show what a shit show it is when Republicans are in charge so they can take the senate.  Every bit of pain the Republicans are getting is richly deserved after what they did to Obama with the filibuster and how they denied Garland.  Democrats need to smarten up, though, and make sure they kill the filibuster as soon as they get back the congress and the presidency in two years.  We have seen that Republicans can't get their unpopular agenda through because they face such a blistering backlash from voters.  Voters need to be exposed to their choices by letting the party in charge enact their agenda...if voters don't like it they can change the party.  

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21 minutes ago, Akkula said:

What difference does it make if the person votes just to the right of Clarence Thomas or just to the Left?  They are still voting ton the same side 100% of the time.

The Democrats job is to show what a shit show it is when Republicans are in charge so they can take the senate.  Every bit of pain the Republicans are getting is richly deserved after what they did to Obama with the filibuster and how they denied Garland.  Democrats need to smarten up, though, and make sure they kill the filibuster as soon as they get back the congress and the presidency in two years.  We have seen that Republicans can't get their unpopular agenda through because they face such a blistering backlash from voters.  Voters need to be exposed to their choices by letting the party in charge enact their agenda...if voters don't like it they can change the party.  

You don't think that there's a LOT more right to Kavanaugh?

You don't think that dissents and opinions affect precedent?

You don't think that most opinions are nuanced and carefully crafted instead of a simple yes/no?

Not real up on how the Supreme Court works are you?

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1 hour ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Regarding your first paragraph, it's my understanding that with regard to any questions which arise about any Supreme Court nominee, the president can ask the FBI to conduct an investigation; doesn't have to involve possible criminal misconduct. The difference between you and I is my opinion that appointees to the Supreme Court are so important that IS "big boy work." That you don't consider it as such I find to be amazing.

As to your second paragraph, as I've already said, my problem isn't so much what is alleged by Ford, it's that Kavanugh denies it. Again your opinion of the importance of a seat on the Supreme Court is vastly different from mine. This is the effing SCOTUS for crissakes! No one who would lie in order to get one of those nine positions should ever be allowed to obtain it!

 

Are you insinuating he is lying? He has been described by 65 other women as someone who has integrity and treated them respectfully. Yet you want to believe a woman who pops out of the blue and can’t even remember the details of something so personal. I believe him more than I believe her. Still I’m willing to let her have her say and provide credible provable evidence he assaulted her. Absent that, the senate should go forward with confirmation.

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2 minutes ago, happycamper said:

You don't think that there's a LOT more right to Kavanaugh?

You don't think that dissents and opinions affect precedent?

You don't think that most opinions are nuanced and carefully crafted instead of a simple yes/no?

Not real up on how the Supreme Court works are you?

Nobody is scared of Trump's bullying negotiating tactics anymore.  Shutdown the government it you don't get the wall....etc.  There isn't a dime's worth of difference between any of these reactionaries....just the veneer changes.

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Just now, Akkula said:

Nobody is scared of Trump's bullying negotiating tactics anymore.  Shutdown the government it you don't get the wall....etc.  There isn't a dime's worth of difference between any of these reactionaries....just the veneer changes.

My man. It is the veneer that is the same. It's the fiddly bits that are different between Kavanaugh and Barrett. Not coincidentally the fiddly bits are generally the most important ones. 

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2 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

I find this comment interesting from her lawyer. 

Ford’s lawyer told CNN on Monday that it’s not “her job” to corroborate her allegations, and that Kavanaugh should be the one required to prove his innocence.

This guy doesn’t understand our system of justice and shouldn’t be practicing law.

Dear god man, what is that abomination of a website?

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2 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

I find this comment interesting from her lawyer. 

Ford’s lawyer told CNN on Monday that it’s not “her job” to corroborate her allegations, and that Kavanaugh should be the one required to prove his innocence.

This guy doesn’t understand our system of justice and shouldn’t be practicing law.

This isn't a criminal case...it is a political choice made by a bunch of politicians.  When you rely on 1-2 votes to secure a nomination and don't pursue a consensus pick then this is what happens...small things can derail the vote of a couple of voters.  If you guys nominate an even more extreme reactionary you will get more of the same because the election is coming up and the American people loathe your choice of candidate.

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1 hour ago, TGIFaanes said:

Something on my mind. If they push this back a few weeks, would this run into the Government shutdown vote and the Dems force a shutdown to prevent the confirmation?

I believe last week they passed another spending bill that sends the deadline pass the midterms now

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12 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

I find this comment interesting from her lawyer. 

Ford’s lawyer told CNN on Monday that it’s not “her job” to corroborate her allegations, and that Kavanaugh should be the one required to prove his innocence.

This guy doesn’t understand our system of justice and shouldn’t be practicing law.

If this whole quote is correct, this is actually kind of the direction the country has gone with high profile sexual assault allegations against people. Once you are accused, it is your job to prove your innocence most of the time, not for the accuser to prove what happened happened. 

 

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25 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Are you insinuating he is lying? He has been described by 65 other women as someone who has integrity and treated them respectfully. Yet you want to believe a woman who pops out of the blue and can’t even remember the details of something so personal. I believe him more than I believe her. Still I’m willing to let her have her say and provide credible provable evidence he assaulted her. Absent that, the senate should go forward with confirmation.

No man that's not a great way to look at it. If you're accused of murder you don't say "let me introduce you to all the not murdered people I know!!!" That said the timing is VERY political. IMO the way the Republican leadership are going is the right way to go about it. Talk to her on the Hill, consider her claims, and go from there. The Senate is supposed to be a deliberative body and that is what they are doing, all is good. 

Just now, wolfpack1 said:

If this whole quote is correct, this is actually kind of the direction the country has gone with high profile sexual assault allegations against people. Once you are accused, it is your job to prove your innocence most of the time, not for the accuser to prove what happened happened. 

 

I mean, it isn't her job to corroborate her allegations - it is the state's job generally. It really really isn't Kavanaugh's job to prove his innocence though. 

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56 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Are you insinuating he is lying? He has been described by 65 other women as someone who has integrity and treated them respectfully. Yet you want to believe a woman who pops out of the blue and can’t even remember the details of something so personal. I believe him more than I believe her. Still I’m willing to let her have her say and provide credible provable evidence he assaulted her. Absent that, the senate should go forward with confirmation.

No, I wasn't so insinuating. What I was saying is Convert is as effing stoopid as Orrin Hatch in deciding Ford is lying before we've even heard from her publicly or anyone else who may have been in the relevant house for that matter.

BTW, I'll cut Convert a bit of slack due to his ignorance of legal proceedings. However, Hatch is an attorney. Although the hearing procedure isn't a trial, anyone who has attended law school knows it is improper to render a decision in a dispute matter when you've only heard from one of the parties. (I frequently wonder just how in the world non-Mormons can live in a state run by asshats like Hatch. Hell, how can MORMON WOMEN live in a state where asshats like that guy run things?)

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55 minutes ago, Akkula said:

Nobody is scared of Trump's bullying negotiating tactics anymore.  Shutdown the government it you don't get the wall....etc.  There isn't a dime's worth of difference between any of these reactionaries....just the veneer changes.

Nor should anyone be scared of his threats to sue for slander. He never wins such suits if they go to trial and if there's any factual dispute necessitating him to testify, is there a bigger liar in the entire country than Donald Trump? Seriously, is there a bigger known liar in this entire country than Donald Trump?

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2 hours ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

You could be correct.

Most surprising to me is that he came out and said he's "never" done anything "like that." Because they tend to testify so often, most cops with a brain (excluding Mark Fuhrman here) are careful not to talk in absolutes like that. Kavanaugh isn't a cop of course and although he's been a member of the bar for a couple decades, it doesn't look like he's ever been what the English call a barrister, meaning someone who actually tries cases, so he probably hasn't learned not to make such broad-brushed statements. If Kavanaugh doesn't get confirmed, I'm sure it will be because another woman will now come forward and assert that he forced himself on her too.

If he was a little rough with Ford, maybe violated her physically without her consent for a period of time and then obviously he let her go.   If he did that and liked it, he would have done it again and we would have other women coming forward.  He would have done it again, probably several times.   

What we have is 67 women signing a letter supporting his case and 1 woman making an accusation that isn't even criminal.

If after a couple weeks we have no more women accusing him, I would with good conscience support this guy.

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11 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Nor should anyone be scared of his threats to sue for slander. He never wins such suits if they go to trial and if there's any factual dispute necessitating him to testify, is there a bigger liar in the entire country than Donald Trump? Seriously, is there a bigger known liar in this entire country than Donald Trump?

 

 

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10 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

If he was a little rough with Ford, maybe violated her physically without her consent for a period of time and then obviously he let her go.   If he did that and liked it, he would have done it again and we would have other women coming forward.  He would have done it again, probably several times.   

What we have is 67 women signing a letter supporting his case and 1 woman making an accusation that isn't even criminal.

If after a couple weeks we have no more women accusing him, I would with good conscience support this guy.

Kavannaugh isn’t saying maybe there was a misunderstanding during the incident. He’s saying nothing happened at all. He’s saying you can’t even put him at the party in question, let alone in the room. That’s a pretty fierce and vulnerable position. He intentionally lowered the bar a lot. If he can credibly he shown to have attended that party, then he lied and should be rejected.

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42 minutes ago, happycamper said:

No man that's not a great way to look at it. If you're accused of murder you don't say "let me introduce you to all the not murdered people I know!!!" That said the timing is VERY political. IMO the way the Republican leadership are going is the right way to go about it. Talk to her on the Hill, consider her claims, and go from there. The Senate is supposed to be a deliberative body and that is what they are doing, all is good. 

I mean, it isn't her job to corroborate her allegations - it is the state's job generally. It really really isn't Kavanaugh's job to prove his innocence though. 

To me, if you are going to make an accusation, you probably should have some proof of it to start things off. You know maybe ironclad details, a piece of evidence something along those lines to get things moving. But also don't like the whole talked to her represenative who then told her to talk to Feinstein. Then she got a lawyer where her lawyer and Feinstein have been talking since late July about the incident. 

Just seems the more details that come out the more odd and sketchy it seems.

However getting both of them to testify and all that is a good thing for the incident.

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2 minutes ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Kavannaugh isn’t saying maybe there was a misunderstanding during the incident. He’s saying nothing happened at all. He’s saying you can’t even put him at the party in question, let alone in the room. That’s a pretty fierce and vulnerable position. He intentionally lowered the bar a lot. If he can credibly he shown to have attended that party, then he lied and should be rejected.

I doubt he would say all that if it wasn't true.

Lawyers are some of the dumbest people alive and least educated but they do usually know absolutes are bad policy.  

If he is proven to have lied though then of course he is out.

 

Given that the democrats waited to bring this forward.  Means in my mind they think this accusation is worth nothing and there only goal is to get a delay in the vote.

Given that we have no other women coming forward,  It leads me to doubt anything evil happened.

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