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thelawlorfaithful

The Kavanaughcalypse!

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9 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Is that really true though? Socially we are far more liberal than 40 years ago - and our older voters are more liberal today than they were 40 years ago. Economically it is the opposite. As I've aged I've gone from wishy washy libertarian to Wyoming democrat/Rockefeller republican. That isn't really a rightward shift. 

I think both Dems and Repubs are different than they were 40yrs ago.  All I'm saying is that as we age, I think we make a shift towards conservatism.

See this, for example https://latest.com/2016/07/science-shows-people-get-more-conservative-with-age-but-could-it-be-something-else/

 

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2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

Too much identity politics.   

I don't see Utah really trending liberal, and that doesn't really have that much to do with the Mormon population or race.  The Hispanic population in Utah is probably majority Republican.

Not trending liberal, trending moderate.

As to Hispanics, it wouldn't surprise me if they don't go politically incognito in Utah. For years our plumber in L.A. was a Jewish guy who had a couple dozen people working for him. The business was started by his father and given the family's last name which anyone in the know would immediately recognize as being a member of the tribe. So when the guy got married, sold the business and moved to St. George so he and his wife could be near her Catholic family, the guy restarted his business under another name. I can't remember what it was and wouldn't say if I knew because he was very much a go-getter so it wouldn't surprise me to hear he's still in business. My point is, the guy knew that with a name like Schwartz Plumbing (that wasn't his last name), his chances of business success in Utah would not be good. Not only that but I heard he converted to Catholicism because of fear that even a secular Jew might have difficulty getting work in St. George.

Maybe the guy is unique but I highly doubt it and bet there are a lot of Hispanics in Utah cities not named Salt Lake who say they're Mormon but in reality don't identify as such.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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2 hours ago, jackmormon said:

Fifteen women have now gone on record to say that Donald Trump sexually assaulted them.

Only 15? What a piker! And I thought Donald J. Trump was a REAL man!

Boom goes the dynamite.

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1 hour ago, sean327 said:

Ford's friend is now retracting her earlier statement. For all you libs this comes from NPR so good luck trashing the source.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/20/649787076/kavanaugh-accuser-classmate-that-it-happened-or-not-i-have-no-idea

That woman is an idiot, plain and simple. But correct me if I'm wrong. Is anyone with an idiot friend a liar?

I mean, I guess that's possible. Still . . .

Boom goes the dynamite.

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22 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

The girl was her best friend from college, and the incident was in high school, no? So it seems she didn't share with her college best friend an incident that had happened in the past. A lot of people go to college and try to leave things that happened in high school behind and don't share with their new college friends. If she really only explored this stuff in more recent therapy sessions, I wouldn't be surprised at all that she hadn't talked about it since high school.

All that being said, the more I think about it, the more this all makes a sh*t ton of sense to me in terms of how this has played out.

1. An incident happens involving a guy and a girl partying in high school. Most certainly involved the guy being at least inappropriate, but also didn't escalate to forced sex. 

2. While a traumatic experience for her to some extent (possibly magnified by other traumatic experiences in which she was victimized in the past), it was also an experience that wasn't particularly remarkable or novel, and thus she opted to move on as best she can on as best terms as she can.

3. The dude goes on to be a lawyer and judge, political bigwig, etc. She goes on to have some success in academia, and in the midst of it all probably has some personal/marital problems perhaps fueled by not dealing with this and potentially other past traumas. While now trying to deal with this in therapy, she pieces these things together and starts to face and deal with these past traumas.

4. The dude in the middle of one of these past events is nominated for a highly contentious Supreme Court seat with high stakes. While believing that this incident may be relavent (especially if it may be one of a number of similar incidents that may have happened since), and while she knows this thing happened with this guy, she also personally struggles with many of the clear questions of whether her memories of the event are reliable. She writes a letter to her Senator. The goal of this letter is not as much to be made public immediately, but to basically inform someone who is part of the process that this happened mainly in case there are other quiet/unspoken murmmers of other similar events. The senator hasn't heard anything and doesn't immediately move on it because she knows that this, when made public, would play out exactly like it has... as a public trial of a woman's credibility over her character and how well she remembers an event three decades ago, a trial that the woman probably was not interested in going at alone but who, was this a pattern, was interested in being part of a larger group. 

This makes the most sense to me, and while people like toolsrulez will not accept it because it assumes good faith on the part of a Democrat, it's pretty clear to me anyways this is what happened. In instances like this, the only real way to build credibility is through numbers. This one incident may be hard to pin down. You get 4 or 5 incidents like this, and it's easier to paint a picture. Think Roy Moore. And like Roy Moore, these things have a tendency to stay buried when they involve powerful people and thus the individual stories from a long time ago that can be pulled apart by individual scrutiny become part of a larger pattern with recurring themes. 

Fair opinion.  I don't share it.  I think you're trying too hard for everyone to hold hands and sign kumbaya.  Are you an arbitrator by profession?

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1 hour ago, sean327 said:

Question for all the Liberals/Progressives/Socialists/Communists, or whatever the hell you guys call yourselves these days. 

Why is an Originalist being nominated to the Supreme Court so scary to you guys? Every one of you claim that the Constitution is the law of the land, so why do non "Living Document" judges make you curl up into the fetal position? If you want the Constitution changed, why not go through the process spelled out? Or is it just easier to subvert the Constitution by legislating from the bench?

I've explained elsewhere why originalism is a fraud. Among other things it renders asserting abortion to be unconstitutional while at the same time asserting that the 2nd amendment gives Americans a right to have firearms in their home for self protection as did Scalia at odds with logic. My understanding is it's basically a judicial philosophy created by Antonin Scalia to fit his staunch Catholic worldview. 

If you want an expansive explanation and are willing to approach it with an open mind, pick up a copy of "The Justice of Contradictions" by Professor Richard Hasen. There is much more in there explaining how by a careful examination of his writings, Scalia's judicial approach was essentially to start at the decision he wanted to reach and work backwards to try to find law which would allow him to get there. I'm not saying the same approach wasn't used by the Earl Warrens of the court too but two wrongs don't make a right as they say.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html?m=1

So, apparently there were some yearbooks from Dr. Fords HS digitally on the web.  An attempt was made to scrub those before the letter was leaked.  As I've told my children, once on the web forever on the web.

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1 hour ago, bluerules009 said:

Clinton has been in court.  Clinton has had investigations over decades proving his point.

Even the New York Times thinks he raped.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/opinion/juanita-broaddrick-bill-clinton.html

That wasn't my point. My point was that there is suspicion of both Slick Willy and The Donald. Both have undoubtedly committed sexual assaults and possibly or maybe probably also rape. However, you tried to distinguish Trump as being less culpable and with due respect, that is ridiculous. Both are, at a minimum, cads and should be called out as such.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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32 minutes ago, pokebball said:

I think both Dems and Repubs are different than they were 40yrs ago.  All I'm saying is that as we age, I think we make a shift towards conservatism.

See this, for example https://latest.com/2016/07/science-shows-people-get-more-conservative-with-age-but-could-it-be-something-else/

I don't know. I would say that when it comes to me and my friends, as we age, we make a shift toward political moderation.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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15 minutes ago, pokebball said:

https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html?m=1

So, apparently there were some yearbooks from Dr. Fords HS digitally on the web.  An attempt was made to scrub those before the letter was leaked.  As I've told my children, once on the web forever on the web.

You seem to be making a case for something, and yet have said over and over that you haven't taken a stance. (edit: or at least that your mind is open as to what happened)

So what do you think happened?

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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Guest #1Stunner
31 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Not trending liberal, trending moderate.

As to Hispanics, it wouldn't surprise me if they don't go politically incognito in Utah. For years our plumber in L.A. was a Jewish guy who had a couple dozen people working for him. The business was started by his father and given the family's last name which anyone in the know would immediately recognize as being a member of the tribe. So when the guy got married, sold the business and moved to St. George so he and his wife could be near her Catholic family, the guy restarted his business under another name. I can't remember what it was and wouldn't say if I knew because he was very much a go-getter so it wouldn't surprise me to hear he's still in business. My point is, the guy knew that with a name like Schwartz Plumbing (that wasn't his last name), his chances of business success in Utah would not be good. Not only that but I heard he converted to Catholicism because of fear that even a secular Jew might have difficulty getting work in St. George.

Maybe the guy is unique but I highly doubt it and bet there are a lot of Hispanics in Utah cities not named Salt Lake who say they're Mormon but in reality don't identify as such.

Your friend's story is odd.  He was afraid (with no basis) that that people would be prejudiced against someone with a Jewish last name in Utah, and not do business with them?   He must have mistaken Utah with some other place....

Remember, a lot of people in Utah have lived in foreign countries (the recipe to intolerance is being exposed to different cultures).   Tons of Mormons (like @Jack Bauer ) speak Spanish, and have lived in foreign countries.   I wouldn't be surprised if @AndroidAggie and @madmartigan speak Spanish as well.  Because of that, they aren't afraid of foreign cultures.    And moreover, they actually understand and enjoy foreign cultures.  They also respect people believing differently from them...

I don't think there is nearly as much racial and cultural segregation in Utah as in California.   Mexicans in Utah don't all just live in one place.    Is there racisim and intolerance in Utah like in all places---yes.   But it isn't the huge deal that you seem to be inferring.   This vibe that non-Mormons in Utah are all afraid of not getting hired, which you are suggesting exists, does not exist.   Maybe the bad thing in Utah is that people hire their friends----more nepotism than anything.

 

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13 minutes ago, pokebball said:

https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html?m=1

So, apparently there were some yearbooks from Dr. Fords HS digitally on the web.  An attempt was made to scrub those before the letter was leaked.  As I've told my children, once on the web forever on the web.

Well, let's be clear since I initially misinterpreted what you meant. The scrubbing wasn't done by Ford.

Truth be told, the scrubbing was probably done by the same kind of tight ass Catholics who continue to support a Pope who has covered up pedo priests.

Not that there was any reason in the world for somebody to look down at those girls. As said above, wild parties weren't exactly uncommon in the seventies and eighties. I should know because I attended a number of them, albeit without getting puke drunk because I tended to smoke a joint before going in and therefore usually drank only a couple brewed rather than shooting a 6-pack worth as soon as walked in like so many other guys did.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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1 minute ago, smltwnrckr said:

You seem to be making a case for something, and yet have said over and over that you haven't taken a stance. 

So what do you think happened?

I'm simply sharing information and posing questions for us all to think about and consider.  You presented what you think happened and I think you make some pretty significant assumptions.  I told you I thought those assumptions were fair, based on the information we have but that I didn't agree with all of your assumptions.

I've tried to question information that has been presented.  I've question assumptions that have been presented, such as your suggestion that both are telling the truth.  The truth is reality in my opinion and I continue to disagree with and challenge that presumption.  I never said it was stupid.  I think you did in a sarcastic reply to another poster.

What do I think happened?  First of all, I feel pretty certain that the timing of the charge, including the leak of the letter, was politically motivated.  I think that put Dr. Ford in a very shytty place.  And as more and more shyt about both Kavanaugh and Ford is making its' way to the media and public, the more I feel sorry for both of them.  Kavanaugh signed up for it, but I'm not sure Ford did.  I'd like to see the leaker held accountable for that.

Regarding high school, nobody remembers so I have no opinion.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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2 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Your friend's story is odd.  He was afraid (with no basis) that that people would be prejudiced against someone with a Jewish last name in Utah, and not do business with them?   He must have mistaken Utah with some other place....

Remember, a lot of people in Utah have lived in foreign countries (the recipe to intolerance is being exposed to different cultures).   Tons of Mormons (like @Jack Bauer ) speak Spanish, and have lived in foreign countries.   I wouldn't be surprised if @AndroidAggie and @madmartigan speak Spanish as well.  Because of that, they aren't afraid of foreign cultures.    And moreover, they actually understand and enjoy foreign cultures.  They also respect people believing differently from them...

I don't think there is nearly as much racial and cultural segregation in Utah as in California.   Mexicans in Utah don't all just live in one place.    Is there racisim and intolerance in Utah like in all places---yes.   But it isn't the huge deal that you seem to be inferring.   This vibe that non-Mormons in Utah are all afraid of not getting hired, which you are suggesting exists, does not exist.   Maybe the bad thing in Utah is that people hire their friends----more nepotism than anything.

You are seriously mistaken about "segregation" in California my friend.

The plumber moved to St. George about 25 years ago and I know from another friend who moved there not long after that things have changed quite a bit. Still, can you provide links for Utah businesses containing names like Schwartz or Goldman? There are plenty of such businesses in my area but then, many of my neighbors are Jewish.

In fact, since we're discussing diversity, our next door neighbors on one side are Jewish, the neighbors on the other side are Filipino and the family immediately next door to them is Chinese-American, the single guy renter immediately across the street from us is from Ecuador, the one family next door to him is biracial (both half white and half Asian), the widow across the street from us on the other side (we have a corner lot) is African American and the guy who lives next door to her is gay with two adopted sons. Before you ask, there are no Mexican-Americans who live close to us as I don't think they can afford this neighborhood but they certainly would be welcome if they could.

How many neighborhoods in Utah look like that? I would venture to say none.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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13 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

Well, let's be clear since I initially misinterpreted what you meant. The scrubbing wasn't done by Ford.

Truth be told, the scrubbing was probably done by the same kind of tight ass Catholics who continue to support a Pope who has covered up pedo priests.

Not that there was any reason in the world for somebody to look down at those girls. As said above, wild parties weren't exactly uncommon in the seventies and eighties. I should know because I attended a number of them, albeit without getting puke drunk because I tended to smoke a joint before going in and therefore usually drank only a couple brewed rather than shooting a 6-pack worth as soon as walked in like so many other guys did.

I'm going home from work tonight, pulling out my HS yearbooks and doing some reminiscing. 

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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Guest #1Stunner
8 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

You are seriously mistaken about "segregation" in California my friend.

The plumber moved to St. George about 25 years ago and I know from another friend who moved there not long after that things have changed quite a bit. Still, can you provide links for Utah businesses containing names like Schwartz or Goldman? There are plenty of such businesses in my area but then, many of my neighbors are Jewish.

In fact, since we're discussing diversity, our next door neighbors on one side are Jewish, the neighbors on the other side are Filipino and the family immediately next door to them is Chinese-American, the single guy renter immediately across the street from us is from Ecuador, the one family next door to him is biracial (both half white and half Asian), the widow across the street from us on the other side (we have a corner lot) is African American and the guy who lives next door to her is gay with two adopted sons. Before you ask, there are no Mexican-Americans who live close to us as I don't think they can afford this neighborhood but they certainly would be welcome if they could.

How many neighborhoods in Utah look like that? I would venture to say none.

Utah obviously doesn't have as much diversity as California, but I'm telling you, that whoever told you that there are huge racial tension in Utah doesn't know what they are talking about. 

And the Mormons aren't out to get the Jews----probably the opposite.

Is there racism like all places?  Yes.... Is it a big problem?  No.  

Utah is the West.   Like all Western States, there isn't really a huge race problem.   It's not like the KKK is running around.  

 

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10 minutes ago, pokebball said:

I'm going home from work tonight, pulling out my HS yearbooks and doing some reminiscing. 

When I last did that, it was depressing. Not only to see how young I looked, but to see all the girls I probably could have banged had I had the guts and knowledge that I later did in college. Oh well, better late than never.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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5 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Utah obviously doesn't have as much diversity as California, but I'm telling you, that whoever told you that there are huge racial tension in Utah doesn't know what they are talking about. 

And the Mormons aren't out to get the Jews----probably the opposite.

Is there racism like all places?  Yes.... Is it a big problem?  No.  

Utah is the West.   Like all Western States, there isn't really a huge race problem.   It's not like the KKK is running around.  

I never said racial tension or overt bigotry. Just that even my Mormon friend has told me multiple times that he thought the Jewish guy we both knew here in L.A. probably wouldn't have become as successful in the plumbing business if he didn't keep quiet about his ethnicity when he got to St. George.

As to Mormons, I said once before here probably a year or so ago that the guy in St. George is my oldest friend and that although I've never been that close with another Mormon, I've known plenty, including by dad's former law partner. That guy, Chris, was and presumably still is salt of the earth. You literally couldn't meet a nicer person and in four years of working for the two of them as a paralegal, I never once heard Chris make a derogatory statement about a member of a minority group.

Boom goes the dynamite.

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2 hours ago, sean327 said:

Ford's friend is now retracting her earlier statement. For all you libs this comes from NPR so good luck trashing the source.

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/20/649787076/kavanaugh-accuser-classmate-that-it-happened-or-not-i-have-no-idea

And it has come out that Ford's lawyer Debra Katz is also the vice chair of the Project On Government Oversight.  POGO co-signed a letter to Feinstein and Grassley demanding Kavanaugh's records during his confirmation hearings.  POGO is funded by George Soros.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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58 minutes ago, SleepingGiantsFan said:

That wasn't my point. My point was that there is suspicion of both Slick Willy and The Donald. Both have undoubtedly committed sexual assaults and possibly or maybe probably also rape. However, you tried to distinguish Trump as being less culpable and with due respect, that is ridiculous. Both are, at a minimum, cads and should be called out as such.

Donalds accusers haven't won settlements or forced him to lie under oath.  Donald never had to beg forgiveness from a judge for his testimony and never lost his law licence for it.   The credibility of Donald's accusers are far less than Clintons, those and many other reasons make the two situations less than comparable.

I will grant Clinton was never found guilty.

 

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