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mugtang

Democratic Socialism - No way to pay for it

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6 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

Are you really going to hump @Boise fan for approval?

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

I don't need anyone's approval. You are a mwcboard meme, boise fan needs to get it right.

 

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GO POKES!!!

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16 minutes ago, NMpackalum said:

More cluelessness. I have an ultrasound in my office because the alternative for the patient is to spend 4 hours in the ER to get a 10 minute sonogram, wait another 2 hours for the radiologist to make the read and be billed $1500 for the the privilege and be discharged to call your doctor in the morning. Or she can call me for her bleeding and cramping and she can swing in for an ultrasound in an hour and I can tell her she’s not miscarrying. I’ll charge a limited ultrasound for $250, get reimbursed $120 for a net profit of $20. She goes home reassured that the pregnancy is fine instead of waiting a day or two frantic about her baby. 

More bullshit from you, Physician owned hospitals make up 96 of the top 100 hospitals based on CMS criteria for quality and cost. You would rather trust corporations profit motive or government efficiency over the moral hazard of physicians with a financial stake. Clearly you care about politics over results, speculation over reality.

But don't you see?  Why is there so much "fat" built into that system?  Why are there so many charges and hands in the government purse just to get you a simple ultrasound to read?  Go to a building with the ultrasound and get it with the tech...email it to the GP doctor.  Not that hard!  No wonder medical is so expensive!  And why does a 50+ year old+ technology machine cost $125k?  Such a ripoff! 

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1 minute ago, Boise fan said:

Apparently you don't understand capitalism either.  But you're in marketing, so I get that you're confused.

Oh trust me, I understand capitalism. I also understand that you view 1970s Cambodia as a model society. 

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16 hours ago, mugtang said:

Well written piece on Vox about how all these democratic socialist proposals can’t be paid for:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-big-idea/2018/8/7/17658574/democratic-socialism-cost-medicare-college-sanders-deficits-taxes

Dude, I heart you.

16 hours ago, SharkTanked said:

And this is where I part ways with the new Democrats. We have all the socialism we can't afford already. This country is simply not equipped to handle the strain of all they want to do.

It sucks being socially liberal and fiscally conservative today.

No kidding. And it's all social welfare, not investment. It's one thing to say "we want to spend more money on x housing and infrastructure and research projects so that in 30 years we have xx% less people even needing assistance/so this whole area gets the economic benefit of these policies". It's another thing to say "we want to spend xxx more on welfare with no plan to ever get anyone off of it ever". 

4 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

You hit the nail on the head. The Libertarian Party has tried to fill the gap for those who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative, it's the most under-represented group in America. It's too bad Gary Johnson fell off the rails in 2016 because there was so much opportunity. 

Unfortunately they have a bit of a branding problem. I can't tell you how many bozos on facebook claim they are libertarian, and then after about 3 leading questions from le happycamper they're just typical neocons or trumpers who like the handle. Ok it's only probably about 4-5 guys but that feels like a lot. 

3 hours ago, NMpackalum said:

You really are clueless. Do you think my employees work for free? They average about $20 per hour plus health insurance, 401k match. Or that I don’t pay for insurance both health commercial and liability? Or I get free rent and utilities. Or business taxes. Or pay for supplies. Lease payments for my $125,000 ultrasound machine or my $50,000 dollar a year subscription for mandated electronic medical record system after initial capital costs. Do you really think I should work 52 weeks a year? Do you really think I get compensated for all 60+ hours per week that I work. My overhead to run my office is $50,000 per month per physician. Is there another highly educated professional where you can get a consultation for $63 dollars that you would trust? I don’t really care if people like you feel sorry for me. Most doctors know they make good money, but we work our asses off to get it. You pontificate about things you really have no clue about.

You can get a nice half hour of work for that fee (for our middle engineer, not our principal). Of course that doesn't include setting up the job, which is billable, or small talk upon entering, or reviewing the client's plans. Overall you may be able to get 4/5 of a beam sized. Good luck with that

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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9 hours ago, Boise fan said:

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If you include prescription drugs and medical equipment as well as clinic, and other care (outpatient surgery,etc.), it sure as hell is a gold rush.  US healthcare is three or more times as expensive and isn't a leader in care or customer satisfaction. It is the monetization of people's health.   I've seen the charges.  It's a freaking gold rush.  Pigs at the trough. 

 

The Tool has never been to Canada.  Doesn't stop him thinking he's some expert on their system though.  Lulz.  I wonder if he's ever left America. Based on his postings, I'd say no.

We are subsidizing cost for drugs for the entire world.  

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5 hours ago, Akkula said:

Yep, we are never going to have a solvent medical system until we get provider costs under control.   We are bankrupting ourselves just fine with our current system by spending so much more than other countries spend on healthcare as a percentage of our GDP.  If we don't tackle runaway price increases we are toast.  The problem with a lot of these analysis is they assume zero changes to bring down costs and they just assume we continue writing a blank check for medical. 

LOL.  You ran that shitshow of a story by us last week and it didn't fly then.  What makes you think it will now?

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5 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

You hit the nail on the head. The Libertarian Party has tried to fill the gap for those who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative, it's the most under-represented group in America. It's too bad Gary Johnson fell off the rails in 2016 because there was so much opportunity. 

I wish the Libertarians would run someone who could be accepted more by the mainstream and really splinter the 2 major parties and leave them to the outliers and extremists.

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17 hours ago, mugtang said:

The new Democrats are going to pull the Democratic Party further to the left.  The Republicans will counter by going further to the right.  Those of us in the middle are going to be stuck footing the bill thinking WTF happened. 

 

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https://youtu.be/YlyXZG2dupo

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1 hour ago, Akkula said:

But don't you see?  Why is there so much "fat" built into that system?  Why are there so many charges and hands in the government purse just to get you a simple ultrasound to read?  Go to a building with the ultrasound and get it with the tech...email it to the GP doctor.  Not that hard!  No wonder medical is so expensive!  And why does a 50+ year old+ technology machine cost $125k?  Such a ripoff! 

Cause the people want it and demand it

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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3 hours ago, Akkula said:

4 of those per hour for 40 hours per week for 52 weeks is over $500k per year.  I am not really feeling bad about Medicare reimbursement rates. 

LOL, you really are the dumbest dude on the board.  Why do you opine on things you have no idea about?  You could barely keep an office open with Medicare and Medicaid "reimbursement".  You have no idea the cost of running a medical office.

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1 hour ago, NMpackalum said:

More cluelessness. I have an ultrasound in my office because the alternative for the patient is to spend 4 hours in the ER to get a 10 minute sonogram, wait another 2 hours for the radiologist to make the read and be billed $1500 for the the privilege and be discharged to call your doctor in the morning. Or she can call me for her bleeding and cramping and she can swing in for an ultrasound in an hour and I can tell her she’s not miscarrying. I’ll charge a limited ultrasound for $250, get reimbursed $120 for a net profit of $20. She goes home reassured that the pregnancy is fine instead of waiting a day or two frantic about her baby. 

More bullshit from you, Physician owned hospitals make up 96 of the top 100 hospitals based on CMS criteria for quality and cost. You would rather trust corporations profit motive or government efficiency over the moral hazard of physicians with a financial stake. Clearly you care about politics over results, speculation over reality.

Come on, man.  Don't smack down the idiot with logic.

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1 hour ago, Boise fan said:

Funny enough if you actually look at the amount billed and the "discounts" (or "welfare" according to master businessman Tools - :rotflmfao:) applied to basic services, a doctor's visit is often in the $60-90 range. 

Love that they bill $165 or more.   And the average time spent with a patient?  10 minutes.  That's nearly $1000 an hour!  And yet because of those dreaded insurance companies, the poor impoverished bastards doctors are, have to take less.  And the poor bloody patient?  Usually spends more than an hour at an appointment.  Most of it waiting. 

 How do doctors survive in other countries?  The horrors they must face because they can't bill "pull-it-outta-my-ass" pricing!  The horror!   The horror!

  

It wouldn't be that way if the government wasn't involved in health care.  Companies would compete, prices would decrease.  Billed vs %paid is a direct result of government involvement.

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6 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

Come on, man.  Don't smack down the idiot with logic.

I like it. It's like he exists for others to point out the flaws in his own argument

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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One thing is clear, to move toward a single payer or medicare for all system would require a national and global paradigm shift.  We could not just snap our fingers and do "medicare for all" without entire systemic changes in several arenas.   

 

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Just now, toonkee said:

One thing is clear, to move toward a single payer or medicare for all system would require a national and global paradigm shift.  We could not just snap our fingers and do "medicare for all" without entire systemic changes in several arenas.   

 

The government would have to start actually owning some hospitals and clinics, as a way to administer the care. 

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9 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

The government would have to start actually owning some hospitals and clinics, as a way to administer the care. 

They do already. It’s called the VA and they’re shit. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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