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mugtang

Democratic Socialism - No way to pay for it

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Well written piece on Vox about how all these democratic socialist proposals can’t be paid for:

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Total cost: $42.5 trillion in new proposals over the next decade, on top of the $12.4 trillion baseline deficit.

To put this in perspective, Washington is currently projected to collect $44 trillion in revenues over the next decade. And the Republican tax cut, decried universally by Democrats as irresponsible (and by Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi as “Armageddon”) will cost less than $2 trillion over the decade.

The 30-year projected tab for these programs is even more staggering: new proposals costing $218 trillion, on top of an $84 trillion baseline deficit driven by Social Security, Medicare, and the resulting interest costs.

 

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According to the left’s own sources, democratic socialism will cost $42.5 trillion in its first decade. How would the US pay for it?

Under the most generous assumptions possible, liberal proposals would cut $8.5 trillion on the spending side. To begin with, state governments no longer burdened with health care costs would save $4.1 trillion, according to the Urban Institute. The popular leftist goal of slashing defense spending down to Europe’s target of 2 percent of GDP, for which there is no plausible blueprint, would nonetheless save $1.9 trillion if achieved, according to CBO data. Charitably assuming that the jobs guarantee would reduce antipoverty spending by one-quarter would save $2.5 trillion.

Paying for the remaining $34 trillion would require nearly doubling federal tax revenues. Let’s examine three paths using data from CBO’s menu of budget savings:

What about just taxing corporations and rich families? Raising the final $34 trillion would require seizing roughly 100 percent of all corporate profits as well as 100 percent of all family wage income and pass-through business income above the thresholds of $90,000 (single) or $150,000 (married), and absurdly assuming they all continue working. (This calculation refers to individual income, not investment income.)

How about a European-style value-added tax (VAT), which is basically a national sales tax? A rate of 87 percent would be needed to collect $34 trillion under the American tax base.

What about payroll taxes? Lawmakers would need to create a new 37 percent payroll tax, on top of the existing 15.3 percent payroll tax, in order to collect $34 trillion.

And the taxes do not stop there. There is still that aforementioned baseline budget deficit of $12.4 trillion over the decade, and $84 trillion over 30 years (driven almost exclusively by growing Social Security and Medicare shortfalls). It is not sustainable to allow budget deficits to swell to nearly 10 percent of GDP during peace and prosperity. So tack on an additional across-the-board income tax hike of 15 percentage points just to pay for the growing costs of our current federal programs.

Mix and match these tax policies and it still represents an unfathomable and impossible tax burden. American taxes would be higher than most of Europe because its spending levels would also be higher. (Our health care system would still cost more, and Europe does not have an expensive government job guarantee.)

Taxing the rich is not enough. America would need to match, or even surpass, Europe’s enormous tax burden on the middle class. There is no evidence that American voters will accept this level of taxation.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-big-idea/2018/8/7/17658574/democratic-socialism-cost-medicare-college-sanders-deficits-taxes

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And this is where I part ways with the new Democrats. We have all the socialism we can't afford already. This country is simply not equipped to handle the strain of all they want to do.

It sucks being socially liberal and fiscally conservative today.

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6 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

And this is where I part ways with the new Democrats. We have all the socialism we can't afford already. This country is simply not equipped to handle the strain of all they want to do.

It sucks being socially liberal and fiscally conservative today.

The new Democrats are going to pull the Democratic Party further to the left.  The Republicans will counter by going further to the right.  Those of us in the middle are going to be stuck footing the bill thinking WTF happened. 

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14 minutes ago, mugtang said:

The new Democrats are going to pull the Democratic Party further to the left.  The Republicans will counter by going further to the right.  Those of us in the middle are going to be stuck footing the bill thinking WTF happened. 

We are already there. 

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1 hour ago, mugtang said:

Well written piece on Vox about how all these democratic socialist proposals can’t be paid for:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-big-idea/2018/8/7/17658574/democratic-socialism-cost-medicare-college-sanders-deficits-taxes

 

Guess what real reality is.  You institute that Vat tax or an income tax to raise those dollars.  The effect would be a massive decline in economic activity.  So even those ridiculous tax increases wouldn't come close to raising the income you would need.

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Why do people think we can afford this stuff when we're already 20 trillion in debt?

Where do they think the money is going to come from?  

It's like people have no perspective on what this costs or what it would do to our economy.

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Maybe if they give the top  bracket another tax cut we will be able to afford it.

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2 minutes ago, Mano said:

Maybe if they give the top  bracket another tax cut we will be able to afford it.

We could take all their money and couldn't afford year one.

What are you going to do for year two?

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We have like 100 trillion of unfunded liabilities for future generations.  Do people not realize this stuff or am I just spitting in the wind?

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14 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

We have like 100 trillion of unfunded liabilities for future generations.  Do people not realize this stuff or am I just spitting in the wind?

 

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I'd argue the runaway gold rush that is the medical industry has helped to phuck up the US.  I see more new hospitals, clinics, etc. being built than banks now. It's insane.  They wouldn't be doing it if they weren't anticipating phat profits. 

Says a lot about the morality of the US that healthcare has been so grossly monetized.

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

We have like 100 trillion of unfunded liabilities for future generations.  Do people not realize this stuff or am I just spitting in the wind?

 "Look here, buster. We're not even close to having enough pretend money to pay for the stuff we got going on now.  What makes you think we can just get more stuff with more pretend money we don't have?  What are you stupid or something?"

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Guys, you just have to get creative with your cost saving techniques. Like, instead of caring for a sick person, just offer to help kill him! Think of all the morality we’d save.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/chronically-ill-man-releases-audio-of-hospital-staff-offering-assisted-death-1.4038841

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2 hours ago, Boise fan said:

I'd argue the runaway gold rush that is the medical industry has helped to phuck up the US.  I see more new hospitals, clinics, etc. being built than banks now. It's insane.  They wouldn't be doing it if they weren't anticipating phat profits. 

Says a lot about the morality of the US that healthcare has been so grossly monetized.

 

 

 

 

 

Shirley, you cant be serious.

the reason you see so many medical palaces isnt capitalism or monetization of the healthcare industry.

Ill let you try to figure it out, but ill give you a hint.  Its the same reason you see $1500 von duprin panic bars on public works and $200 taiwanese panic bars on private works.  

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3 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Guys, you just have to get creative with your cost saving techniques. Like, instead of caring for a sick person, just offer to help kill him! Think of all the morality we’d save.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/chronically-ill-man-releases-audio-of-hospital-staff-offering-assisted-death-1.4038841

That is basically what socialized medicine in Canada, England, and around the world does.   When you ration tests, you delay treatment and kill all those patients before they ever become expensive.

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1 hour ago, CPslograd said:

Shirley, you cant be serious.

the reason you see so many medical palaces isnt capitalism or monetization of the healthcare industry.

Ill let you try to figure it out, but ill give you a hint.  Its the same reason you see $1500 von duprin panic bars on public works and $200 taiwanese panic bars on private works.  

e95sJkv.gif

If you include prescription drugs and medical equipment as well as clinic, and other care (outpatient surgery,etc.), it sure as hell is a gold rush.  US healthcare is three or more times as expensive and isn't a leader in care or customer satisfaction. It is the monetization of people's health.   I've seen the charges.  It's a freaking gold rush.  Pigs at the trough. 

 

The Tool has never been to Canada.  Doesn't stop him thinking he's some expert on their system though.  Lulz.  I wonder if he's ever left America. Based on his postings, I'd say no.

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Just now, Boise fan said:

e95sJkv.gif

If you include prescription drugs and medical equipment as well as clinic, and other care (outpatient surgery,etc.), it sure as hell is a gold rush.  US healthcare is three or more times as expensive and isn't a leader in care or customer satisfaction. It is the monetization of people's health.   I've seen the charges.  It's a freaking gold rush.  Pigs at the trough. 

Its nice that U.S. healthcare gives all that welfare to other countries in the form of cheap pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

 

I think it is about time they pay their fair share.   

 

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2 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

Its nice that U.S. healthcare gives all that welfare to other countries in the form of cheap pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

 

I think it is about time they pay their fair share.   

 

You don't know what welfare is. 

Market economy.  Large businesses (or countries) may negotiate better rates than small businesses.  Because of things like volume. 

You'd think a self-professed Wall Street Cable Investing Aboriginal (1/250th) fire-fighting, emt-ing politician slum-lord BSU football scholie kingpin of Dumphuck Nevada would know that.

:hmmm:

Guess not.

 

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42 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

You don't know what welfare is. 

Market economy.  Large businesses (or countries) may negotiate better rates than small businesses.  Because of things like volume. 

You'd think a self-professed Wall Street Cable Investing Aboriginal (1/250th) fire-fighting, emt-ing politician slum-lord BSU football scholie kingpin of Dumphuck Nevada would know that.

:hmmm:

Guess not.

 

Don't forget bug spray technician

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