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wolfpack1

MA SC: Drug Users Can be Jailed for Relapsing

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We need to stop treating addiction as a crime and instead treat it as the disease it is. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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Take their kids away, too.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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3 minutes ago, mugtang said:

We need to stop treating addiction as a crime and instead treat it as the disease it is. 

Agree, but we need to FUND the treatment. 

No city or state's current budget and facilities available for treatment is up to the level needed to actually treat the problem, so what happens when the facilities for treatment are all full?

Usually, they either jail addicts, or street them to abuse more- neither of which has any chance of breaking the addiction cycle.

HUGE problem.

 

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6 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

Take their kids away, too.

The State already does at some point.

I have several neighbors in their 60s and 70s who are raising their grandkids, because Mom and/or Dad is an addict bouncing in and out of jail and/or treatment for opioids or meth.

Sad situation.

 

Of course, you were probably joking, referring to immigration enforcement, but it isn't very funny.

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3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

The State already does at some point.

I have several neighbors in their 60s and 70s who are raising their grandkids, because Mom and/or Dad is an addict bouncing in and out of jail and/or treatment for opioids or meth.

Sad situation.

 

Of course, you were probably joking, referring to immigration enforcement, but it isn't very funny.

unlike some people on here, i'm not a fan of the state forcefully tearing apart families in any situation. I've been pretty consistent on that point for years and years. so save your performative hand-wringing for someone who thinks your shtick has any actual value on this site. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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2 hours ago, wolfpack1 said:

Umm.....did I miss something? Not to be insensitive but is this supposed to be surprising or objectionable? I know Washoe County has had an effective "drug court" program for many years.  Keeps users out of jail but certainly comes with lots of drug testing and a mandate to stay clean.

https://www.washoecourts.com/Historical/1951/Breen

"In July of 1995, the Second Judicial District Court established a felony adult drug court over which Breen presided. The drug court movement was instituted in Dade County, Florida in 1989 and has been described as the most significant innovation of the American Judiciary in the last 75 years. Starting in July of 1995 with four people, the movement in the Second Judicial District has grown to include drug court, diversion court, mental health court, felony DUI court, veterans' court, and prison re-entry court. The minimum supervision requirements of the Court vary from one to three years.

By requiring frequent court appearances and an extensive program of recovery, most offenders successfully complete program. Furthermore, they avoid further contact with the criminal justice system, obtain employment, and lead successful lives. Thousands of Nevada citizens, usually between the ages of 18 and 45, have avoided prison and have successfully dealt with these devastating issues."

2 hours ago, mugtang said:

We need to stop treating addiction as a crime and instead treat it as the disease it is. 

 

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I don't believe in "crimes against society," but drug use becomes a problem when the addict begins victimizing other people, like stealing from their neighbor, or robbing people to fund their habit. It's also horrible to see what they put their children through when the addiction is all they care about.

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5 hours ago, mugtang said:

We need to stop treating addiction as a crime and instead treat it as the disease it is. 

Yeah, but the addict still has the responsibly to get clean.

Once they are in the system, either for drugs, a DUI, or both, they are often ordered by a court to be tested for drugs and/or alcohol for sometimes, a lengthy time period. If they test dirty, they get what's called an Order to Show Cause, which is a hearing before a judge to explain the positive test.  At that point, the judge has to do something.  That something can range from just an increase in testing frequency and a warning, right up to jail time. Other options include rehab, or house arrest.

It's really up to the addict.  If they don't want to get better, they won't. If that's the case, they will have another positive test or not show up for a test.  At that point, the judge doesn't have a lot of options, especially if he or she even suspects the offender may be getting behind the wheel.

How would you like to be the judge who didn't put a repeat offender in jail and that guy plows into a car full of kids? It happens way too often. And there aren't many places you can put an addict whom you have reason to believe may present a danger to society or himself. Sometimes jail is the only real option.

Whether or not you think it's fair, if you're ordered by a court not to do drugs/alcohol, and you do, you have committed a crime and you will face the consequences.

 

 

"Don't underestimate Joe Biden's ability to F@*k things up."

Barack Obama

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2 minutes ago, SJSUMFA2013 said:

Mug with the WOKE takes today 

Mug is woke AF

 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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Many people across the nation was watching this case because it had a possibility of changing sentences across the nation since many sentences when on probabtion, including DUI, have these clauses about no drinking or taking drugs while on probation. 

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2 minutes ago, wolfpack1 said:

Many people across the nation was watching this case because it had a possibility of changing sentences across the nation since many sentences when on probabtion, including DUI, have these clauses about no drinking or taking drugs while on probation. 

Yeah, but probation's have carried stipulations like this forever, why is this just coming up now? I don't get it.

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21 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

unlike some people on here, i'm not a fan of the state forcefully tearing apart families in any situation. I've been pretty consistent on that point for years and years. so save your performative hand-wringing for someone who thinks your shtick has any actual value on this site. 

Sorry but if they are in an unsafe situation they should be taken away until that situation is made safe for the child.

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3 minutes ago, wolfpack1 said:

Sorry but if they are in an unsafe situation they should be taken away until that situation is made safe for the child.

You know who would be good at making the determination of what is best and safest for a child? A bureaucrat.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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18 hours ago, renoskier said:

Umm.....did I miss something? Not to be insensitive but is this supposed to be surprising or objectionable? I know Washoe County has had an effective "drug court" program for many years.  Keeps users out of jail but certainly comes with lots of drug testing and a mandate to stay clean.

https://www.washoecourts.com/Historical/1951/Breen

"In July of 1995, the Second Judicial District Court established a felony adult drug court over which Breen presided. The drug court movement was instituted in Dade County, Florida in 1989 and has been described as the most significant innovation of the American Judiciary in the last 75 years. Starting in July of 1995 with four people, the movement in the Second Judicial District has grown to include drug court, diversion court, mental health court, felony DUI court, veterans' court, and prison re-entry court. The minimum supervision requirements of the Court vary from one to three years.

By requiring frequent court appearances and an extensive program of recovery, most offenders successfully complete program. Furthermore, they avoid further contact with the criminal justice system, obtain employment, and lead successful lives. Thousands of Nevada citizens, usually between the ages of 18 and 45, have avoided prison and have successfully dealt with these devastating issues."

 

That is actually what they have put out there. The truth behind the program is pretty much not that which people don't see. They set up the program to where it is almost impossible to not pass it unless you are a real idiotic. There are people that are still in the program for 5 or more years after the offense because they won't follow the probation conditions. There are people who "pass" the program who you know and usually end up back in jail again for the doing the exact same thing they were doing while in the program. 

There are many people though, and will agree with it, that have used the program to change their lives around and I do applaud them for that because they finally took the respondsibility to say I have had enough of this and going to use this as a chance to stay out of prison but also clean myself up. I applaud them for making that decision

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16 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Yeah, but probation's have carried stipulations like this forever, why is this just coming up now? I don't get it.

Because how things have changed? There is a lawsuit going through the courts back east somewhere contended that bails are unconstituational and should not be allowed when arrested unless it is a serious Felony charge. Essentially a catch and release system for anyone that is arrested unless its a serious Felony. 

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21 hours ago, Thomas said:

Agree, but we need to FUND the treatment. 

No city or state's current budget and facilities available for treatment is up to the level needed to actually treat the problem, so what happens when the facilities for treatment are all full?

Usually, they either jail addicts, or street them to abuse more- neither of which has any chance of breaking the addiction cycle.

HUGE problem.

 

Let's stop sending them to prison, decrease funding for prisons, and use the savings to fund treatment programs. We house something like 25% of the world's prison population, and half of them are there for drug related offenses.

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18 hours ago, renoskier said:

Umm.....did I miss something? Not to be insensitive but is this supposed to be surprising or objectionable? I know Washoe County has had an effective "drug court" program for many years.  Keeps users out of jail but certainly comes with lots of drug testing and a mandate to stay clean.

https://www.washoecourts.com/Historical/1951/Breen

"In July of 1995, the Second Judicial District Court established a felony adult drug court over which Breen presided. The drug court movement was instituted in Dade County, Florida in 1989 and has been described as the most significant innovation of the American Judiciary in the last 75 years. Starting in July of 1995 with four people, the movement in the Second Judicial District has grown to include drug court, diversion court, mental health court, felony DUI court, veterans' court, and prison re-entry court. The minimum supervision requirements of the Court vary from one to three years.

By requiring frequent court appearances and an extensive program of recovery, most offenders successfully complete program. Furthermore, they avoid further contact with the criminal justice system, obtain employment, and lead successful lives. Thousands of Nevada citizens, usually between the ages of 18 and 45, have avoided prison and have successfully dealt with these devastating issues."

 

Durham County is in the process of implementing something similar right now. I think we're a year into the program as a trial, and are increasing funding this next year. 

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