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ACLU has documented the abuses of migrant kids

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10 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

This was a politically charged topic long before Trump.  But you’re good at seeing what you want to see.  It’s all Trump!!!

You were wondering why it's so politically charged.  I think the answer is obvious.  You don't start chants in rally after rally and call Mexicans the name he has without escalating the emotions.  He's a master at using the media and using racial tensions to his advantage.  It isn't by accident and the guy knows how to fire up his base.  He's going to be a tough candidate to beat because of the blind loyalty so many have in him.  It truly is unfortunate he is the way he is on race and immigration, but it is what it is.  It's not all Trump, but he's the one literally throwing fuel on the fire today using the bully pulpit.  Maybe tomorrow it will be someone else in the WH doing the same thing.  I certainly hope the next leader has a better understanding of the topic, not to mention the morality to guide him or her in a different direction.  

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1 hour ago, alum93 said:

You were wondering why it's so politically charged.  I think the answer is obvious.  You don't start chants in rally after rally and call Mexicans the name he has without escalating the emotions.  He's a master at using the media and using racial tensions to his advantage.  It isn't by accident and the guy knows how to fire up his base.  He's going to be a tough candidate to beat because of the blind loyalty so many have in him.  It truly is unfortunate he is the way he is on race and immigration, but it is what it is.  It's not all Trump, but he's the one literally throwing fuel on the fire today using the bully pulpit.  Maybe tomorrow it will be someone else in the WH doing the same thing.  I certainly hope the next leader has a better understanding of the topic, not to mention the morality to guide him or her in a different direction.  

I would be willing to bet no matter who is the next president a large segment of the population is going to hate him or her. The country is too divided in ideology for acceptance of an opposing view. Compromise is a thing of the past. 

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1 hour ago, alum93 said:

How many tweets and videos of the president would you like to understand why it's such a politically charged topic.  You have the fan favorite build the wall.  They are infesting are country. Sending rapists and murderers.  Seriously, we could just do a weekly poll of latest tweets ranking how racist does this sound.  Zero tolerance with no plan to deal with the additional separation of kids.  Oh, that last one is phony by the way, per today's latest tweet.  If you are wondering why immigration is this politically charged, it isn't by accident and it's due to a man more concerned with votes than morality.  

But you have to admit, it is not the best and the brightest trying to get into the USA.  These are poor and uneducated people.  We already have natural born Americans that are poor and uneducated.  How many more can the American tax payers take on? 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Broncomare said:

But you have to admit, it is not the best and the brightest trying to get into the USA.  These are poor and uneducated people.  We already have natural born Americans that are poor and uneducated.  How many more can the American tax payers take on? 

Well, the economy is sailing along and has easily absorbed 11+ million "illegals". Just think how well we'd be doing if they were all "on the books" and paying taxes.

I can't help but wonder if the majority of the 11+ million were English speaking Canadians, would the issue be as emotionally charged?

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2 hours ago, pokebball said:

And the non trump supporters immigration policies aren't rooted in emotion?  Is that what you're saying?

Immigration has been highly emotional for decades.

Once again, point proven. 

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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15 minutes ago, Broncomare said:

But you have to admit, it is not the best and the brightest trying to get into the USA.  These are poor and uneducated people.  We already have natural born Americans that are poor and uneducated.  How many more can the American tax payers take on? 

It is absolutely the best and brightest. It's the people with enough entrepreneurial spirit to risk everything and come here.

Immigrants make up disproportionate number of entrepreneurs, business owners, academic standouts. We don't need people who already got their masters in women's studies and who expect a comfortable 75k/year desk job with 30 hours a week so they can afford better than frickin Woodford Reserve. We have that. We need people with the fire to succeed. After a couple generations of winning in the US, of having the American Dream be realized, families lose that fire. We lost that fire. So, we bring in people to keep it burning. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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11 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Agree

That supporters of Trump's immigration policies (especially on this board) regularly suggests opponents are only acting on emotion when in fact their own policies are wholly driven by emotion? And then when there is a simple request that defender's of Trump's immigration policies offer any evidence to the contrary, it is met with basic whataboutism? Cool, I'm glad we agree on things.

Edit: upon your edit, it appears we do agree. THough I think my point still stands.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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2 minutes ago, happycamper said:

It is absolutely the best and brightest. It's the people with enough entrepreneurial spirit to risk everything and come here.

Immigrants make up disproportionate number of entrepreneurs, business owners, academic standouts. We don't need people who already got their masters in women's studies and who expect a comfortable 75k/year desk job with 30 hours a week so they can afford better than frickin Woodford Reserve. We have that. We need people with the fire to succeed. After a couple generations of winning in the US, of having the American Dream be realized, families lose that fire. We lost that fire. So, we bring in people to keep it burning. 

I think the immigrants mostly come from the demographic at both ends of the socioeconomic spectrum.  Both of you are right.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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3 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

That supporters of Trump's immigration policies (especially on this board) regularly suggests opponents are only acting on emotion when in fact their own policies are wholly driven by emotion? And then when there is a simple request that defender's of Trump's immigration policies offer any evidence to the contrary, it is met with basic whataboutism? Cool, I'm glad we agree on things.

Shyt, I thought you were agreeing with me.  You are just as much the showman.  Carry on.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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1 minute ago, pokebball said:

Shyt, I thought you were agreeing with me.  You are just as much the showman.  Carry on.

See my edit after your edit. It's like the Matrix in here or something.

Planning is an exercise of power, and in a modern state much real power is suffused with boredom. The agents of planning are usually boring; the planning process is boring; the implementation of plans is always boring. In a democracy boredom works for bureaucracies and corporations as smell works for skunk. It keeps danger away. Power does not have to be exercised behind the scenes. It can be open. The audience is asleep. The modern world is forged amidst our inattention.

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52 minutes ago, Broncomare said:

But you have to admit, it is not the best and the brightest trying to get into the USA.  These are poor and uneducated people.  We already have natural born Americans that are poor and uneducated.  How many more can the American tax payers take on? 

I would have no way of knowing its not the best and brightest.  Furthermore, i would venture to say the average American with a good work ethic built this country way more than the so called best the last 250 years.  I am certainly not going to judge those fleeing horrific conditions to have a better life for their family.  As far as your last question, i think we can take tens of millions more but have no data to support it.  We need a younger work force to offset the older worker leaving.  They contribute to all segments of our workforce including construction, agriculture, restaurants, etc.  Bring as many as we can that will work for a better life.  Then the next generation will have more opportunities than the parents, and the generation after will have even more.  That's how it works.  If you are natural born and uneducated, there is a fix and it's not easy.  Go get an education. Go to night school.  If you live in a depressed area, start with whatever job you can. Work hard, keep grinding, and keep trying.  Don't blame an immigrant if you were lazy or didn't want to put in the work yourself or didn't get your dream job or are unwilling to relocate to have better opportunities.  When Obama left the unemployment rate was 5%.  It's around 4% now under Trump.  If you want a job, you can get one.  This is the land of opportunity.  Always has been and will be for the foreseeable future.  Immigrants don't take away from that.  They add to it.

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26 minutes ago, alum93 said:

I would have no way of knowing its not the best and brightest.  Furthermore, i would venture to say the average American with a good work ethic built this country way more than the so called best the last 250 years.  I am certainly not going to judge those fleeing horrific conditions to have a better life for their family.  As far as your last question, i think we can take tens of millions more but have no data to support it.  We need a younger work force to offset the older worker leaving.  They contribute to all segments of our workforce including construction, agriculture, restaurants, etc.  Bring as many as we can that will work for a better life.  Then the next generation will have more opportunities than the parents, and the generation after will have even more.  That's how it works.  If you are natural born and uneducated, there is a fix and it's not easy.  Go get an education. Go to night school.  If you live in a depressed area, start with whatever job you can. Work hard, keep grinding, and keep trying.  Don't blame an immigrant if you were lazy or didn't want to put in the work yourself or didn't get your dream job or are unwilling to relocate to have better opportunities.  When Obama left the unemployment rate was 5%.  It's around 4% now.  If you want a job, you can get one.  This is the land of opportunity.  Always has been and will be for the foreseeable future.  Immigrants don't take away from that.  They add to it.

Really, we have the resources to take in everyone that wants to come here?  What about all of the welfare handouts?  What about the fact the illegals can not pay taxes and if they do, they have committed a worse crime - identity theft.  I am not against people coming here to better themselves - but do it the right way and not sneaking across Arizona in the middle of the night.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Broncomare said:

Really, we have the resources to take in everyone that wants to come here?  What about all of the welfare handouts?  What about the fact the illegals can not pay taxes and if they do, they have committed a worse crime - identity theft.  I am not against people coming here to better themselves - but do it the right way and not sneaking across Arizona in the middle of the night.

Ummm......what if they're hungry and need to feed their family now?

That's the major problem with our current system, we're obviously not letting enough folks immigrate and it takes too long for the ones who do.

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Just now, Broncomare said:

Really, we have the resources to take in everyone that wants to come here?  What about all of the welfare handouts?  What about the fact the illegals can not pay taxes and if they do, they have committed a worse crime - identity theft.  I am not against people coming here to better themselves - but do it the right way and not sneaking across Arizona in the middle of the night.

I think if you are fleeing countries like Honduras or El Salvador you aren't worried about doing it the right way.  You are worried about having a chance at a normal life, or any life for that matter.  Same for people from Mexico that only want a better life, but are told you might have a chance if you wait years and years, maybe.  Fix the system.  Let more people in legally.  Let them pay taxes.  Like i said, i am not judging those coming here to try and build a better life.  

 

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1 minute ago, renoskier said:

Well, the economy is sailing along and has easily absorbed 11+ million "illegals". Just think how well we'd be doing if they were all "on the books" and paying taxes.

I can't help but wonder if the majority of the 11+ million were English speaking Canadians, would the issue be as emotionally charged?

You are such a joke. Why don't you stop playing games and come clean. 

Remember back when Democrats were all insistent on keeping Pepe, Jesus and friends from crossing the border because they were trying to protect blue collar jobs from being taken? The Dems had to show their concern for blue collar states with that being a big part of their core support. 

Then one day they realized that they already have blue collar support because of unions. The union heads can keep their guys inline to vote left. So we can go full blown pro illegal or legal immigrant and clean up on all those votes if we woo them with entitlements. Boom! A treasure trove of future votes. The the Dems haven't looked back, since. 

And just like the GOP, the Dems train their supporters what the narrative is and to fully embrace it. All the bullshit about how bringing in a disproportionately large number of poor people into the border states (especially CA) as being a good thing, it's just a big lie. These people will clean up on entitlements. Even if some of them are being taxed on very low wage jobs, it's just a tiny gov revenue stream compared to the huge entitlements they'll receive from the state and federal level. 

So stop the bullshit about how allowing way too many immigrants into the country too quickly is good for America, the middle class and 

Tell it like it is !!!! The people in power want to survive and they do that with votes. The immigration issue is a goldmine of votes that Dems need to win. And with a major culture war goin on, they need to win to appoint liberal judges among other things.

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3 hours ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

The idea that posters you disagree with ideologically are broken, inhumane, evil people that are going to get what is coming to them has been growing more popular lately.

I've always been of the opinion that the first thing you should do when talking politics is classify the person as: nazi or not nazi. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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33 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Ummm......what if they're hungry and need to feed their family now?

That's the major problem with our current system, we're obviously not letting enough folks immigrate and it takes too long for the ones who do.

Based on what data are you saying we aren’t letting enough folks immigrate?  Based on the number of people trying to come here?  I think that’s an irrelevant statistic when we are talking allowing enough people to immigrate here.  We should allow only enough people in to fill the available jobs. During times of economic expansion, like now, those quotas should be increased.  During times of economic contraction those amounts should be decreased. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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4 hours ago, madmartigan said:

Speaking of name calling, why do you keep dodging my Best Buy Parking lot invites, @cosinama. You are such a pussy. 

Oh...Best Buy?!?  I’ve been waiting outside this old Circuit City for 3 months. I will be right there you dick hat. 

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