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4UNLV

MLB in Vegas?

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On 6/8/2018 at 1:15 AM, BleedRebelRed said:

I don't see it.  Las Vegas has great potential as a AAA city, especially with the opening of the 10,000 seat Las Vegas Ballpark out next to the Downtown Summerlin and the Golden Knights practice facility.  That location during summer is typically 8-10 degrees cooler than the downtown location where the current Cashman Field AAA park is (due to the elevation difference between 2000' and 4000' https://www.reviewjournal.com/uncategorized/summerlin-rests-on-higher-ground/).  Also a huge chunk of Clark County's population of 300,000 retired people live within a four mile radius of that location.

Cashman Field is the most outdated ballpark in AAA, and probably the only one that doesn't have on-site exercise facilities for the teams.  The new stadium will be for several years the most advanced in AAA, hopefully attracting the Dodgers or Padres organizations back, or maybe even the Angels.  Right now Las Vegas has the Mets' AAA team, but the Mets bought the Syracuse AAA team and will be moving there.

BallparkGroundbreaking.JPG

Rumor is Oakland is looking at Vegas for their AAA club

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On 6/8/2018 at 9:24 AM, NVGiant said:

MLB would be a bad fit. Vegas lacks the secondary TV markets that would make its regional TV contracts, a huge revenue driver for baseball, particularly lucrative. For comparison, Portland is No. 22 in TV market size. Vegas is No. 42, and would be by far the smallest TV market with baseball.

Edit: Looking at 2017 Nielsen rankings, PDX is No. 25 with 1.14 million TV homes; Vegas No. 40. with 750,000 homes. So Portland’s market is about 50 percent larger.

This would be a hurdle - LV is an isolated population center with a small population within a 150 mile radius for those drive in fans 

Take Kansas City - it's base market isn't much larger than the LV market, but you have Omaha plus Topeka and lot's of little towns & cities in Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska & Iowa to draw from adding to the larger area to draw from 

Then on the other hand, LV draws way more tourists and the VGK showed that visiting fans will buy seats.........and the benefit of baseball is that teams play multiple game series and ticket prices are less costly than NBA, NHL, NFL, so visitors could plan a 3 or 4 day trip when their team visits. 

And contrary to the "Casinos don't like guest to leave their properties" then why does each casino have a golf course or two and also gets tickets to games & events. Don't think for a second that casino's won't buy blocks of season tickets to hand out to high rollers and the like - The MGM & some other casino companies have golf courses that ate an hour's drive away from the strip - they days of casino's holding guest hostage isn't reality anymore as LV has also become a central location for eco-tourism as LV is centrally located to more National Parks that any other major city & major international airport 

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4 hours ago, wolfpack1 said:

Rumor is Oakland is looking at Vegas for their AAA club

LV AAA team (soon to get a whole new image, name, etc) will be getting a new MLB affiliation - D-Backs just signed extension with Reno, so they are off the board.......heard local sports guy say A's could be the team - which means there won't be much difference between the talent in Oakland & Las Vegas.

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3 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

LV AAA team (soon to get a whole new image, name, etc) will be getting a new MLB affiliation - D-Backs just signed extension with Reno, so they are off the board.......heard local sports guy say A's could be the team - which means there won't be much difference between the talent in Oakland & Las Vegas.

Seems like A’s should be in Reno, Dbacks in Vegas

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On 6/8/2018 at 4:11 AM, bluerules009 said:

I would think baseball would work way better than football for Vegas.  With 82 regular season home games that is a whole lot more visitors created than 8 NFL home dates.  I would think the casinos would be drooling over all those sports fans combining a vegas trip with their home teams games.  

The dodgers attracted 3.77 million fans last year.

The Dallas Cowboys didn't even get 800K home attendance.

 

8 NFL games would be easy to sell out with Casinos using game tickets in promotions. Baseball requires a lot of consistent attendance to stay afloat and remain competitive. That would be hard to do with all the other competing things to do. However, I think they could do it, but they'd need to model their franchise closely with Arizona....most notably a stadium that can close up and air condition the place when it's 100 to 110 outside. On a brutal hot day, going to see a ballgame in a nicely controlled environment should be a nice draw.

kat.jpg

 

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29 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

8 NFL games would be easy to sell out with Casinos using game tickets in promotions. Baseball requires a lot of consistent attendance to stay afloat and remain competitive. That would be hard to do with all the other competing things to do. However, I think they could do it, but they'd need to model their franchise closely with Arizona....most notably a stadium that can close up and air condition the place when it's 100 to 110 outside. On a brutal hot day, going to see a ballgame in a nicely controlled environment should be a nice draw.

You don't even understand what you are talking about.  A poorly attended baseball team would bring 3X the customers to the casinos in Las Vegas than the best attended NFL team.  Plus it would bring them to Vegas in the summer which is the down season for Vegas.  Not to mention it is a daytime passtime and would leave the nights free for gambling.   Las Vegas would be exactly 3X a better sport for the casinos than NFL football.

The economics of a baseball team focus on the city and the businesses they support.

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43 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

You don't even understand what you are talking about.  A poorly attended baseball team would bring 3X the customers to the casinos in Las Vegas than the best attended NFL team.  Plus it would bring them to Vegas in the summer which is the down season for Vegas.  Not to mention it is a daytime passtime and would leave the nights free for gambling.   Las Vegas would be exactly 3X a better sport for the casinos than NFL football.

The economics of a baseball team focus on the city and the businesses they support.

This guy gets it. Football teams in general are shitty deals for cities. They require the most expensive stadiums and only fill said stadiums, at the absolute best, for 14 days a year. 

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2 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

You don't even understand what you are talking about.  A poorly attended baseball team would bring 3X the customers to the casinos in Las Vegas than the best attended NFL team.  Plus it would bring them to Vegas in the summer which is the down season for Vegas.  Not to mention it is a daytime passtime and would leave the nights free for gambling.   Las Vegas would be exactly 3X a better sport for the casinos than NFL football.

The economics of a baseball team focus on the city and the businesses they support.

Um, whoever would own the baseball team isn't supposed to have any ownership with any casino's. So the owner isn't going to care about casino's unless there's a big money deal.

Also, you're wrong about Vegas. The busiest month of the year is July. June is the 4th busiest and December is the slowest. 

kat.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

This guy gets it. Football teams in general are shitty deals for cities. They require the most expensive stadiums and only fill said stadiums, at the absolute best, for 14 days a year. 

That's why the owner of the stadium most host more events during the year. If Vegas got a pro Soccer team and if I there would be lots of use. Then you could do some big single events such as a pro supercross dirt bike race, host some big concerts, using the stadium to welcome some big high school football games including the playoffs, big political rallies, etc.

kat.jpg

 

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14 minutes ago, Nevada Convert said:

That's why the owner of the stadium most host more events during the year. If Vegas got a pro Soccer team and if I there would be lots of use. Then you could do some big single events such as a pro supercross dirt bike race, host some big concerts, using the stadium to welcome some big high school football games including the playoffs, big political rallies, etc.

I’m guessing it’s still less events then the 81 guaranteed events that come with a baseball team.

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7 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

I’m guessing it’s still less events then the 81 guaranteed events that come with a baseball team.

I think I read Vegas hopes to have 50 “major” events at its stadium and like 30 other smaller events?? But Vegas is a different animal. It draws 100ks of kids to drop MDMA in heat at a NASCAR venue. I think it will figure out how best to utilize its stadium and mitigate the losses. I agree though, MLB changes cities. I know you can’t decide when a franchise becomes available but I’d go all in to get an MLB franchise. Build a stadium in downtown LV and it has an opportunity to clean up blight that a new casino will only exacerbate. 

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17 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

LV AAA team (soon to get a whole new image, name, etc) will be getting a new MLB affiliation - D-Backs just signed extension with Reno, so they are off the board.......heard local sports guy say A's could be the team - which means there won't be much difference between the talent in Oakland & Las Vegas.

 

14 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Seems like A’s should be in Reno, Dbacks in Vegas

Every time they say "D-Backs" on SportsCenter, I swear I hear "D-Bags".  Why would a fan base give themselves that nickname?

Anyway, I hope the A's do relocate here, which would make geographic sense (they are currently in Nashville).  There are reasonably-priced direct flights between Oakland and LV nearly every 90 minutes, and probably about every 30 minutes between LV and one of the three bay area airports.

One other team I have heard mentioned is Toronto coming back.  Buffalo is a more convenient location for them, but the new facility in LV would probably be enough to draw them back.

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15 hours ago, NVGiant said:

Seems like A’s should be in Reno, Dbacks in Vegas

Proximity would make sense - D-backs original AAA teams was 90 minutes away in Tucson 

Not that a flight from Reno to PHX is that far, but the flight from LV is shorter and there are literally flights every hour 

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1 minute ago, UNLV2001 said:

Proximity would make sense - D-backs original AAA teams was 90 minutes away in Tucson 

Not that a flight from Reno to PHX is that far, but the flight from LV is shorter and there are literally flights every hour 

Tucson is available again, now that the Padres have moved to El Paso.  I would suspect the facilities aren't that great in Tucson though - that's commonly why cities don't have a AAA team.

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6 minutes ago, BleedRebelRed said:

Tucson is available again, now that the Padres have moved to El Paso.  I would suspect the facilities aren't that great in Tucson though - that's commonly why cities don't have a AAA team.

Tucson's ball park is an old relic - they were in the PCL when LV's team first moved from Spokane WA - Think they've done some basic maintenance & a few upgrades, but there have been a lot of new minor league ball parks built since the 1980's - El Paso being one that got them a AAA team 

Here's the PCL in 1983, which was Las Vegas first - Look at the travel for a Pittsburgh Pirate call up ! From Honolulu to Pittsburgh :blink: 

    North Division Aff W L W-L% GB
    Edmonton Trappers CAL 75 67 .528 --
    Portland Beavers PHI 75 67 .528 --
    Salt Lake City Gulls SEA 67 75 .472 8
    Tacoma Tigers OAK 65 77 .458 10
    Vancouver Canadians MIL 60 80 .429 14
    South Division Aff W L W-L% GB
    Albuquerque Dukes LAD 85 58 .594 --
    Las Vegas Stars SDP 83 60 .58 2
    Hawaii Islanders PIT 72 71 .503 13
    Tucson Toros HOU 68 74 .479 16.5
    Phoenix Giants SFG 61 82 .427 24
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    4 hours ago, UNLV2001 said:

    Tucson's ball park is an old relic - they were in the PCL when LV's team first moved from Spokane WA - Think they've done some basic maintenance & a few upgrades, but there have been a lot of new minor league ball parks built since the 1980's - El Paso being one that got them a AAA team 

    Here's the PCL in 1983, which was Las Vegas first - Look at the travel for a Pittsburgh Pirate call up ! From Honolulu to Pittsburgh :blink: 

    North Division Aff W L W-L% GB
    Edmonton Trappers CAL 75 67 .528 --
    Portland Beavers PHI 75 67 .528 --
    Salt Lake City Gulls SEA 67 75 .472 8
    Tacoma Tigers OAK 65 77 .458 10
    Vancouver Canadians MIL 60 80 .429 14
    South Division Aff W L W-L% GB
    Albuquerque Dukes LAD 85 58 .594 --
    Las Vegas Stars SDP 83 60 .58 2
    Hawaii Islanders PIT 72 71 .503 13
    Tucson Toros HOU 68 74 .479 16.5
    Phoenix Giants SFG 61 82 .427 24

    U of A plays there now. 

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    On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:24 AM, NVGiant said:

    MLB would be a bad fit. Vegas lacks the secondary TV markets that would make its regional TV contracts, a huge revenue driver for baseball, particularly lucrative. For comparison, Portland is No. 22 in TV market size. Vegas is No. 42, and would be by far the smallest TV market with baseball.

    Edit: Looking at 2017 Nielsen rankings, PDX is No. 25 with 1.14 million TV homes; Vegas No. 40. with 750,000 homes. So Portland’s market is about 50 percent larger.

    I live in the Portland Metro area... It is not larger than the Las Vegas Market... to look at the Vegas market in regards to eyeballs and tv sets you need to include: North Las Vegas, Henderson, and the other population dense areas of Clark county... If anything the two metro areas are very comparable... With the entire Portland metro area being just over 2 million, similar to Las Vegas.

     

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/las-vegas-population/ 

    Population Vegas metro area is over 2 million...

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/portland-population/

    Population of Portland Metro area is around 2.4 million...

    If anything, I would say Vegas is a bigger market because the Vegas Metro area is much smaller in regards to total geography so the entire population is within the Valley...  For Portland the metro area is considered to stretch much farther south of Portland to the Eugene area where the University of Oregon is which is over 100 miles away from Portland. The Vegas metro area is much more population dense than the Portland Metro area.

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    3 hours ago, RebelSaint702 said:

    I live in the Portland Metro area... It is not larger than the Las Vegas Market... to look at the Vegas market in regards to eyeballs and tv sets you need to include: North Las Vegas, Henderson, and the other population dense areas of Clark county... If anything the two metro areas are very comparable... With the entire Portland metro area being just over 2 million, similar to Las Vegas.

     

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/las-vegas-population/ 

    Population Vegas metro area is over 2 million...

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/portland-population/

    Population of Portland Metro area is around 2.4 million...

    If anything, I would say Vegas is a bigger market because the Vegas Metro area is much smaller in regards to total geography so the entire population is within the Valley...  For Portland the metro area is considered to stretch much farther south of Portland to the Eugene area where the University of Oregon is which is over 100 miles away from Portland. The Vegas metro area is much more population dense than the Portland Metro area.

     I live in Bend and am from Las Vegas so I am plenty familiar with both markets. And we’re not talking about metro populations. Henderson and North Las Vegas would be included in the Nielsen stats, as would Lake Oswego, Beaverton, Vancouver, Gresham, etc.  be included in the Portland stats. The difference between the markets would be secondary markets such as Salem, Eugene, Bend, all of which are their own metro areas, and would add about 900,000 extra in population from just those three. Salem metro (pop. 400k) is included in the Portland TV market, which explains similar populations but Portland being in a 50 percent larger TV market.  Bend, Eugene, and Medford are not included in that Portland market but would be factored into regional TV deals. That’s another 600k in population. As far as TV markets go for a regional sports contract, PDX has a significantly larger potential audience.

    The only way Vegas could have a significant secondary market is to count Reno as part of its market. But for the purposes of regional sports broadcasts, Reno is really part of the Bay Area TV market.

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