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Ten dead in Houston suburb school shooting

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10 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

According to CNN 26 of the 27 deadliest mass shootings in the US were carried out by someone who grew up without a father in the Home. 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markmeckler/2018/02/27-deadliest-mass-shooters-26-one-thing-common/

But I’m sure your right it’s the guns fault. God forbid we look at any other factor in society. 

I don't understand your point. The US isn't the only country with single parent households.

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43 minutes ago, soupslam1 said:

Guns aren’t going away so we had better start addressing the reasons these kids are committing mass shootings and how they can be minimized. 

LOL. Good luck with that.

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2 hours ago, Rebelbacker said:

You’re not responsible for initiating discussion but you can be honest about it. 

Guns aren’t more prevalent now than they were years ago. What has changed is society. More kids are on meds. Social media has changed how they interact and increased disillusionment. There are far more households with no father and a mother working too hard and too much to be able to do the job of two parents. 

Those are all factors that go into this. But instead of being rational about it and actually trying to find a cause you and others like you blame the guns and then demonize responsible gun owners. 

Honestly, I haven't cared enough about inner city violence, but what my brain is aware of is influenced by what the media puts out and the topics that are brought up, just like everyone else's. And I'm not CNN.  I'm just a media consumer like everyone else trying to wade through the psychological warfare we're all bombarded with everyday.  But you're right.  Black lives matter as much as anyone else's and we should spend more time on that topic.

But I absolutely do not and have not, done the things you accused me of that I bolded but I did demonized irresponsible gun owners. I offered some other possible actions we could take as a humble start. And then I said I would accept criticism of those ideas!  I don't know what more I can do.

For the 20th time in this thread, all I've said is that the prevalence and availability of guns plays a part in this. That, coupled with the "human" causes, is the recipe for what we have.     

And do you think phrases like "you and others like you" move the discussion forward, if we're being honest? Sounds like you just want your team to win and I know you hate that kind of thinking.

 

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16 minutes ago, Joe from WY said:

Arguing about shit in these threads is akin to arguing about who is the smartest kid with down's syndrome. 

Speak for yourself! I had no idea gun owners were going to find a cure for ADHD, restore America's broken households, and reverse the negative consequences of social media. Also, something about Chicago.

Where do I sign up????

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34 minutes ago, Fort Fun said:

Speak for yourself! I had no idea gun owners were going to find a cure for ADHD, restore America's broken households, and reverse the negative consequences of social media. Also, something about Chicago.

Where do I sign up????

I know. I've heard the gun grabbers preach the Great Utopia should they all be removed; a veritable panacea to all problems. We need to investigate this further, clearly. 

Until then, back to putting a bucket on my head and running into walls. 

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1 hour ago, toonkee said:

Honestly, I haven't cared enough about inner city violence, but what my brain is aware of is influenced by what the media puts out and the topics that are brought up, just like everyone else's. And I'm not CNN.  I'm just a media consumer like everyone else trying to wade through the psychological warfare we're all bombarded with everyday.  But you're right.  Black lives matter as much as anyone else's and we should spend more time on that topic.

But I absolutely do not and have not, done the things you accused me of that I bolded but I did demonized irresponsible gun owners. I offered some other possible actions we could take as a humble start. And then I said I would accept criticism of those ideas!  I don't know what more I can do.

For the 20th time in this thread, all I've said is that the prevalence and availability of guns plays a part in this. That, coupled with the "human" causes, is the recipe for what we have.     

And do you think phrases like "you and others like you" move the discussion forward, if we're being honest? Sounds like you just want your team to win and I know you hate that kind of thinking.

 

I agree that guns and their prevalence play a part in this. I have doubts that more gun regulations are going to have much impact. Some of the regulations on the books aren’t enforced now. Reduction of the number of guns also does not appear practical. Too many people that own guns will never give them up without a fight. And that’s not just rhetoric.  A money offer may persuade some to give them up. By the way, Im not a gun owner. I would be if I lived in some cities in this country.

What bothers me most about the whole situation is the loss of young lives and what is causing some young people to go over the edge and commit these mass murders? This didn’t happen decades ago although there was just as much violence.  As I have aged, in general, I am discouraged to see a lot less respect for authority and for each other in society and a lot of kids with no sense of meaning in their lives. I can’t help but think that plays a part in these shootings.

 

 

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9 hours ago, mysfit said:

The overwhelming number of mass killers are men. Despite women suffering from mental illness with more frequency than men.

 

Behavior, emotional and social health combined with culture is more determinative than "mental health'. 

News flash, men and women think differently.

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9 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

News flash, men and women think differently.

And act differently. Men are more physically aggressive in confronting an adversary. Women are a lot sneakier and treacherous and back stab their enemies into submission.

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3 hours ago, toonkee said:

Honestly, I haven't cared enough about inner city violence, but what my brain is aware of is influenced by what the media puts out and the topics that are brought up, just like everyone else's. And I'm not CNN.  I'm just a media consumer like everyone else trying to wade through the psychological warfare we're all bombarded with everyday.  But you're right.  Black lives matter as much as anyone else's and we should spend more time on that topic.

But I absolutely do not and have not, done the things you accused me of that I bolded but I did demonized irresponsible gun owners. I offered some other possible actions we could take as a humble start. And then I said I would accept criticism of those ideas!  I don't know what more I can do.

For the 20th time in this thread, all I've said is that the prevalence and availability of guns plays a part in this. That, coupled with the "human" causes, is the recipe for what we have.     

And do you think phrases like "you and others like you" move the discussion forward, if we're being honest? Sounds like you just want your team to win and I know you hate that kind of thinking.

 

Fair enough. I took you as putting some of the blame on responsible gun owners. If I was mistaken, my bad. 

As for your team comment my team is responsible gun owners. As one of those, I'm not prepared to give up my rights for other people to feel better and not have any real results. I'm cool with studies on gun violence. I'm for hardening schools. I'm for actually treating mental health seriously and getting people help. I'm for less drugs and more treatment facilities. There are plenty of things we could do if we really want to help lessen the risk of these shootings.

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9 hours ago, Rebelbacker said:

Fair enough. I took you as putting some of the blame on responsible gun owners. If I was mistaken, my bad. 

As for your team comment my team is responsible gun owners. As one of those, I'm not prepared to give up my rights for other people to feel better and not have any real results. I'm cool with studies on gun violence. I'm for hardening schools. I'm for actually treating mental health seriously and getting people help. I'm for less drugs and more treatment facilities. There are plenty of things we could do if we really want to help lessen the risk of these shootings.

Just out of curiosity,  as we have watched mass shooting after mass shooting in our schools the last 20 years,  what rights exactly have you been asked to give up as a gun owner in that time frame?  And please inform me if i am completely ignorant, because i keep hearing this paranoia about the government taking our guns.  So please clarify, or anyone else that shares said paranoia, what rights have you given up?  

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2 hours ago, alum93 said:

Just out of curiosity,  as we have watched mass shooting after mass shooting in our schools the last 20 years,  what rights exactly have you been asked to give up as a gun owner in that time frame?  And please inform me if i am completely ignorant, because i keep hearing this paranoia about the government taking our guns.  So please clarify, or anyone else that shares said paranoia, what rights have you given up?  

I’ve read that Reagan is credited with being the toughest on guns. And ironically his legislation while gov of Cali — was in response to Black Panther protestors opening carrying. 

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2 minutes ago, NevadaFan said:

I’ve read that Reagan is credited with being the toughest on guns. And ironically his legislation while gov of Cali — was in response to Black Panther protestors opening carrying. 

That wasn't the question.  It's an open question about people that write about giving up rights.  What exactly have they give up in the last 2 decades while all these school mass shooting have continued.

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2 hours ago, alum93 said:

Just out of curiosity,  as we have watched mass shooting after mass shooting in our schools the last 20 years,  what rights exactly have you been asked to give up as a gun owner in that time frame?  And please inform me if i am completely ignorant, because i keep hearing this paranoia about the government taking our guns.  So please clarify, or anyone else that shares said paranoia, what rights have you given up?  

You're asking the wrong question. 

It's not about the rights I've had to give up as a gun owner. It's about the rights I'm not prepared to lose. 

g1.jpg

 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/h8n9gvrqyj/econTabReport.pdf

This is a poll done by YouGov in February 2018 asking if people were in favor of banning semi-automatic weapons. That question includes all semi-auto weapons including handguns. So 82% of dems want to ban all semi-auto weapons including handguns. More and more people on the left are being honest and saying they want a repeal of the 2A. But you think gun owners are paranoid that the left would like to restrict or ban gun ownership. Ok. 

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1 hour ago, Rebelbacker said:

You're asking the wrong question. 

It's not about the rights I've had to give up as a gun owner. It's about the rights I'm not prepared to lose. 

g1.jpg

 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/h8n9gvrqyj/econTabReport.pdf

This is a poll done by YouGov in February 2018 asking if people were in favor of banning semi-automatic weapons. That question includes all semi-auto weapons including handguns. So 82% of dems want to ban all semi-auto weapons including handguns. More and more people on the left are being honest and saying they want a repeal of the 2A. But you think gun owners are paranoid that the left would like to restrict or ban gun ownership. Ok. 

To respond to your last statement,  yes i think gun owners are being paranoid and have been for decades.

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2 minutes ago, alum93 said:

To respond to your last statement,  yes i think gun owners are being paranoid and have been for decades.

So I just show you a recent poll saying over 80% of dems want to eliminate semi-auto firearms and you think gun owners are paranoid? Wow.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

So I just show you a recent poll saying over 80% of dems want to eliminate semi-auto firearms and you think gun owners are paranoid? Wow.

 

 

You think you can google some random poll and that justifies inaction to try and tackle this problem.  Try again.  If democrats really wanted to take all your guns (newsflash - they don't), they would have done something when they had the House, Senate, and presidency.  Kind of like when they pushed through health care.  But they didn't.  Your post of a poll just proves my point.  There are millions and millions of voters just like you who are paranoid and vote accordingly.  And because of that we will most likely never see Republicans vote against the NRA on anything with real impact, and more likely, never really try and tackle schools shootings by actually looking at guns.  Note,  i am NOT, capitalize letters, NOT saying you are responsible for schools shooting.  No one on this board is.  Get that thru everyone's heads when we try and civilly discuss these tragedies.  What i am saying is the paranoia of gun owners and their voting ensures we will most likely never even attempt to get rid of any type of weapon like the AR-15.  Somehow, someway, all guns are the same, all serve a valuable function in our society, and we can never ever give in, not one single inch.  Heck, you have to give credit where credit is do.  If there is one thing politicians love above all else, it's having a job.  And they will follow orders of the people.  So, we are stuck with what we have today for better or worse, like a marriage.

So assuming guns are officially off the table in terms of any reform at all, we have to hopefully look at all other options to try and prevent future strategies.  Maybe down the line, years or decades, with a completely new group of politicians and a generation of kids growing up with school shootings are voting, our mentality will start to allow some type of problem solving that does look at certain types of weapons.  Certainly that isn't going to happen anytime soon though.

For the record, i agree that there is no one cause.  We need to look at bullying, better teachers, effect of drugs to treat depression, breakdown of families, violent video games, internet and social media impact on young developing minds, you name it, i just happen to believe that list also includes gun control.  We should not just pick one side and defend our views, but be open to new solutions and ways of looking at things.  Other developed countries are not having this issue, not at this rate.  Why here and what can we do as a society to save more children from these tragedies?   That should be the goal.  And that discussion absolutely must involve input from responsible gun owners.  Why aren't Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, Japan, Australia having anywhere near the same rates of school shootings?

Lastly, i grew up around guns.  Grew up around hunters.  I don't have some ingrained hate for guns.  I just don't understand the mentality to not give an inch of compromise on any proposal.  It baffles me quite frankly.

 

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