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Political speech on college campuses

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Two very nuanced, spot-on pieces of journalism dealing with speech on college campuses. I doubt that many on here will take the time and energy to actually read and listen all the way through and consider the finer points of this issue. 

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/645/my-effing-first-amendment

http://reason.com/blog/2018/05/14/the-intellectual-dark-web-and-its-hereti

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The second article is definitely not spot on. It’s as nuanced as a mwcboard straw man take down.

I’ll check out the podcast later, though.

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2 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

The second article is definitely not spot on. It’s as nuanced as a mwcboard straw man take down.

I’ll check out the podcast later, though.

Lol. Way to prove her point.

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1 hour ago, smltwnrckr said:

Lol. Way to prove her point.

Nah, but i’ll check the podcast out anyway.

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4 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

The second article is definitely not spot on. It’s as nuanced as a mwcboard straw man take down.

I’ll check out the podcast later, though.

The "red meat" for IDW fans is undeniably tales of liberal lunacy and P.C. culture run amok.

 

that isn't spot on?

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6 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

The second article is definitely not spot on. It’s as nuanced as a mwcboard straw man take down.

I’ll check out the podcast later, though.

I read the whole thing.  All it did was bore me.  What am I not getting?  I dont understand why spartan with no vowels likes it, or why you think its a strawman.  It just makes me sleepy.

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10 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

Two very nuanced, spot-on pieces of journalism dealing with speech on college campuses. I doubt that many on here will take the time and energy to actually read and listen all the way through and consider the finer points of this issue. 

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/645/my-effing-first-amendment

http://reason.com/blog/2018/05/14/the-intellectual-dark-web-and-its-hereti

The This American Life episode was really interesting. Listened to it this weekend. Really shows how each side works to stifle free speech, and how hypocritical the anti-PC movement can be. The one thing I can’t get out of my mind is the professor’s offer to talk with the protesting student about the issues in private and how the student never followed up. Was the young student ever interested in dialogue? Probably not. Just a bunch of people looking for scalps rather than engaging in a real debate.

I’ll read the Reason piece. Thanks for posting.

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5 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Nah, but i’ll check the podcast out anyway.

"The only way to produce lasting change is to use less shock and shame, more showing people on their terms why yourway forward can help. It requires the empathy that allows for projecting the best intentions on your enemies, the patience to actually strive for common ground or conversion instead of simply writing people off as hopeless dummies, the ability to shed your ego enough not to need to "own" those who disagree with you, and the confidence to call out any entity—especially among one's "side" or allies—that stands athwart your version of good."

you should read more so you can get good at it.

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14 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

 The one thing I can’t get out of my mind is the professor’s offer to talk with the protesting student about the issues in private and how the student never followed up. Was the young student ever interested in dialogue? Probably not. Just a bunch of people looking for scalps rather than engaging in a real debate.

But what interest would she have in following up and actually engaging in dialogue when she can be a pseudo celebrity in conservative media circles at the expense of her own campus community? I think that 15 years ago, that girl would have been more likely to take that professor up on her offer.

The notion that all politics is local, in cases like these, is flipped upside down. It's now all defined by some cheap form of national "discourse." It's very frustrating for people who actually care about free speech.

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2 hours ago, CPslograd said:

I read the whole thing.  All it did was bore me.  What am I not getting?  I dont understand why spartan with no vowels likes it, or why you think its a strawman.  It just makes me sleepy.

I like it because it does a good job of encapsulating the frustration that people who actually care about free speech on campus have with conservatives who claim to be free-speech warriors but engage mostly in drive-by trolling. Its nuance comes at least partially from the fact that it was written by Reason, which almost exclusively takes the libertarian, free speech position and suggests (perhaps rightfully) that currently that position is most threatened by liberal/progressive students.

 

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28 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

"The only way to produce lasting change is to use less shock and shame, more showing people on their terms why yourway forward can help. It requires the empathy that allows for projecting the best intentions on your enemies, the patience to actually strive for common ground or conversion instead of simply writing people off as hopeless dummies, the ability to shed your ego enough not to need to "own" those who disagree with you, and the confidence to call out any entity—especially among one's "side" or allies—that stands athwart your version of good."

you should read more so you can get good at it.

You should read up more, then you’d how foolish that paragraph is in this regard. You’d know that these people aren’t posing as aggrieved victims, despite being threatened and in a few cases having been forced out of their positions. What the hell do you think they’re doing but trying to talk people? The Weinstein’s and Heyer and Haidt and Peterson and Harris are not the Turning Points USA crowd.

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5 hours ago, happycamper said:

The "red meat" for IDW fans is undeniably tales of liberal lunacy and P.C. culture run amok.

 

that isn't spot on?

Do you always use one line of a thousand plus word essay, that may or may not be true, to determine whether it hits the mark in general?

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2 hours ago, CPslograd said:

I read the whole thing.  All it did was bore me.  What am I not getting?  I dont understand why spartan with no vowels likes it, or why you think its a strawman.  It just makes me sleepy.

Be bored.

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19 minutes ago, smltwnrckr said:

I like it because it does a good job of encapsulating the frustration that people who actually care about free speech on campus have with conservatives who claim to be free-speech warriors but engage mostly in drive-by trolling. Its nuance comes at least partially from the fact that it was written by Reason, which almost exclusively takes the libertarian, free speech position and suggests (perhaps rightfully) that currently that position is most threatened by liberal/progressive students.

The number one threat to free speech is this notion that people have a right to not be offended. I personally believe both the right and left are equally at fault with this. On the right you have people who get their jimmies rustled if someone is critical about Murica or Jesus and on the left you have people who almost wreck their Subarus if someone is critical about their economic or social world view. We're a society where it's easier to be offended than to argue convincingly for your viewpoint. I wish we all were a little more like Dennis Leary. 

im-an-asshole-and-proud-of-it.jpg

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8 hours ago, smltwnrckr said:

But what interest would she have in following up and actually engaging in dialogue when she can be a pseudo celebrity in conservative media circles at the expense of her own campus community? I think that 15 years ago, that girl would have been more likely to take that professor up on her offer.

The notion that all politics is local, in cases like these, is flipped upside down. It's now all defined by some cheap form of national "discourse." It's very frustrating for people who actually care about free speech.

Exactly. And I don’t even know if I blame the girl. She’s a naive, idealistic 19-year-old who seemed overwhelmed in the moment. But it is telling that she would ignore the offer of a real discussion.

Also, 15 years ago this whole scene would’ve been an utterly forgettable episode between one lefty zealot phd and one righty 19-year-old that nobody outside of a few people in Lincoln would’ve ever noticed. The kind of thing that happens all the time on a college campus. Instead, a cell phone camera catches a middle finger and suddenly the outrage machine gets cranking and sets off enormous political pressure with no sense of scale.

The outrage machine has become quite efficient, whether it be used to shut down a speech in Berkeley or to exert enough pressure that a PhD candidate in Nebraska is forced from teaching. And it’s a death knell to free expression.

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7 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

The number one threat to free speech is this notion that people have a right to not be offended. I personally believe both the right and left are equally at fault with this. On the right you have people who get their jimmies rustled if someone is critical about Murica or Jesus and on the left you have people who almost wreck their Subarus if someone is critical about their economic or social world view. We're a society where it's easier to be offended than to argue convincingly for your viewpoint. I wish we all were a little more like Dennis Leary. 

im-an-asshole-and-proud-of-it.jpg

I agree, but I also think you don’t have to be an asshole. It’s a choice. Everyone should have the right, but it’s a shitty way to get your point across. 

Edit: This is probably why you beat the crap out of me in the Troll Derby.

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9 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

Do you always use one line of a thousand plus word essay, that may or may not be true, to determine whether it hits the mark in general?

I do when it is effectively the thesis of the essay.

9 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

The number one threat to free speech is this notion that people have a right to not be offended. I personally believe both the right and left are equally at fault with this. On the right you have people who get their jimmies rustled if someone is critical about Murica or Jesus and on the left you have people who almost wreck their Subarus if someone is critical about their economic or social world view. We're a society where it's easier to be offended than to argue convincingly for your viewpoint. I wish we all were a little more like Dennis Leary. 

im-an-asshole-and-proud-of-it.jpg

"Not freedom from consequences" amirite?

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Just now, happycamper said:

"Not freedom from consequences" amirite?

I accept the fact or reality that when I make controversial or asshole statements, there is a high likelihood of someone responding in kind. It kinda goes with the territory. 

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6 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

I accept the fact or reality that when I make controversial or asshole statements, there is a high likelihood of someone responding in kind. It kinda goes with the territory. 

You do, but a lot of the "I'm just not PC it's free speech!!!!" crowd does not.

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29 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I do when it is effectively the thesis of the essay.

That’s quite an example of burying the lede.

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