Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

sebasour

It’s official, Gonzaga staying put

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, alum93 said:

What's your opinion of JoJo Zamora?  He sat out a year and will be playing for NMSU.  He was going to transfer to GCU and then ended up committing to NMSU for his senior season.  We are pretty deep at guard, but i assume he will get good minutes off the bench.

I liked Jo Jo, he could be a good player.  His only negative was that he wasn't great from 3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

Maybe in the case of the WCC schools, who apparently can just make money appear, it doesn't. Coming from our world that's hard to fathom. Regardless, I fail to see how the rules the WCC just made help the conference. It seems they just told Gonzaga "we will do whatever you want us to do to keep you." Doesn't really sound like a viable situation to me. Maybe I would agree if all the other schools were calling for these changes too, but I didn't see that in anything I read. I didn't follow it super close though, so maybe I missed it. Yeah we went through a similar rationale with Boise. It was a tremendous mistake.

I think Tier 3 rights could help. I don't really see it as a panacea. For schools to have really viable national hoops programs, we need to be able to pay coach $2-3 mil. I don't think any of us are seeing an extra $1-$2 mil from Tier 3 rights. nd even if we did, it probably gets shoveled into our football money pits. It would help with the problem for some schools, but I don't think it solves it. And frankly, if it damages a solid program (like UNR or Fresno or UNM) in the process, I don't think it's worth it. Being a part of a conference means sharing success and sharing pain... and I'm glad we are part of the MWC despite it's flaws.

It's the same thing you're doing in football for Boise, and I agree it was a mistake.  All it's done is disadvantage any other semi decent team who gets their games picked up by CBSSN, while Boise never has to play on that network.  I see why you didn't want to bend over backwards for them, but they'd have left something like 12 million in credits paid over six or seven years to leave.  That's a lot, imo.  I think they wanted the opportunity to make that here if they performed well.  

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Del Scorcho said:

I liked Jo Jo, he could be a good player.  His only negative was that he wasn't great from 3.

Cool.  Thanks.  I see he averaged 6.9ppg in P12, so i figure he is a good pickup.  We have 4 guards coming back from the rotation this year, so it will be interesting to see if he beats someone out either for a starting position or first off the bench for minutes.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Jack Bauer said:

It's the same thing you're doing in football for Boise, and I agree it was a mistake.  I see why you didn't want to bend over backwards for them, but they'd have left something like 12 million in credits paid over six or seven years to leave.  That's a lot, imo.  I think they wanted the opportunity to make that here if they performed well.  

I just don't think it's a viable way to run a conference. Especially if the teams are at least making good faith efforts to try to be competitive (so everyone here but SJSU). Obviously that isn't the situation in the WCC, so while I don't really fault the Zags for snagging all the money they earn, it isn't the way I would like to see the MWC run. I mean we were pretty much in the same boat as the Zags when we were in the Big West. And if UNLV was the one earning all the credits for the MWC, I would feel they should be distributed. I just think it keeps a weak conference weaker to do otherwise, especially when it is made up of public schools.

It's pretty much the reason the Big 12 is a ticking time bomb. The MWC has largely fixed it, but it is still a very sore spot. The whole "pay for performance" is great in most other areas of society, but not in this type of partnership, and that's what a conference should be... a partnership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Amaru523 said:

Playing at SDSU, Nevada, New Mexico, Boise, and UNLV on a yearly basis is not the same as playing San Diego, San Francisco, and Pacific, who play in glorified high school gyms.  You guys have St. Mary's and BYU and the rest is gravy.

It's not that different. I don't see 6 "guaranteed" losses in the MW for the last 19 years. 

34 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

I think Gonzaga is good, but personally, I'm not convinced that they are any better than the top of the PAC12. 

They really don't have that many athletic guys on their team.   We all see how they struggle against long, athletic teams.   For as much criticism and belittling as there is about the WCC, Gonzaga benefits a ton, because they never have to compete against that athletic of teams.

Hachimura is probably the most athletic player on the West Coast. Last year GU had Collins, who was long and athletic as all get out. Gonzaga goes out and plays ~1/3 the schedule against athletic teams, frankly, GU's non conference schedule is pretty comparable to the toughest half of any P6 team's conference schedule.

Stunner you talking about basketball is like ph talking. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NorCalCoug said:

Playing in a gym or arena does not affect the performance on the court.  Gonzaga could easily handle all the teams mentioned.


But playing in a gym affects recruiting....

 

Allegedly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jack Bauer said:

It's the same thing you're doing in football for Boise, and I agree it was a mistake.  All it's done is disadvantage any other semi decent team who gets their games picked up by CBSSN, while Boise never has to play on that network.  I see why you didn't want to bend over backwards for them, but they'd have left something like 12 million in credits paid over six or seven years to leave.  That's a lot, imo.  I think they wanted the opportunity to make that here if they performed well.  

While I get what you're trying to say, these scheduling and revenue distribution changes are actually better for the WCC than what the MW did with Boise.

The WCC changes mean that any team that performs well enough in conference gets a double bye in the conference tournament and tearns that earn NCAA tournament credits get to keep more of what they earn.  In the short term, it definitely looks like Gonzaga is the primary beneficiary, but things can change over time.

With the MW deal, BSU is the beneficiary without regard to performance in the short term and the long term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, SharkTanked said:

I just don't think it's a viable way to run a conference. Especially if the teams are at least making good faith efforts to try to be competitive (so everyone here but SJSU). Obviously that isn't the situation in the WCC, so while I don't really fault the Zags for snagging all the money they earn, it isn't the way I would like to see the MWC run. I mean we were pretty much in the same boat as the Zags when we were in the Big West. And if UNLV was the one earning all the credits for the MWC, I would feel they should be distributed. I just think it keeps a weak conference weaker to do otherwise, especially when it is made up of public schools.

It's pretty much the reason the Big 12 is a ticking time bomb. The MWC has largely fixed it, but it is still a very sore spot. The whole "pay for performance" is great in most other areas of society, but not in this type of partnership, and that's what a conference should be... a partnership.

It's not, but you guys are already doing that with Boise.  I don't care what the WCC does because so many teams are not making a good faith effort.  Men's bball should be the gem of most of these schools, and they're failing at a very high level to be competitive.  And you don't even need to be special to get good at bball in the NCAA.  It's one of the few sports where a small program can do something against the biggest/best programs.  I'm not saying everyone can be like Gonzaga, but I don't see any reasons that most of these teams should be in the top 175 of college bball given their location and academics.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Pelado said:

While I get what you're trying to say, these scheduling and revenue distribution changes are actually better for the WCC than what the MW did with Boise.

The WCC changes mean that any team that performs well enough in conference gets a double bye in the conference tournament and tearns that earn NCAA tournament credits get to keep more of what they earn.  In the short term, it definitely looks like Gonzaga is the primary beneficiary, but things can change over time.

With the MW deal, BSU is the beneficiary without regard to performance in the short term and the long term.

Yeah, I agree.  They're paying Boise for past performance, while Gonzaga has already earned the money for performance and is just asking for more of it.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jack Bauer said:

BYU would have been fourth or fifth this year, which was a down year.  We return pretty much the whole team next year. 

 

You were one of the few who was skeptical from the beginning.  A guy I have contact with at BYU told me it was a near certainty Gonzaga was leaving, and I believed him.  He's usually been right about this stuff.

 

That's kind of the way I've been thinking about this.

 

On paper BYU returns everyone, but it will be interesting on how things shake out during the off season.  Will Nick Emery be back next year?  Both Ryan Andrus 6' 11" 240 and Braiden Shaw 6' 9" 210 red-shirted the whole season do to injury.  Kajon Brown 6' 5" 200 decided to transfer at the end of December.  Dalton Nixon 6' 7" 215  missed 12 games this season because of injury.  Then Kolby Lee 6' 9" 260, came home from his mission during mid-year (over a year early) and red-shirted the second half of the season.  All in all, this kind of put's BYU in a scholarship crunch.  BYU has pre-mission commits coming back this year in Connor Harding 6' 6" 185 and Gavin Baxter 6' 9" 195 (both ESPN 4 star recruits and both were in ESPN's top 100 recruits in 2016, although Harding dropped out of the top 100 in their final rankings). https://byucougars.com/story/m-basketball/113603/2015-16-BYU-basketball-signing-class

Since Kolby Lee was a mission first recruit in 2017, he has put Coach Rose in a tough spot.  It could be fine and already worked out with Lee paying his way this year.  Like Harding, Lee is also a ESPN 4 star recruit and ESPN list them as Idaho's top recruit for the given year.  https://byucougars.com/story/m-basketball/118133/Kolby-Lee-signs-National-Letter-of-Intent-with-BYU

Another interesting spin could be the Russian kid (6' 8" or 6' 9") that could not score high enough on the English speaking test to be cleared by the NCAA last year (thus, Kajon Brown got the scholarship).  It sounds like BYU is still working to get him cleared by the clearing house.  For a big he sure can handle the ball (dibbling and passing) and  has a pretty nice shot (inside and out).   All the videos I have watched of him, I have yet to see him dunk the ball.  It looks like he has played on the Jr National team for a few years.

One player I do wonder about is Braiden Shaw, he has been a good energy player off the bench, but injuries could make him less effective.  Plus BYU will has a lot of options for those possible minutes; Yoeli Childs 6' 8" 225, Luke Worthington 6' 10" 235,  Payton Dastrup 6' 10" 250, Ryan Andrus 6' 11" 240, Kolby Lee 6' 9" 260, Gavin Baxter 6' 9" 195, Dalton Nixon 6' 7" 215, and Zac Seljaas 6' 7" 215.  I would like to see Kolby Lee drop 10 to 20 pounds which would allow him to run the court a little better.   But the recruit I've been waiting for is Baxter, he is very long and bouncy (returns home in May).  BYU should be much, much better this coming season with everyone returning and the additions (red-shirt & recruits).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

I think Gonzaga is good, but personally, I'm not convinced that they are any better than the top of the PAC12. 

They really don't have that many athletic guys on their team.   We all see how they struggle against long, athletic teams.   For as much criticism and belittling as there is about the WCC, Gonzaga benefits a ton, because they never have to compete against that athletic of teams.

Honestly, Gonzaga reminds me a lot of Utah's teams under Majerus.  Skilled guys who are well coached.   

 

1 hour ago, happycamper said:

It's not that different. I don't see 6 "guaranteed" losses in the MW for the last 19 years. 

Hachimura is probably the most athletic player on the West Coast. Last year GU had Collins, who was long and athletic as all get out. Gonzaga goes out and plays ~1/3 the schedule against athletic teams, frankly, GU's non conference schedule is pretty comparable to the toughest half of any P6 team's conference schedule.

Stunner you talking about basketball is like ph talking. 

Please work on your reading comprehension...

I said "that many" athletic "guys" (more than 1 player).  Hachimura is one guy, and probably the only guy on Gonzaga's team that is a great athlete.  He is very raw.  Gonzaga got dominated when they faced an athletic team in the tourney.

 

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/03/22/gonzaga-overwhelmed-by-imposing-florida-state-in-sweet-16-defeat/

Gonzaga overwhelmed by ‘imposing’ Florida State in Sweet 16 defeat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

 

Please work on your reading comprehension...

I said "that many" athletic "guys" (more than 1 player).  Hachimura is one guy, and probably the only guy on Gonzaga's team that is a great athlete.  He is very raw.  Gonzaga got dominated when they faced an athletic team in the tourney.

 

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/03/22/gonzaga-overwhelmed-by-imposing-florida-state-in-sweet-16-defeat/

Gonzaga overwhelmed by ‘imposing’ Florida State in Sweet 16 defeat

Stunner, you have no idea what you are talking about. Gonzaga had lost Tillie and had 2 (2!) big men that entire game. Against frickin 5-6 deep Florida State. GU's tallest player was out against a team with multiple 7 footers. 

Gonzaga has plenty of athleticism. We just didn't have length or depth this year. It's not like this was a secret, either. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
11 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Stunner, you have no idea what you are talking about. Gonzaga had lost Tillie and had 2 (2!) big men that entire game. Against frickin 5-6 deep Florida State. GU's tallest player was out against a team with multiple 7 footers. 

Gonzaga has plenty of athleticism. We just didn't have length or depth this year. It's not like this was a secret, either. 

LOL!

I know all about Tillie---I watched him hit 3 pointers at the WCC tourney a month ago.    Tillie is a good 3 point shooter, and a guy that scores off of rebounds, but he is not an athlete.   He would have struggled against Florida St. just as much as Gonzaga's other players.  His brother was the same sort of player---not an elite athlete.  https://utahutes.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2845

Look, Gonzaga is a skilled, well coached team.  But they don't have that many guys that are great athletes.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Stunner, you have no idea what you are talking about. Gonzaga had lost Tillie and had 2 (2!) big men that entire game. Against frickin 5-6 deep Florida State. GU's tallest player was out against a team with multiple 7 footers. 

Gonzaga has plenty of athleticism. We just didn't have length or depth this year. It's not like this was a secret, either. 

Not true, Jacob Larsen 6' 11" 227 is the tallest on the team.  But the big from Denmark is a sizable step down from the big from France (Tillie)...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

LOL!

I know all about Tillie---I watched him hit 3 pointers at the WCC tourney a month ago.    Tillie is a good 3 point shooter, and a guy that scores off of rebounds, but he is not an athlete.   He would have struggled against Florida St. just as much as Gonzaga's other players.

Look, Gonzaga is a skilled, well coached team.  But they don't have that many guys that are great athletes.  

Stunner. Again. You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't even know enough about the situation to know that you are wrong. 

Gonzaga struggled against a much larger team by playing a 6'7 SF and a 6-9 PF as our 2 bigs. That... is not a shocker.

Tillie is a 6-10 guy who rebounds and blocks like crazy. He had 8 rebounds against UNC on the bench last year. He spreads the court - you know, something slightly vital against big teams- and provides lots of second chances and snags boards on the other end. He's a key piece defensively and offensively.

GU has athleticism. GU just doesn't have a lot of depth, this year in particular. Your characterization as a team without athleticism is about a decade out of date.

1 minute ago, e-zone99 said:

Not true, Jacob Larsen 6' 11" 227 is the tallest on the team.  But the big from Denmark is a sizable step down from the big from France (Tillie)...

 

Larsen played... 25? minutes the entire season. Maybe in 2019 he'll be there but he was a club tril guy this year. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
15 hours ago, e-zone99 said:

Not true, Jacob Larsen 6' 11" 227 is the tallest on the team.  But the big from Denmark is a sizable step down from the big from France (Tillie)...

 

One of Gonzaga's starters is also 6'9", 228 -- Jonathan Williams.   It's not like they were a team of midgets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
Just now, happycamper said:

Stunner. Again. You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't even know enough about the situation to know that you are wrong. 

Gonzaga struggled against a much larger team by playing a 6'7 SF and a 6-9 PF as our 2 bigs. That... is not a shocker.

Tillie is a 6-10 guy who rebounds and blocks like crazy. He had 8 rebounds against UNC on the bench last year. He spreads the court - you know, something slightly vital against big teams- and provides lots of second chances and snags boards on the other end. He's a key piece defensively and offensively.

GU has athleticism. GU just doesn't have a lot of depth, this year in particular. Your characterization as a team without athleticism is about a decade out of date.

Larsen played... 25? minutes the entire season. Maybe in 2019 he'll be there but he was a club tril guy this year. 

 

Keep digging that hole...  Tell us all about Gonzaga's elite athletes.   Who on Goznaga's roster is a great, athletic talent this year?  Hachimura, yes.  Who else?

Where are all these "elite athletes" that you claim Gonzaga has on their teams?    They put up great numbers...against the WCC.   

Yes, they are skilled, but come on.   You are really arguing that Killian Tillie is some sort of elite talent?    Maybe compared to Wyoming Cowboys basketball.  Try watching basketball that isn't just the MWC or Wyoming, and you'll probably realize that a guy like Killian Tillie is not the next Kevin Durant. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest #1Stunner
40 minutes ago, e-zone99 said:

 

On paper BYU returns everyone, but it will be interesting on how things shake out during the off season.  Will Nick Emery be back next year?  Both Ryan Andrus 6' 11" 240 and Braiden Shaw 6' 9" 210 red-shirted the whole season do to injury.  Kajon Brown 6' 5" 200 decided to transfer at the end of December.  Dalton Nixon 6' 7" 215  missed 12 games this season because of injury.  Then Kolby Lee 6' 9" 260, came home from his mission during mid-year (over a year early) and red-shirted the second half of the season.  All in all, this kind of put's BYU in a scholarship crunch.  BYU has pre-mission commits coming back this year in Connor Harding 6' 6" 185 and Gavin Baxter 6' 9" 195 (both ESPN 4 star recruits and both were in ESPN's top 100 recruits in 2016, although Harding dropped out of the top 100 in their final rankings). https://byucougars.com/story/m-basketball/113603/2015-16-BYU-basketball-signing-class

Since Kolby Lee was a mission first recruit in 2017, he has put Coach Rose in a tough spot.  It could be fine and already worked out with Lee paying his way this year.  Like Harding, Lee is also a ESPN 4 star recruit and ESPN list them as Idaho's top recruit for the given year.  https://byucougars.com/story/m-basketball/118133/Kolby-Lee-signs-National-Letter-of-Intent-with-BYU

Another interesting spin could be the Russian kid (6' 8" or 6' 9") that could not score high enough on the English speaking test to be cleared by the NCAA last year (thus, Kajon Brown got the scholarship).  It sounds like BYU is still working to get him cleared by the clearing house.  For a big he sure can handle the ball (dibbling and passing) and  has a pretty nice shot (inside and out).   All the videos I have watched of him, I have yet to see him dunk the ball.  It looks like he has played on the Jr National team for a few years.

One player I do wonder about is Braiden Shaw, he has been a good energy player off the bench, but injuries could make him less effective.  Plus BYU will has a lot of options for those possible minutes; Yoeli Childs 6' 8" 225, Luke Worthington 6' 10" 235,  Payton Dastrup 6' 10" 250, Ryan Andrus 6' 11" 240, Kolby Lee 6' 9" 260, Gavin Baxter 6' 9" 195, Dalton Nixon 6' 7" 215, and Zac Seljaas 6' 7" 215.  I would like to see Kolby Lee drop 10 to 20 pounds which would allow him to run the court a little better.   But the recruit I've been waiting for is Baxter, he is very long and bouncy (returns home in May).  BYU should be much, much better this coming season with everyone returning and the additions (red-shirt & recruits).

 

BYU probably needs to dump half their team.   Roster is full of guys that probably belong at UVU or SUU.   

Guys like Braiden Shaw, Kolby Lee, Zach Seljaas, McKay Cannon, Dalton Nixon----they really don't have the talent to be on BYU's team.

We need to hit the JC ranks or transfers, and find a few guys that are capable of doing something.  Anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...