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sebasour

It’s official, Gonzaga staying put

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I'd honestly put the odds on Gonzaga to the MWC happening at about 95% right now. A significant majority of the university presidents believe it to be a great move, and think that it could force BYU into coming back, hat in hand, for all sports. 

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7 minutes ago, retrofade said:

I'd honestly put the odds on Gonzaga to the MWC happening at about 95% right now. A significant majority of the university presidents believe it to be a great move, and think that it could force BYU into coming back, hat in hand, for all sports. 

I think playing and traveling in the MWC for an entire season would have been harder on them than the WCC is for sure.  Legs, losses, injuries.  We've got a a lot of MWC ballers on the benches right now, not playing.  I think they are certainly the favs, but 95% is pretty generous.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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8 minutes ago, pokebball said:

I think playing and traveling in the MWC for an entire season would have been harder on them than the WCC is for sure.  Legs, losses, injuries.  We've got a a lot of MWC ballers on the benches right now, not playing.  I think they are certainly the favs, but 95% is pretty generous.

I think that they want a more competitive league... one where they're not carrying the entire conference. Gonzaga in the WCC makes us a 3-4 bid league most years to be honest, simply because of the increase in RPI and credibility. An entire three teams have won the WCC tournament in the last 10 years, and they have more schools in the 275-350 RPI range than we do. They'll be getting more revenue in a higher profile conference if they were to move. Traveling in the MWC isn't significantly different than traveling within the WCC to be completely honest, so their potential increase in expenses there is negligible at best. 

The fact that this was leaked and then later confirmed by Hair leads me to believe that it's all but a done deal at this point. I could certainly be wrong, but I'd be willing to put good money on them joining the conference for next season. 

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6 hours ago, cherrycrush said:

seeds1-7 all have a shot at winning the MWCT that’s pretty good for a down year.  

Or maybe a sign that the top teams aren't elite.

2 hours ago, SparkysDad said:

I'm surprised by some (seem like about half) of the fans on BYU's Cougar Board are of a mind that if Gonzaga leaves, that they should first, stay Independent for football and second, stick with the WCC and become "the next Gonzaga" by winning the WCC and going to the NCAA Tourney most years.  There is a strong core feeling of not "crawling back to the MWC" and especially Hair.

I'm trying to empathize, but I don't get it.  Isn't it exactly the same situation they faced when Utah and TCU left the MWC?  The conference was significantly weaker and they chose to leave?  Obviously, I'm not as emotionally tied to BYU as their fanbase, but if offered, I'd think they'd jump their basketball to the MWC in a heartbeat.  I even understand their desire to stay Independent in football (and cash the bigger checks and hope that their football program improves to be competitive with those schedules).

BYU fans, help?

 

 

You guys never believe seem to believe it, but BYU had been pretty pissed at the conference and its TV partners since the deal went into effect in 2006.  Pretty much nobody could see the games outside the MWC footprint (and even in some of the footprint).  That was not what BYU thought they were getting when they agreed to the deal.  This is from when the CSTV contract was first announced:

 

Quote

 

''Our goal is to give them maximum exposure,'' said Brian Bedol, CSTV's president.

With about eight million satellite and cable subscribers and with hopes of having upward of 40 million by 2006, CSTV will almost certainly have to sublicense national games to another more widely distributed broadcast or cable network, like CBS or Fox Sports Net, to provide ESPN-like exposure.

CSTV and the conference are also discussing a regional cable network to carry Mountain West athletic events.

Bedol said that the traditional television and newer technologies -- the Internet, broadband, streaming video, and video on demand -- combined with CSTV's complete focus on college sports was attractive to the conference, which comprises Air Force, Brigham Young, Colorado State, Nevada-Las Vegas, New Mexico, San Diego State, Utah and Wyoming.

''It's a broad algorithm of choices for viewers to create a personal connection with the schools they care about,'' he said. ''What we see is that if, during the past decade, music went portable, we see video becoming portable in this decade.''

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/sports/mountain-west-and-cstv-agree-on-82-million-deal.html

That goal of maximum exposure went in the garbage can when Comcast partnered with CBS/CBS College Sports (after the purchase of CSTV) and decided to use the MWC TV deal to drive up cable subscriptions at the expense of exposure for the schools.  And BYU got stuck on the mtn (in standard definition) more than any other MWC school, in spite of BYU going undefeated through the conference slate in both 2006 and 2007.  And, as I think has already been covered in this thread, Comcast would not allow the rebroadcast of games on BYUtv, as BYU had been promised they could and as ESPN had always permitted.

They also didn't live up to their words on incorporating new technology to stream the games, which could have alleviated the problems.

As has also been discussed, BYU and Utah teamed up to hire a law firm to see what they could do to improve their TV situation.  None of the other schools in conference seemed to care.  The TV issue probably affected BYU more than most because a good portion, if not the majority, of their alumni live outside the MWC footprint.

In fairness, the TV situation did improve over time - the mtn became available on DirecTV nationwide at some point (of course, then Versus was in a fees dispute and was not carried that season).  Then, they started showing at least some of the football games in high definition (but none of the basketball games).  So by the time BYU actually left, the TV situation, while not ideal, was at least better than it had been.

The TV situation has been much better for BYU since going independent/joining the WCC.  All their home games in both football and men's basketball are broadcast on either ESPN or BYUtv in high definition.  For all of their games to which ESPN has rights (including road games), BYUtv is allowed to rebroadcast the games.  BYU's departure from the MWC also improved the TV situation for the remaining schools. The mtn was no longer sustainable, having largely been built by Comcast subscribers in Utah.  That freed the MWC from the grips of Comcast, and allowed them to get some better exposure dealing with just CBS instead.

To the extent BYU is reluctant to rejoin the league today, it is probably mostly about not trusting Thompson et al. to do what they say they are going to do.

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On 3/6/2018 at 12:44 PM, mugtang said:

We joined the WAC in 2000 after everybody left for the MWC. 

We were brought in in part because of the split, weren’t we?  TCU left the next year (for either the MWC or CUSA, I don’t remember), and that got Boise brought in.  Boise leaving officially killed off Big West football.

Is it fitting or irony that possibly the most versatile word in the English language is also of unknown origin?

5810036134_cb4d739b38_b.jpg

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9 minutes ago, retrofade said:

I think that they want a more competitive league... one where they're not carrying the entire conference. Gonzaga in the WCC makes us a 3-4 bid league most years to be honest, simply because of the increase in RPI and credibility. An entire three teams have won the WCC tournament in the last 10 years, and they have more schools in the 275-350 RPI range than we do. They'll be getting more revenue in a higher profile conference if they were to move. Traveling in the MWC isn't significantly different than traveling within the WCC to be completely honest, so their potential increase in expenses there is negligible at best. 

The fact that this was leaked and then later confirmed by Hair leads me to believe that it's all but a done deal at this point. I could certainly be wrong, but I'd be willing to put good money on them joining the conference for next season. 

I find all of this quite interesting.  Gonzaga basketball would be a tremendous get for the MWC and their other Olympic sports would be a nice addition as well.  I’m a BYU alum and fan who has never been a fan of leaving the MWC (I guess I’m in the minority on that one).  I’ve lived in several MWC locales over the years (Wyoming, CA Central Valley, Utah, Idaho), have a daughter and son-in-law who are Aggies, and I am just old school and like the teams in this league and the regional aspect to the games.  I have so many good friends that are Pokes and I generally miss giving them sh@t.  They continue to let me know immediately every time BYU sh@ts the bed (which has been a lot in the last 6 months), and I just reassure them it’s all good since there isn’t a whole heck of a lot to cheer for being a Poke fan.  I get that you’ve got to find your pleasure somewhere.  I wish nothing but the best for the MWC and if we are fellow conference members in the future, may you all rot in hell (except the Benevolent One Lord Mug)

Serious question retro, do you believe if Gonzaga were a member this year that this would be a 3-4 bid league?  I think it would be fairly similar except Gonzaga would have a couple of more losses, but so would everyone else.  It would definitely be a 2 bid league with one potential bubble team.  The potential is there, but some of the traditional basketball powers need to step in up.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks.

 

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9 minutes ago, Wolverine said:

I find all of this quite interesting.  Gonzaga basketball would be a tremendous get for the MWC and their other Olympic sports would be a nice addition as well.  I’m a BYU alum and fan who has never been a fan of leaving the MWC (I guess I’m in the minority on that one).  I’ve lived in several MWC locales over the years (Wyoming, CA Central Valley, Utah, Idaho), have a daughter and son-in-law who are Aggies, and I am just old school and like the teams in this league and the regional aspect to the games.  I have so many good friends that are Pokes and I generally miss giving them sh@t.  They continue to let me know immediately every time BYU sh@ts the bed (which has been a lot in the last 6 months), and I just reassure them it’s all good since there isn’t a whole heck of a lot to cheer for being a Poke fan.  I get that you’ve got to find your pleasure somewhere.  I wish nothing but the best for the MWC and if we are fellow conference members in the future, may you all rot in hell (except the Benevolent One Lord Mug)

Serious question retro, do you believe if Gonzaga were a member this year that this would be a 3-4 bid league?  I think it would be fairly similar except Gonzaga would have a couple of more losses, but so would everyone else.  It would definitely be a 2 bid league with one potential bubble team.  The potential is there, but some of the traditional basketball powers need to step in up.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks.

 

As it pertains to this year, we'd be a guaranteed 2-bid league, with the outside chance of being a 3-bid league. If we add the Zags and move to a 20 game conference schedule, we should be able to be at minimum a 3-5 bid league every year. The chances of that going up further depend on a potential addition of BYU and the removal of the RPI disaster that is SJSU. 

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43 minutes ago, Pelado said:

Or maybe a sign that the top teams aren't elite.

You guys never believe seem to believe it, but BYU had been pretty pissed at the conference and its TV partners since the deal went into effect in 2006.  Pretty much nobody could see the games outside the MWC footprint (and even in some of the footprint).  That was not what BYU thought they were getting when they agreed to the deal.  This is from when the CSTV contract was first announced:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/sports/mountain-west-and-cstv-agree-on-82-million-deal.html

That goal of maximum exposure went in the garbage can when Comcast partnered with CBS/CBS College Sports (after the purchase of CSTV) and decided to use the MWC TV deal to drive up cable subscriptions at the expense of exposure for the schools.  And BYU got stuck on the mtn (in standard definition) more than any other MWC school, in spite of BYU going undefeated through the conference slate in both 2006 and 2007.  And, as I think has already been covered in this thread, Comcast would not allow the rebroadcast of games on BYUtv, as BYU had been promised they could and as ESPN had always permitted.

They also didn't live up to their words on incorporating new technology to stream the games, which could have alleviated the problems.

As has also been discussed, BYU and Utah teamed up to hire a law firm to see what they could do to improve their TV situation.  None of the other schools in conference seemed to care.  The TV issue probably affected BYU more than most because a good portion, if not the majority, of their alumni live outside the MWC footprint.

In fairness, the TV situation did improve over time - the mtn became available on DirecTV nationwide at some point (of course, then Versus was in a fees dispute and was not carried that season).  Then, they started showing at least some of the football games in high definition (but none of the basketball games).  So by the time BYU actually left, the TV situation, while not ideal, was at least better than it had been.

The TV situation has been much better for BYU since going independent/joining the WCC.  All their home games in both football and men's basketball are broadcast on either ESPN or BYUtv in high definition.  For all of their games to which ESPN has rights (including road games), BYUtv is allowed to rebroadcast the games.  BYU's departure from the MWC also improved the TV situation for the remaining schools. The mtn was no longer sustainable, having largely been built by Comcast subscribers in Utah.  That freed the MWC from the grips of Comcast, and allowed them to get some better exposure dealing with just CBS instead.

To the extent BYU is reluctant to rejoin the league today, it is probably mostly about not trusting Thompson et al. to do what they say they are going to do.

Nobody was happy about the tv deal, it wasn't just BYU. But your guys helped broker the deal, so they wouldn't have to play on Sundays and kiss the ring for ESPN. Then they threw a shit fit and left.

 

 

GO POKES!!!

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If this Boise team did have a Gonzaga win on their resume they'd be damn close. Isn't a strong league what got Boise in a few years back (that year we got 5) and CSU the year before?

IIRC neither team did a whole lot in OOC play, but picked up big wins against teams like NM, SDSU, and UNLV at home and that ended up being enough. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SparkysDad said:

I'm surprised by some (seem like about half) of the fans on BYU's Cougar Board are of a mind that if Gonzaga leaves, that they should first, stay Independent for football and second, stick with the WCC and become "the next Gonzaga" by winning the WCC and going to the NCAA Tourney most years.  There is a strong core feeling of not "crawling back to the MWC" and especially Hair.

I'm trying to empathize, but I don't get it.  Isn't it exactly the same situation they faced when Utah and TCU left the MWC?  The conference was significantly weaker and they chose to leave?  Obviously, I'm not as emotionally tied to BYU as their fanbase, but if offered, I'd think they'd jump their basketball to the MWC in a heartbeat.  I even understand their desire to stay Independent in football (and cash the bigger checks and hope that their football program improves to be competitive with those schedules).

BYU fans, help?

 

 

I think many would be happy to return here, but they feel betrayed by Hair previously and would prefer he not be the commissioner here if we are here.  

 

3 hours ago, Rebels2k3 said:

BYU fans are just prideful. They don't want to seem like they are going to settle for the MWC after trashing them. In reality, I think most of them deep down wouldn't mind seeing their basketball program back in the MWC.

I'll freely admit I'd prefer to be here for bball.

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

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37 minutes ago, retrofade said:

As it pertains to this year, we'd be a guaranteed 2-bid league, with the outside chance of being a 3-bid league. If we add the Zags and move to a 20 game conference schedule, we should be able to be at minimum a 3-5 bid league every year. The chances of that going up further depend on a potential addition of BYU and the removal of the RPI disaster that is SJSU. 

I just don't think you guys kick out SJSU.

 

19 minutes ago, poke em said:

Nobody was happy about the tv deal, it wasn't just BYU. But your guys helped broker the deal, so they wouldn't have to play on Sundays and kiss the ring for ESPN. Then they threw a shit fit and left.

 

 

If that's the case, why didn't anyone want to participate in trying to make the cable folks do what they'd agreed to?  More just out of curiosity than anything.  

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

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7 minutes ago, rebelcuff said:

Anybody know what byu's attendance has been in conference against schools other than st Mary's or gonzaga? Hair is going to get some payback.

They've ranged from 11.5K to 16.5K this year. Portland and Pacific weirdly drew more than St. Mary's

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1 hour ago, Jack Bauer said:

I just don't think you guys kick out SJSU.

 

If that's the case, why didn't anyone want to participate in trying to make the cable folks do what they'd agreed to?  More just out of curiosity than anything.  

Probably because the other schools realized that a signed contract is binding and there was no use complaining. The MWC should have had better lawyers when negotiating with CBS in the first place. They left a huge loophole and that is what phucked the MWC in the end. 

GO POKES!!!

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3 hours ago, retrofade said:

I'd honestly put the odds on Gonzaga to the MWC happening at about 95% right now. A significant majority of the university presidents believe it to be a great move, and think that it could force BYU into coming back, hat in hand, for all sports. 

The thing just sounds to good to be true I hope your right and I appreciate your optimism. 

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