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mugtang

Not only did the school resource officer not engage the shooter

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2 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

I'm not saying I'm in favor of arming teachers. My wife is a teacher and I listened to her thoughts on it. My cousin is a school cop and he is very much against it. I do know it has worked in Israel though. 

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21714

Curious.  What does your wife think about the resource officers in the school?  Is she fully comfortable with them there or would she prefer them not be there?

I realize I'm from Wyoming and the culture here is different than other places.  There are teachers in schools here that I know I'd be very comfortable with carrying and I believe would want to take this responsibility on and would do a great job with it.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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On one hand some of you are advocates of teachers packing.  On the other, some are expecting cops to go in immediately to confront and take down the shooter.  What happens when a cop bursts into a school and sees someone with a gun.  Should they stop and ask first if they have the necessary permit and are a teacher?  Or, do they just blast everyone with a gun?

I'm for blasting everyone with a gun.  If I was a cop I'm not going to risk taking a chance that the person with a gun could be a good guy.  

I'm writing this TIC but, you still have to think about this.

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8 minutes ago, NWRebel said:

On one hand some of you are advocates of teachers packing.  On the other, some are expecting cops to go in immediately to confront and take down the shooter.  What happens when a cop bursts into a school and sees someone with a gun.  Should they stop and ask first if they have the necessary permit and are a teacher?  Or, do they just blast everyone with a gun?

I'm for blasting everyone with a gun.  If I was a cop I'm not going to risk taking a chance that the person with a gun could be a good guy.  

I'm writing this TIC but, you still have to think about this.

It's good to think about all these possible scenarios.

 

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1 minute ago, NWRebel said:

On one hand some of you are advocates of teachers packing.  On the other, some are expecting cops to go in immediately to confront and take down the shooter.  What happens when a cop bursts into a school and sees someone with a gun.  Should they stop and ask first if they have the necessary permit and are a teacher?  Or, do they just blast everyone with a gun?

I'm for blasting everyone with a gun.  If I was a cop I'm not going to risk taking a chance that the person with a gun could be a good guy.  

I'm writing this TIC but, you still have to think about this.

Valid concern.  This concern already exists with a resource officer and the other cops that show up later.  The resource officer would know all of the teachers which would help reduce this risk.  The resource officer is already in uniform which would help identify him/her to other cops showing up.  Perhaps the gun packing teachers are identified with a vest or something?  Give them radios to give their positions to the LE.  I think there are things that could and should be done to address this concern.  Probably can't completely eliminate the risk.

If the event is still in guns a blazing mode when the other cops show up, there's plenty of carnage that has already occurred.  Perhaps any concern at this time is moot.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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5 minutes ago, NWRebel said:

On one hand some of you are advocates of teachers packing.  On the other, some are expecting cops to go in immediately to confront and take down the shooter.  What happens when a cop bursts into a school and sees someone with a gun.  Should they stop and ask first if they have the necessary permit and are a teacher?  Or, do they just blast everyone with a gun?

I'm for blasting everyone with a gun.  If I was a cop I'm not going to risk taking a chance that the person with a gun could be a good guy.  

I'm writing this TIC but, you still have to think about this.

 

I'm more for armed officers idea.

The teacher thing is more complicated, but is still better than most suggestions, imo. As far as training they'd be training with the same department responding so they could create their own procedures on that.

It'd be situational awareness. Even now active shooter training consists of the possibility a plain clothes officer is there doing same thing you are...finding shooter.

You shoot at the threats. A man with a gun being defensive looks a lot different than a psycho shooting every person it sees.

All is well, For Rice is gone.                  

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Just now, pokebball said:

Curious.  What does your wife think about the resource officers in the school?  Is she fully comfortable with them there or would she prefer them not be there?

I realize I'm from Wyoming and the culture here is different than other places.  There are teachers in schools here that I know I'd be very comfortable with carrying and I believe would want to take this responsibility on and would do a great job with it.

She teaches in an elementary school, where my son attends as well. There isn't a full time officer there. They make sweeps throughout the day but one isn't stationed there. 

She grew up in Oregon and her family hunted so she knows how to handle a gun. We have guns in our home. She isn't afraid of guns and knows how to use one. She also has no issue with cops being on site. She wishes there were more. 

My wife is very liberal. Almost the exact opposite of me on most political issues. I know, hard for many on here to believe. Her opinion is that teachers are there to teach. But she also understands that there isn't always a police presence at her school and she is defenseless. She doesn't want to do it but is open to it depending on the procedures of storing the gun, training, etc. 

My cousin is completely different. He is in a high school with around 2500 kids and he said he'd rather have the kids have the guns because he'd trust them more than the teachers. In his school there are 4 full time officers. He thinks it's the dumbest idea ever to arm teachers. His solution are more cops.    

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5 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

 

I'm more for armed officers idea.

The teacher thing is more complicated, but is still better than most suggestions, imo. As far as training they'd be training with the same department responding so they could create their own procedures on that.

It'd be situational awareness. Even now active shooter training consists of the possibility a plain clothes officer is there doing same thing you are...finding shooter.

You shoot at the threats. A man with a gun being defensive looks a lot different than a psycho shooting every person it sees.

I agree.  Shoot at the threats.  But, if you see one or more kids dying on the ground I'm sorry,  everyone not LE with a gun should be a suspect.  You turn your back on Sally Teacher because she is a good gal you might end up being the next victim.  Every high school should have more than one dedicated officer to protect our futures.

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1 minute ago, NWRebel said:

I agree.  Shoot at the threats.  But, if you see one or more kids dying on the ground I'm sorry,  everyone not LE with a gun should be a suspect.  You turn your back on Sally Teacher because she is a good gal you might end up being the next victim.  Every high school should have more than one dedicated officer to protect our futures.

 

It's complicated and not perfect for sure.

I agree.

No feel good laws change the fact that these kids are sitting ducks for minutes that feel like lifetimes.

All is well, For Rice is gone.                  

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2 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

 

It's complicated and not perfect for sure.

I agree.

No feel good laws change the fact that these kids are sitting ducks for minutes that feel like lifetimes.

The whole situation is sad.  To see lifetimes taken in minutes.  

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2 hours ago, pokebball said:

So, what's the scoop with this kid's parents?  They knew all of this right?  9yrs of this and what have they done?

His parents both died. His mother fairly recently. He was living with the second couple of people acting as a kind foster parents.

He has been active in a white nationalist militia group as well. He was expelled from school for writing “I hate n*****s on his book bag.

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26 minutes ago, jackmormon said:

His parents both died. His mother fairly recently. He was living with the second couple of people acting as a kind foster parents.

He has been active in a white nationalist militia group as well. He was expelled from school for writing “I hate n*****s on his book bag.

No, he wasn't. 

There are no indications in the group chat that any member, including Cruz, is or was part of a white nationalist or white supremacist group.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/exclusive-school-shooter-instagram-group/index.html

The guy was a racist POS apparently but he wasn't in a white nationalist group according to CNN. 

There is also this:

 

A white nationalist appears to have lied to The Associated Press and other news organizations when he claimed that Florida school-shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his obscure group.

Law enforcement officials have said they didn’t have any evidence to support the claim that Republic of Florida leader Jordan Jereb made in interviews with several news organizations.

http://time.com/5160819/parkland-shooter-nikolas-cruz-white-supremacist-group/

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3 hours ago, Rebelbacker said:

No, he wasn't. 

There are no indications in the group chat that any member, including Cruz, is or was part of a white nationalist or white supremacist group.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/exclusive-school-shooter-instagram-group/index.html

The guy was a racist POS apparently but he wasn't in a white nationalist group according to CNN. 

There is also this:

 

A white nationalist appears to have lied to The Associated Press and other news organizations when he claimed that Florida school-shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his obscure group.

Law enforcement officials have said they didn’t have any evidence to support the claim that Republic of Florida leader Jordan Jereb made in interviews with several news organizations.

http://time.com/5160819/parkland-shooter-nikolas-cruz-white-supremacist-group/

Says a lot about a group that would claim him. I’m sure there are good people on both sides though. 

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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You guys remember Columbine? All the news images of Cops huddled behind their cars while the shooting was still going on come to mind. 

Those deputy's should just go find a dark corner to hang themselves in. The entire world knows that they hid outside while children were being killed. They hid outside while coaches threw their bodies out to shield kids from the bullets. 

No excuse good enough to hide outside while kids are being killed, ignoring the screams and cries for help. +++++ing cowards. 

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1 hour ago, jackmormon said:

His parents both died. His mother fairly recently. He was living with the second couple of people acting as a kind foster parents.

He has been active in a white nationalist militia group as well. He was expelled from school for writing “I hate n*****s on his book bag.

His foster parents were trying to take his inheritance of almost $800,000. After the shooting, they had his little brother committed to a mental hospital (away from Attorneys) while they then petitioned the court to become admins of the inheritance. 

 

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4 hours ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Especially as (someone from LE correct if I'm wrong) I believe the current tactics call for immediate direct action to confront and neutralize the shooter as quick as possible.

Yah, I thought that was the lesson learned from Columbine.

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3 hours ago, NWRebel said:

On one hand some of you are advocates of teachers packing.  On the other, some are expecting cops to go in immediately to confront and take down the shooter.  What happens when a cop bursts into a school and sees someone with a gun.  Should they stop and ask first if they have the necessary permit and are a teacher?  Or, do they just blast everyone with a gun?

I'm for blasting everyone with a gun.  If I was a cop I'm not going to risk taking a chance that the person with a gun could be a good guy.  

I'm writing this TIC but, you still have to think about this.

The easy fix to this conundrum is to have a bright red shirt or bright orange shirt in the gun safe with the gun that the teacher could wear to identify them to the local cops that they are a teacher.    You need to have a policy and identification would be an obvious one.

If you are a cop and you bust into a school you cannot justify shooting any kid or adult with a gun just for having one.  It is not illegal to carry a gun in fact it is a 2nd amendment right.   Now you could order the person to put the gun down while having your finger very close to the trigger.

Cops can't shoot people who are in compliance with the law legally.   Now I know realistically they basically have a license to kill if they say the magic words.

 

6 minutes ago, CPslograd said:

Yah, I thought that was the lesson learned from Columbine.

We had a school response exercise just last year and at that time the cops were still trained to wait for at least 4 officers before entering the school.

Now I have been told that training has changed in other jurisdictions but that is what the cops were told to do last year by the state emergency manager.

I actually think they will all do that though, there was quite a bit of discontent when that policy was mandated.

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2 minutes ago, bluerules009 said:

If you are a cop and you bust into a school you cannot justify shooting any kid or adult with a gun just for having one.  It is not illegal to carry a gun in fact it is a 2nd amendment right.   Now you could order the person to put the gun down while having your finger very close to the trigger.

Cops can't shoot people who are in compliance with the law legally.   Now I know realistically they basically have a license to kill if they say the magic words.

 

We had a school response exercise just last year and at that time the cops were still trained to wait for at least 4 officers before entering the school.

Now I have been told that training has changed in other jurisdictions but that is what the cops were told to do last year by the state emergency manager.

I actually think they will all do that though, there was quite a bit of discontent when that policy was mandated.

OK, I didn't know that.

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