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mugtang

Instead of arming teachers what about

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Deploying 1 or 2 national guard soldiers armed with M-16s to stand guard on every campus.  Also install fencing or find a way to control all entry points and exit points in a school.  That way if some asshole wants to take his AR-15 and shoot a school up he will be met with greater firepower.  This is a decision that would have to be made at the State level but I think it would be a semi-reasonable option.  It definitely would be better than expecting untrained or poorly trained teachers to deal with a threat like that.  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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How about the POS cop that was there actually do his +++++ing job and save those kids! How about the police department and FBI not miss every warning sign and do their +++++ing jobs! 

A school campus cop heard the gunfire, rushed to the building but never went inside — instead waiting outside for another four agonizing minutes as Cruz continued the slaughter.

And long before Cruz embarked on the worst school shooting in Florida history, Broward Sheriff’s Office deputies had multiple warnings that the 19-year-old was a violent threat and a potential school shooter, according to records released Thursday.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201636649.html

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This asshole sheriff sat on that stage last night blasting the NRA and Dana Loesch and he knew the whole time what actually happened. He sat there and pandered to these kids and the families and he knew his department +++++ed it all up! What a colossal piece of shit that guy is. 

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26 minutes ago, mugtang said:

Deploying 1 or 2 national guard soldiers armed with M-16s to stand guard on every campus.  Also install fencing or find a way to control all entry points and exit points in a school.  That way if some asshole wants to take his AR-15 and shoot a school up he will be met with greater firepower.  This is a decision that would have to be made at the State level but I think it would be a semi-reasonable option.  It definitely would be better than expecting untrained or poorly trained teachers to deal with a threat like that.  

I think you arm only teachers that are willing to meet a training standard.  I would expect if you had 25 teachers in a school only 2-5 would want to take on that responsibility.

Even if you had a guard on the school i think a teacher with a weapon in a locked safe in their classroom would still be valuable.

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34 minutes ago, mugtang said:

Deploying 1 or 2 national guard soldiers armed with M-16s to stand guard on every campus.  Also install fencing or find a way to control all entry points and exit points in a school.  That way if some asshole wants to take his AR-15 and shoot a school up he will be met with greater firepower.  This is a decision that would have to be made at the State level but I think it would be a semi-reasonable option.  It definitely would be better than expecting untrained or poorly trained teachers to deal with a threat like that.  

You may be right. Maybe this is what it takes but it's disgusting. I hate it.

Soldiers with M-16s at my kid's elementary school. What kind of world is this?

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3 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

I think you arm only teachers that are willing to meet a training standard.  I would expect if you had 25 teachers in a school only 2-5 would want to take on that responsibility.

Even if you had a guard on the school i think a teacher with a weapon in a locked safe in their classroom would still be valuable.

Who would pay for it?  All that training?  And the weapons?  Freaking gov't won't even adequately pay for school supplies for kids to learn with, but suddenly millions are available to make schools armed camps.

It's a fantasy land.

And that doesn't even broach the subject of how difficult it is for anyone to be trained to a "standard" that would be able to take on a determined gunman with a semi-automatic weapon in a place with little to no cover like a school hallway.

The cops have to go in using military style tactics.  Teachers are going to do that?

Might as well just issue Kevlar and helmets for every student and faculty member.  They can keep those in the classrooms.  Or perhaps the kids should have to wear them from now on.  

But again, costs & reality & shit. 

Fantasy land.


They are better off having defensive weapons like those I mentioned in other threads that effectively barricade the doors. 

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BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

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4 hours ago, Rebelbacker said:

This asshole sheriff sat on that stage last night blasting the NRA and Dana Loesch and he knew the whole time what actually happened. He sat there and pandered to these kids and the families and he knew his department +++++ed it all up! What a colossal piece of shit that guy is. 

To be fair, above and beyond this particular incident, Dana Loesch and the NRA are colossal pieces of shit. 

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8 hours ago, toonkee said:

You may be right. Maybe this is what it takes but it's disgusting. I hate it.

Soldiers with M-16s at my kid's elementary school. What kind of world is this?

Soldiers with m16s is much less disgusting than 17 dead children and some feel good laws, imo.

It's a reality we obviously live in.

 

But then again I don't think you need that image. You don't need m16s to kill a lone gunman. You also don't need to be in a scary camo or police uniform to trigger all the safe space kids either.

Slacks and shirts. Concealed weapons. Multiple officees on duty and tours as, yes, if it is a prison. Yet not looking for escaping children, but for psycho killers.

5 hours ago, Boise fan said:

Who would pay for it?  All that training?  And the weapons?  Freaking gov't won't even adequately pay for school supplies for kids to learn with, but suddenly millions are available to make schools armed camps.

It's a fantasy land.

And that doesn't even broach the subject of how difficult it is for anyone to be trained to a "standard" that would be able to take on a determined gunman with a semi-automatic weapon in a place with little to no cover like a school hallway.

The cops have to go in using military style tactics.  Teachers are going to do that?

Might as well just issue Kevlar and helmets for every student and faculty member.  They can keep those in the classrooms.  Or perhaps the kids should have to wear them from now on.  

But again, costs & reality & shit. 

Fantasy land.


They are better off having defensive weapons like those I mentioned in other threads that effectively barricade the doors. 

Local law enforcement? Who are already paid to do such training. Put volunteered teachers in same training.

Tax breaks and gun advocates sponsor teachers.

I bet the NRA would love to sponsor some teachers.

It's not navy seal training bud. It's a situational training. It could be 2 weeks max. Week of range/course work. Week of scenarios/coursework.

Cops don't go in military style tactics...

I've gone through active shooter training in Las Vegas. Basic H.S. to be exact. Live sim rounds, child actors dead, injured, screaming and running. The whole 9 yards. It's +++++ing scary even when you know it's training. However there is no military tactics.

You're clearing rooms at a fast rate and running  directly to threats. You know how loud a gun is in a school hallway? Takes seconds to respond.

Also the training consists of knowing your target. You don't just shoot any person With a gun. You identify the target. What if it was a responding officer who didn't call it in? These are all factored into training.

Any gun owner with little training can do the job. Determined gunman with a "semi automatic" (words you use to make it sound scarier) exposing his location with every round shot? 

What about determined teachers who loves kids with a "semi automatic" and could come around a corner or another room at any second without any warning to a gunman?

 

Or like I said above. Trained, armed plain clothes officers. 

Funding? March for that. I'm sure our money hungry government can find it sonewhere.

 

Is it perfect? 

Nope.

 

Is it fantasyland? 

Nope.

 

Is it better than feel good do nothing legislation? 

By a +++++ing mile.

All is well, For Rice is gone.                  

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1 hour ago, BestintheWest said:

Soldiers with m16s is much less disgusting than 17 dead children and some feel good laws, imo.

It's a reality we obviously live in.

 

But then again I don't think you need that image. You don't need m16s to kill a lone gunman. You also don't need to be in a scary camo or police uniform to trigger all the safe space kids either.

Slacks and shirts. Concealed weapons. Multiple officees on duty and tours as, yes, if it is a prison. Yet not looking for escaping children, but for psycho killers.

Local law enforcement? Who are already paid to do such training. Put volunteered teachers in same training.

Tax breaks and gun advocates sponsor teachers.

I bet the NRA would love to sponsor some teachers.

It's not navy seal training bud. It's a situational training. It could be 2 weeks max. Week of range/course work. Week of scenarios/coursework.

Cops don't go in military style tactics...

I've gone through active shooter training in Las Vegas. Basic H.S. to be exact. Live sim rounds, child actors dead, injured, screaming and running. The whole 9 yards. It's +++++ing scary even when you know it's training. However there is no military tactics.

You're clearing rooms at a fast rate and running  directly to threats. You know how loud a gun is in a school hallway? Takes seconds to respond.

Also the training consists of knowing your target. You don't just shoot any person With a gun. You identify the target. What if it was a responding officer who didn't call it in? These are all factored into training.

Any gun owner with little training can do the job. Determined gunman with a "semi automatic" (words you use to make it sound scarier) exposing his location with every round shot? 

What about determined teachers who loves kids with a "semi automatic" and could come around a corner or another room at any second without any warning to a gunman?

 

Or like I said above. Trained, armed plain clothes officers. 

Funding? March for that. I'm sure our money hungry government can find it sonewhere.

 

Is it perfect? 

Nope.

 

Is it fantasyland? 

Nope.

 

Is it better than feel good do nothing legislation? 

By a +++++ing mile.

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With rare exception, shooters come from the population of kids currently in school. It seems to me an easier task for school staff to determine who the high risk kids are and design some sort of process or program that involves frequent contact, engagement and dialog with them. Help them find ways to fit in or at the very least let them know someone cares. Fellow students can help too.  Might not always ID the right kids but with enough personal interaction you have a basis for making that determination.

Not everything has to be shoot em up.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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1 hour ago, SDSUfan said:

With rare exception, shooters come from the population of kids currently in school. It seems to me an easier task for school staff to determine who the high risk kids are and design some sort of process or program that involves frequent contact, engagement and dialog with them. Help them find ways to fit in or at the very least let them know someone cares. Fellow students can help too.  Might not always ID the right kids but with enough personal interaction you have a basis for making that determination.

Not everything has to be shoot em up.

Broward County School District has 1 counselor for every 450 students. It's one of the better staffed districts in Florida.

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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12 hours ago, mugtang said:

Deploying 1 or 2 national guard soldiers armed with M-16s to stand guard on every campus.  Also install fencing or find a way to control all entry points and exit points in a school.  That way if some asshole wants to take his AR-15 and shoot a school up he will be met with greater firepower.  This is a decision that would have to be made at the State level but I think it would be a semi-reasonable option.  It definitely would be better than expecting untrained or poorly trained teachers to deal with a threat like that.  

This just makes me sad. 

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12 hours ago, mugtang said:

Deploying 1 or 2 national guard soldiers armed with M-16s to stand guard on every campus.  Also install fencing or find a way to control all entry points and exit points in a school.  That way if some asshole wants to take his AR-15 and shoot a school up he will be met with greater firepower.  This is a decision that would have to be made at the State level but I think it would be a semi-reasonable option.  It definitely would be better than expecting untrained or poorly trained teachers to deal with a threat like that.  

I think we need to look at all options.  Putting a gun in 2/3 of the hands of the teachers I had makes absolutely no sense.  There were at least a few teachers in every school I attended that would do well as an armed teacher and would probably be willing to carry that responsibility.

The World Needs More Cowboys!

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1 hour ago, BestintheWest said:

Don't watch the office much so not sure what this means.

Office joke aside, although I disagree with many of your premises and how simple they would be to employ, I do agree that it's "better than feel good do nothing legislation."

 

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