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qwelish

Will UNLV go 0pher?

Will UNLV go 0pher?  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Will UNLV finish the season 0-5 (already 0-2)

    • 0-5
      7
    • 1-4
      14
    • 2-3
      8
    • 3-2
      3


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Simple as the fact that fans want to see a winner. VGK are winning and RR are not. This current edition of the Runnin' Rebels under Marv hasn't proved anything yet. Worse season in history in year one. Great recruiting class and start to the 2nd year although it was against probably the weakest schedule in a very long time. Then sometime around Thanksgiving things start to slip and then slide and then just plain and simple suck. 

2 months later we see a change in effort and attitude along with on court results in several good wins only to be followed by the 2nd worse loss in school history and then being owned at home by Fresno. What is anybody to think. Not a damn thing at this point. I believe that there are 1,000's of RR fans that have moved to Missouri and won't be coming back until there are continuous and proven results. That has nothing to do with the VGK just like Raider football won't affect Rebel football. Win and the people will show up. Lose and you're on your own. There are over 2 million people in the valley so finding 15,00 to 20,000 to come watch a winning team isn't that difficult. 

When and if UNLV decides to commit to do what is necessary to build a winning competitive program, the fans will be there to fill the seats. Until then it will look like what it looks like. If you keep doing what your doing then you'll keep getting what your getting.

While on this subject we let Kruger go for the want of more money. Cronin and Beard for basically the same reason no matter how people want to rationalize it. Now they are all leading nationally ranked programs with full arenas. I would bet that the financial portion of those decisions were downright double dumb.

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2 hours ago, SharkTanked said:

Which was always going to be the case, especially when you are competing against one of the greatest stories in all of sports. But you seemed to be drawing the conclusion that UNLV should be nervous about that. I believe UNLV's attendance woes are entirely separate from VGK. It has been an ongoing issue the last few years (before VGK), and its getting worse because the team continues to underperform. At lunch just now I was listening to the sports radio, and they were interviewing Mike Grimala, local UNLV beat writer about this very topic. He agreed that the VGK fanbase and UNLV fanbase are two entirely different groups. He also said that the attendance woes are fans just fed up with empty promises from UNLV. He reasoned that the fans don't trust the program anymore and the program needs to prove itself. I think there is some truth to that.

-UNLV hires Dave Rice, who preaches a return to the Runnin' glory days, getting fans all lathered up. He never delivers and flames out spectacularly, getting fired mid season.

-UNLV fans are led to believe that UNLV will be in a better position for the next hire because they are so far ahead of the pack. Rumors swirl about Pitino, Dixon, Cronin... meanwhile the AD is essentially conducting the process in public by jabbering to the media throughout. Players leave.

-Finally they settle on Beard. The BoR meeting is a circus with Regents threatening to basically overstep their bounds to make political statements. Rumors swirl that UNLV did not prepare Beard for this show and he is ticked. After meeting with Beard, all our players leave but one. Beard bolts to TTU just over 1 week later.

-Enter Menzies who has no team and has to build from scratch. He is a coach who is a disappointment to fans after having been led along by the AD. AD gets fired.

-On top of that UNLV spends money to redesign our logo with zero input from the fans and it is the most hideous creation ever. Despite the backlash, the tone deaf President says full speed ahead on the logo while the new AD tries to bury it like the trash it is.

So Grimala's point was that there exists a covenant between sports program and fanbase. UNLV has not lived up to its end of the bargain. The fans are pissed and it is going to take awhile for them to come back. This is only exacerbated by the wildly poor performances this season, when they were expected to at least take a decent step forward from last season.

I heard the radio spot as well, but I think Graney is, as always, a little too impressed with his own opinion without listening to anybody else.  There most certainly is some overlap between Knights and Rebels fans.  No way is that the main cause of the attendance woes but it doesn't help. Graney, and to a lesser extent Grimala, were talking about how the price points don't overlap and you're not attracting the same consumer.  I believe that is true for walk-up balcony ticket sales  but the lower bowl for the T&M is 90% season ticket holders and many of those people are upper-middle class and can afford to choose between the Knights and the Rebels on a given night. "Normal" attendance would see the lower bowl pretty full and the total amount of butts in seats depended on how many balcony walk-ups you'd get. But now, it's the lower bowl, season ticket holders that aren't showing up. They're having more fun somewhere else but you can't re-fill those seats.They're already sold. That's why attendance is announced at 9.5k but there's 4k in the building.

Anyway, I find this constant harping on the attendance by the media unhelpful. Bitching about it and begging people to come out isn't worth much either. The only thing you can do about it is win win win. 

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7 minutes ago, toonkee said:

I heard the radio spot as well, but I think Graney is, as always, a little too impressed with his own opinion without listening to anybody else.  There most certainly is some overlap between Knights and Rebels fans.  No way is that the main cause of the attendance woes but it doesn't help. Graney, and to a lesser extent Grimala, were talking about how the price points don't overlap and you're not attracting the same consumer.  I believe that is true for walk-up balcony ticket sales  but the lower bowl for the T&M is 90% season ticket holders and many of those people are upper-middle class and can afford to choose between the Knights and the Rebels on a given night. "Normal" attendance would see the lower bowl pretty full and the total amount of butts in seats depended on how many balcony walk-ups you'd get. But now, it's the lower bowl, season ticket holders that aren't showing up. They're having more fun somewhere else but you can't re-fill those seats.They're already sold. That's why attendance is announced at 9.5k but there's 4k in the building.

Anyway, I find this constant harping on the attendance by the media unhelpful. Bitching about it and begging people to come out isn't worth much either. The only thing you can do about it is win win win. 

There may be some overlap but it seems to be nominal. The lower bowl has been an issue all season, they still sold a normal amount of those tickets, and this was the only time a VGK home game was in the same time slot, so you can't really argue that VGK is having much of an impact. They may be choosing to do something else, but that something else is not going to a VGK game if there is not one to go to.

I think people are mostly just sick of watching season after season of teams crap the bed. It's not entertaining.

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Just now, SharkTanked said:

There may be some overlap but it seems to be nominal. The lower bowl has been an issue all season, they still sold a normal amount of those tickets, and this was the only time a VGK home game was in the same time slot, so you can't really argue that VGK is having much of an impact. They may be choosing to do something else, but that something else is not going to a VGK game if there is not one to go to.

I think people are mostly just sick of watching teams crap the bed. It's not entertaining.

Games may not have been in the same time slot but there are only so many hours in the week.

My made up quote from a typical Las Vegan with a household income over 150k..."There's two Rebel games and two Knights games this week, plus the kids have soccer practice and I have to work a few late nights. Rebels suck so they're going on the back burner."

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46 minutes ago, toonkee said:

Games may not have been in the same time slot but there are only so many hours in the week.

My made up quote from a typical Las Vegan with a household income over 150k..."There's two Rebel games and two Knights games this week, plus the kids have soccer practice and I have to work a few late nights. Rebels suck so they're going on the back burner."

You could be right. I don't think there is a way to really track the impact, but if UNLV was winning and had a shot at an At-Large or near rankings, then I think we'd have a better gauge.

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7 hours ago, slappy said:

I have said from the beginning they could not finish above .500 this year in the MW so I have to pull for 0-3 to finish.  I do like this young team though.

I think they have done as good as they could have. Flirting with a top half finish in the mw is a positive sign.  If everything falls right in the future they might contend for a mw title.  

"but we only lost to Stanford by 3."

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16 hours ago, toonkee said:

I heard the radio spot as well, but I think Graney is, as always, a little too impressed with his own opinion without listening to anybody else.  There most certainly is some overlap between Knights and Rebels fans.  No way is that the main cause of the attendance woes but it doesn't help. Graney, and to a lesser extent Grimala, were talking about how the price points don't overlap and you're not attracting the same consumer.  I believe that is true for walk-up balcony ticket sales  but the lower bowl for the T&M is 90% season ticket holders and many of those people are upper-middle class and can afford to choose between the Knights and the Rebels on a given night. "Normal" attendance would see the lower bowl pretty full and the total amount of butts in seats depended on how many balcony walk-ups you'd get. But now, it's the lower bowl, season ticket holders that aren't showing up. They're having more fun somewhere else but you can't re-fill those seats.They're already sold. That's why attendance is announced at 9.5k but there's 4k in the building.

Anyway, I find this constant harping on the attendance by the media unhelpful. Bitching about it and begging people to come out isn't worth much either. The only thing you can do about it is win win win. 

To be fair, lower bowl season ticket holders weren’t there last year, before the knights, either. 

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1 hour ago, 4UNLV said:

To be fair, lower bowl season ticket holders weren’t there last year, before the knights, either. 

Yes, but we were heinously worse last year. Worst season in UNLV history. This is hopefully a 20+ win team.

In any case I'm sure we all agree that going to the T&M to watch the Rebels lose is no fun and in the end that's why people aren't showing up. 

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Some interesting stats in here. 

Diong is in 3 of the 5 best lineups, including the best 2 lineups. Diong does not appear at Center in any significant Negative +/- lineup.

Mooring, Clyburn, Diong is core of 3 of the 5 best line ups, including the two best +/- line ups. Mooring, Clyburn, Diong do not appear in a single Negative +/- lineup.

Diong and McCoy should not play together.

Mooring is in 7 of the 8 positive +/- lineups. Juiston and Johnson are next at 6 of 8 positive +/- lineups. Hardy, Clyburn and McCoy are in 5 of 8 positive +/- lineups. 

Juiston, Clyburn and Mooring are in 5 of the top 6 +/- lineups.

Clyburn and Beck are great together with Diong, but do not play them together with McCoy.

Johnson, Mooring, Hardy, Beck, Diong has not played enough to make the list. I would like to see that line up a lot.

 

What do you think about these stats? Does Menzies see these stats?

image.png

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