Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Mano

So, what do you think of the death penalty?

Do you favor the death penalty?  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you favor the death penalty?



Recommended Posts

Are there criminals that deserve to die? Yes. BUt should we as a society do it? I say no. It is no deterrent to other criminals, it is a revenge killing and as a society we should be above it.

I always see people ask" What if it was your kid/wife/parents?(who were murdered) Wouldn't you want the killer dead?" Your god damn right I would but that doesn't mean that society should grant my wishes for revenge.

 

And that is if we would know 100% that we are only convicting the guilty and there is no overall bias in convictions, which we know isn't the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, thelawlorfaithful said:

I’m opposed to the conviction.

So? You could always Socrates his ass

12 hours ago, misplacedcowboy said:

I think it's morally wrong that my taxes go to paying to keep inmates clothed and fed for life.

Just kidding. But for that argument, I wonder how much it costs to complete an execution (including all the appeals, etc.) in terms of years of imprisonment?

I think it is more. Appeals are not cheap.

15 hours ago, sebasour said:

I'm against killing someone who's no longer a threat, it doesn't accomplish anything.

 

That said the Boston Bomber did give me a bit of pause. The guy is only a month older than me and truth be told if I was facing spending the next 50 or so years in a super max prison with zero chance of ever getting out just kinda waiting to die, I think the death penalty would start to sound appealing. I'd be kind of okay with allowing people serving life to opt into it.

I like that idea in theory but in practice, I feel like there would be coercion.

Besides... part of their sentence is the fact that they just have to sit there waiting to die, I think.

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This article probably won't make a difference to those who are all gung ho in support state-sanctioned murder but it's a good read for anyone else:

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/alabama-likely-botch-execution-already-163930699.html 

bsu_retro_bsu_logo_helmet.b_1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does Buzzfeed actually do investigative journalism? Apparently so. Neat article/story about how this reporter uncovered the source of Missouri's lethal execution drugs; the extreme and probably illegal process the state undertook to obtain the drugs.

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/21/587731723/buzzfeed-news-uncovers-source-of-missouris-lethal-drugs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m OK with it but only in cases where there’s indisputable and undeniable proof of guilt (not “evidence” per se but video, picture, multiple independent eye witness accounts, etc.)...  for example, this latest school shooting?  I have no problem if that kid is executed.

v0icAvfW.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, sebasour said:

I'm against killing someone who's no longer a threat, it doesn't accomplish anything.

 

That said the Boston Bomber did give me a bit of pause. The guy is only a month older than me and truth be told if I was facing spending the next 50 or so years in a super max prison with zero chance of ever getting out just kinda waiting to die, I think the death penalty would start to sound appealing. I'd be kind of okay with allowing people serving life to opt into it.

I said earlier, I'm against it overall, but I always think "Why should we support this person with taxpayer funds given their cost on society that put them in this position"

Image result for jim mcmahon with lavell edwardsImage result for byu logoImage result for byu boise state end zone hail maryc07489bb8bb7f5bad3672877f8b04f34.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Jack Bauer said:

I said earlier, I'm against it overall, but I always think "Why should we support this person with taxpayer funds given their cost on society that put them in this position"

Not that you're saying this but I don't think we want to live in a society where the state determines whether you live or die depending on how much it costs in dollars. 

bsu_retro_bsu_logo_helmet.b_1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’m OK with it but only in cases where there’s indisputable and undeniable proof of guilt (not “evidence” per se but video, picture, multiple independent eye witness accounts, etc.)...  for example, this latest school shooting?  I have no problem if that kid is executed.

Who is the judge of what is indisputable and undeniable guilt, though? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, tspoke said:

Are there criminals that deserve to die? Yes. BUt should we as a society do it? I say no. It is no deterrent to other criminals, it is a revenge killing and as a society we should be above it.

I always see people ask" What if it was your kid/wife/parents?(who were murdered) Wouldn't you want the killer dead?" Your god damn right I would but that doesn't mean that society should grant my wishes for revenge.

 

And that is if we would know 100% that we are only convicting the guilty and there is no overall bias in convictions, which we know isn't the case.

Good post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Not that you're saying this but I don't think we want to live in a society where the state determines whether you live or die depending on how much it costs in dollars. 

Aren't they doing that with ACA & Medicare cuts?  Won't that inevitably lead to preventable deaths?  And the only factor determining it is $$$.

51t4uwlffaL._SL160_SS150_.jpg324804241_0b7c67b2af_m.jpg

BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm 100% against the death penalty... which is a complete reversal from what my beliefs were until about 10 years ago. The main thing that caused me to change my mind was reading The Innocent Man by John Grisham, which is a non-fiction book that tells the story of the wrongful conviction of Ron Williamson, and the lengths the police and authorities in Oklahoma went to in order to secure a death penalty verdict against a man that didn't even commit the crime. It also goes into the stories of three other men from the same area in Oklahoma who were also wrongfully convicted and sentenced to death for crimes that they didn't commit.

Around the same time, I also learned about the West Memphis Three, who had their civil rights trampled in an attempt to convict them of brutal child murders --- mishandled evidence, lack of a true investigation by the coroner, destruction of the crime scene. All three of them served lengthy prison sentences before they were eventually released after signing agreements that stated there was (supposedly) enough evidence to convict them, but maintaining their innocence. They weren't ever sentenced to death, but they were imprisoned for nearly 20 years before being released and then re-sentenced to time served. 

Aside from those cases, I just don't believe that we have the moral authority to determine who lives and who dies. It's not about "bringing closure" to the families of the victims, it's about a satiating a societal bloodthirst for retribution. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, tspoke said:

Are there criminals that deserve to die? Yes. BUt should we as a society do it? I say no. It is no deterrent to other criminals, it is a revenge killing and as a society we should be above it.

I always see people ask" What if it was your kid/wife/parents?(who were murdered) Wouldn't you want the killer dead?" Your god damn right I would but that doesn't mean that society should grant my wishes for revenge.

 

And that is if we would know 100% that we are only convicting the guilty and there is no overall bias in convictions, which we know isn't the case.

What about Ted Bundy?  Tex Watson?  Jeffrey Dahmer? Can't remember his name but the Green River Killer?  The brother who committed the Boston bombing?

If capital punishment is being done as a deterrent, I agree with you.  Wasted effort.  But if it's punishment for the crime they committed, and the evidence isn't circumstantial, then why not?

The burden of proof would have to be high, but there's a place for it imo.

51t4uwlffaL._SL160_SS150_.jpg324804241_0b7c67b2af_m.jpg

BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

Aren't they doing that with ACA & Medicare cuts?  Won't that inevitably lead to preventable deaths?  And the only factor determining it is $$$.

Come on man. We can do better than make that same old tired argument. Just because you are against the ACA doesn't mean you want people to die. You and I mostly agree on policy, but state-sanctioned murder and health insurance systems are wholly different issues. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, NVGiant said:

Come on man. We can do better than make that same old tired argument. Just because you are against the ACA doesn't mean you want people to die. You and I mostly agree on policy, but state-sanctioned murder and health insurance systems are wholly different issues. 

I'm not saying that - I don't think people want others to die.  It's collateral damage in the mad effort to save money by taking things away from those who have no special interest groups throwing money at politicians. 

I was responding to his general statement about a society where the state may determine life or death by $$$.  I think this applies.

51t4uwlffaL._SL160_SS150_.jpg324804241_0b7c67b2af_m.jpg

BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

Aren't they doing that with ACA & Medicare cuts?  Won't that inevitably lead to preventable deaths?  And the only factor determining it is $$$.

Way to stay on topic there Comrade fan. :) 

bsu_retro_bsu_logo_helmet.b_1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The death penalty solves no problems. It doesn't deter crime. It doesn't save money. And it might actually do more harm than good. Not just because of the much-too-high-risk of executing someone who is innocent, or because it might violate the 8th Amendment (I know that SCOTUS says it does not), but because it perpetuates a cycle of violence. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Boise fan said:

What about Ted Bundy?  Tex Watson?  Jeffrey Dahmer? Can't remember his name but the Green River Killer?  The brother who committed the Boston bombing?

If capital punishment is being done as a deterrent, I agree with you.  Wasted effort.  But if it's punishment for the crime they committed, and the evidence isn't circumstantial, then why not?

The burden of proof would have to be high, but there's a place for it imo.

Do those people deserve to die? Sure. BUt should we do it is the question. And I still say no. It is about our society more than it is about the convicted. If killing doesn't serve a greater good(self-defense, preventing harm from coming to others, etc.) then I believe killing is wrong. And I don't see anything good coming from executing those men other than it feels good for revenge. Just separate them from society and leave them in a cell till they die. You asked "Why Not?" but I think we need a better reason to kill someone than "Why not" I think we need a pretty good answer to the question "Why"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, tspoke said:

Do those people deserve to die? Sure. BUt should we do it is the question. And I still say no. It is about our society more than it is about the convicted. If killing doesn't serve a greater good(self-defense, preventing harm from coming to others, etc.) then I believe killing is wrong. And I don't see anything good coming from executing those men other than it feels good for revenge. Just separate them from society and leave them in a cell till they die. You asked "Why Not?" but I think we need a better reason to kill someone than "Why not" I think we need a pretty good answer to the question "Why"

 

I understand your points.  And I respect your position.

My feelings are that some people who commit heinous crimes should be punished by death.  Any punishment is a form of retribution.  It feels good to punish those who harm others. That is a byproduct of justice. Yes confinement is a punishment that serves the greater good.  Probably moreso than capital punishment.  But capital punishment does have its place,imo.  There are some criminals whose crimes are so heinous that it would serve the greater good to be rid of them once and for all.   When they hang around for decades, many influence others via communications and can even have fan bases.  In fact I don't think there is a serial killer behind bars that doesn't have a fan base.  Many may manipulate the legal system frivolously in order to "make a statement", or just to harass.  Some have even contacted their victims or victims families to torment them. That doesn't serve the greater good.

The current state of the justice system doesn't warrant having capital punishment being enforced.  There are too many who have either been wrongly convicted or convicted on tenuous evidence to make the system work as it should.  But that is systemic, and applies to all terms of incarceration. The US is in love with locking people up.  Partly because prosecutors and law enforcement are pressured for "results" which amount to number of convictions.  A lot of sloppy and even criminal behavior occurs in this quest.  The true goal should be justice. That's been forgotten in many instances.  

Until the US cleans up its justice and legal system, I'm against capital punishment.  But if things were operating as they should, and the burden of proof in a capital punishment case was as it should be instead of what it currently is, then I would be in favor of capital punishment.

 

 

51t4uwlffaL._SL160_SS150_.jpg324804241_0b7c67b2af_m.jpg

BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...