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mysfit

Has the Eunuch in Chief met his match?

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3 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

The problem is there is no compromising with emotional cripples Boise fan, Jackmoron and that ilk.  They will say they just want to pass limited laws but they minute they pass those laws.  They will want more.  Boise Fan will be waiting with bated breath for another school shooting so he can fight to take more of our rights.

They cannot be trusted because emotions not logic rule their crippled minds.  Not to mention passing laws and expecting tapeworms to do the job correctly is just idiotic.   About 75% of the recent shooters should have been prevented by current law but tapeworm incompetence let them through anyway.

We need to fix mental health system.  There basically is no system to identify troubled teens other than parents doing their job.  Parents are not always capable or aware of the problems and to be honest many don't care.  We need a mental health system in the schools to help these kids and reduce suicides and help them succeed in school as well as identify dangerous kids.  I read somewhere there is an average of 1 phycologist for every 1400 students in high school in this country.  I don't think there are any in Nevada.   We need to have that number  to be lower and members of both sex need to be represented and it needs to be implemented in every school.  It would improve performance, lower drop out rates and lower suicide rates at the very least.

We need to end gun free zones.  These shootings don't happen anywhere else.  No kid attacks a police station or a courthouse for a reason someone is going to shoot back.

The press needs to stop glorifying school shootings.  Now I wouldn't limit the first amendment but just like us who responsibly use the 2nd amendment.  The media needs to police itself, they have made school shootings into a thing that guarantees you becoming famous.  

I see no chance of this happening. With the 24/7 news cycle they need content and this gives them that. The old adage if it bleeds it leads is never more true than now. 

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6 hours ago, AndroidAggie said:

it seems like a no brainer to me.  lots of countries have free basic care and private care if you want to afford it as well.  i get that it's not a magic solution to everyone's healthcare problems but it'd - pardon the pun - cure a lot of ills.

Let me ask you this theoretical question. In a negotiation scenario, would you be willing to remove any additional gun bans control measures from your wish list if the other side was willing to agree to single payer universal health care that included comprehensive and adequately funded mental health programs? 

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4 hours ago, bluerules009 said:

The problem is there is no compromising with emotional cripples Boise fan, Jackmoron and that ilk.  They will say they just want to pass limited laws but they minute they pass those laws.  They will want more.  Boise Fan will be waiting with bated breath for another school shooting so he can fight to take more of our rights.

They cannot be trusted because emotions not logic rule their crippled minds.  Not to mention passing laws and expecting tapeworms to do the job correctly is just idiotic.   About 75% of the recent shooters should have been prevented by current law but tapeworm incompetence let them through anyway.

We need to fix mental health system.  There basically is no system to identify troubled teens other than parents doing their job.  Parents are not always capable or aware of the problems and to be honest many don't care.  We need a mental health system in the schools to help these kids and reduce suicides and help them succeed in school as well as identify dangerous kids.  I read somewhere there is an average of 1 phycologist for every 1400 students in high school in this country.  I don't think there are any in Nevada.   We need to have that number  to be lower and members of both sex need to be represented and it needs to be implemented in every school.  It would improve performance, lower drop out rates and lower suicide rates at the very least.

We need to end gun free zones.  These shootings don't happen anywhere else.  No kid attacks a police station or a courthouse for a reason someone is going to shoot back.

The press needs to stop glorifying school shootings.  Now I wouldn't limit the first amendment but just like us who responsibly use the 2nd amendment.  The media needs to police itself, they have made school shootings into a thing that guarantees you becoming famous.  

I agree with regard to authoritarians like Comrade fan, jack and the DNC, and civil war hysteria types like sactowndog but I'd be willing to have a dialog with some more rational folks like Old SD Dude, Android Aggie, renoskier, and SharkTanked. 

Regarding the mental health system, we not only need a systematic overhaul but also a cultural shift in how we approach identification, treatment, and rehabilitation. First off, there's such a negative stigma attached to depression, deviant thought patterns, confused perception of reality, social awkwardness, etc. that we as a society treat these symptoms punitively with ridicule, social shunning, bullying, and even legal punishment. In my opinion, society at large, the health system, and the justice system all need to rethink how we deal with mental health at the very initial stages of when an individual starts to reveal signs that something is off. Rather than punishing the individual, begin an early stage treatment program that helps the individual cope with their thoughts, feelings, and potentially awkward situations as well as equipping care givers with the knowledge and skills to both assist and progress the individual through formative life stages ... while lastly, enabling both the health and justice system to work together to prevent or at least mitigate deviant or horrific acts ahead of time without treating the individual as a freak or criminal. This approach doesn't just apply to mass shooters but also potential violent abusers, rapists, molesters, serial killers, and other sociopaths -- all of which usually demonstrate signs of deviant behavior well in advance of their initial acts. While it may not be possible to completely cure people of their thoughts and urges, perhaps we as a society can do a better job of helping them to control their behavior and "stay in bounds" if you will. 

With regard to gun free zones, I agree. On press glorification, it is what it is and there's really nothing we can do about it in a free society. I do agree that the media should police itself but unfortunately sensationalism increases viewership. 

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2 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Let me ask you this theoretical question. In a negotiation scenario, would you be willing to remove any additional gun bans control measures from your wish list if the other side was willing to agree to single payer universal health care that included comprehensive and adequately funded mental health programs? 

You mis-characterize my argument. The strike thru of the term 'ban' and the term 'wish list': I have never advocated for a ban nor do I have a wish list.

So to answer your question: sure, whatever. If that's what you want from me, then fine. I'm AndroidAggie, I can't wait to take away rights and duke on a bunch of amendments.

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2 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

You mis-characterize my argument. The strike thru of the term 'ban' and the term 'wish list': I have never advocated for a ban nor do I have a wish list.

So to answer your question: sure, whatever. If that's what you want from me, then fine. I'm AndroidAggie, I can't wait to take away rights and duke on a bunch of amendments.

Calm down chief. I was saying that tongue in cheek. Read what I posted almost immediately after that.

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6 minutes ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Calm down chief. I was saying that tongue in cheek. Read what I posted almost immediately after that.

What answer could I possibly give you other than faux capitulation? 

I have said that a logical 'first step' is fully funded mental health medical care. As in, no attempt at gun control attached. Mental health care funding from the tax payer and delivered to the people via the government is a good idea that stands on its own independent of gun control. Your question to me has no answer because I haven't advocated for those two things at all, let alone as a bargaining chip to get mental health care money. 

You have an interesting way of asking questions of those you esteem to be rational. 

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13 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

What answer could I possibly give you other than faux capitulation? 

That my pee pee is bigger than yours.

13 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

I have said that a logical 'first step' is fully funded mental health medical care. As in, no attempt at gun control attached. Mental health care funding from the tax payer and delivered to the people via the government is a good idea that stands on its own independent of gun control. Your question to me has no answer because I haven't advocated for those two things at all, let alone as a bargaining chip to get mental health care money. 

I'm one of those that sees a desperate need for mental health care in the US as even aside from mass shootings, we've got a shitton of baggage that we as a nation are not adequately addressing. Even as a libertarian, I would support legislation to raise taxes in order to better fund, treat, and manage mental health, even if that includes universal coverage. The only thing is I still believe people should have the ability to choose their own physician. @Jack Bauer may have some interesting insights or suggestions here.

13 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

You have an interesting way of asking questions of those you esteem to be rational. 

I've been accused of a lot of things on the MWCBoard but I don't think boring is among them. 

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14 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

I agree with regard to authoritarians like Comrade fan, jack and the DNC, and civil war hysteria types like sactowndog but I'd be willing to have a dialog with some more rational folks like Old SD Dude, Android Aggie, renoskier, and SharkTanked. 

Regarding the mental health system, we not only need a systematic overhaul but also a cultural shift in how we approach identification, treatment, and rehabilitation. First off, there's such a negative stigma attached to depression, deviant thought patterns, confused perception of reality, social awkwardness, etc. that we as a society treat these symptoms punitively with ridicule, social shunning, bullying, and even legal punishment. In my opinion, society at large, the health system, and the justice system all need to rethink how we deal with mental health at the very initial stages of when an individual starts to reveal signs that something is off. Rather than punishing the individual, begin an early stage treatment program that helps the individual cope with their thoughts, feelings, and potentially awkward situations as well as equipping care givers with the knowledge and skills to both assist and progress the individual through formative life stages ... while lastly, enabling both the health and justice system to work together to prevent or at least mitigate deviant or horrific acts ahead of time without treating the individual as a freak or criminal. This approach doesn't just apply to mass shooters but also potential violent abusers, rapists, molesters, serial killers, and other sociopaths -- all of which usually demonstrate signs of deviant behavior well in advance of their initial acts. While it may not be possible to completely cure people of their thoughts and urges, perhaps we as a society can do a better job of helping them to control their behavior and "stay in bounds" if you will. 

With regard to gun free zones, I agree. On press glorification, it is what it is and there's really nothing we can do about it in a free society. I do agree that the media should police itself but unfortunately sensationalism increases viewership. 

I certainly agree with the mental health aspect. As for media coverage, perhaps proper mental health treatment will curb that glorification desire (except in the case of POTUS maybe).

Part of the problem we will have with this, as a society, is that it is likely a permanent on-going treatment. We as Americans want to fix a problem and declare someone "cured." Is the country ready to pay for a life-long level of treatment for some people? Additionally, in some cases it has to be compulsory. People of a certain psychosis will have to be labeled a "clear and present danger to society" without treatment (maybe even WITH treatment?). That gets into dangerous authoritarian territory, does it not? Further, what do we do when a potentially (rather than clearly) dangerous person refuses treatment?

I guess like anything the devil is in the details.

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14 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

Let me ask you this theoretical question. In a negotiation scenario, would you be willing to remove any additional gun bans control measures from your wish list if the other side was willing to agree to single payer universal health care that included comprehensive and adequately funded mental health programs? 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/history-of-gun-control-legislation/2012/12/22/80c8d624-4ad3-11e2-9a42-d1ce6d0ed278_story.html?utm_term=.afa7fd46fad6

Since we have had zero new gun control legislation passed since the Brady bill 25 years ago, sure, that would be great. May not fix much as far as gun violence goes, but at least everyone would have health care.

I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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The overwhelming majority of people suffering from mental health issues are not a threat to others, just themselves. So no, I would not trade gun control for health.

 

Both are needed.

 

Being socially maladjusted, is that really mental health? Is lacking empathy mental health? I don't believe we understand the motivations and root cause for mass shootings yet. Certainly in some cases there have been red flags but many people have the same red flags without becoming mass murderers. 

 

I was reading how serial killers have actual changes in their brain scans with low activity in impulse control areas, high activity in emotional response areas. In individuals with this predisposition their early life environment was the determining factor on future actions like becoming a serial killer. Nurture AND nature play a role. Most mass killers are not captured alive, we don't know much in terms of the physiology.

One of the Final Five..........

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11 minutes ago, Mano said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/history-of-gun-control-legislation/2012/12/22/80c8d624-4ad3-11e2-9a42-d1ce6d0ed278_story.html?utm_term=.afa7fd46fad6

Since we have had zero new gun control legislation passed since the Brady bill 25 years ago, sure, that would be great. May not fix much as far as gun violence goes, but at least everyone would have health care.

Hey at least all the wounded wouldn't go bankrupt or have to depend on GoFundMe for their hospital/rehab bills!

Progress!

 

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BCS is to Football what Fox News is to Journalism

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1 hour ago, mysfit said:

The overwhelming majority of people suffering from mental health issues are not a threat to others, just themselves. So no, I would not trade gun control for health.

 

Both are needed.

 

Being socially maladjusted, is that really mental health? Is lacking empathy mental health? I don't believe we understand the motivations and root cause for mass shootings yet. Certainly in some cases there have been red flags but many people have the same red flags without becoming mass murderers. 

 

I was reading how serial killers have actual changes in their brain scans with low activity in impulse control areas, high activity in emotional response areas. In individuals with this predisposition their early life environment was the determining factor on future actions like becoming a serial killer. Nurture AND nature play a role. Most mass killers are not captured alive, we don't know much in terms of the physiology.

I saw an article in the SL Trib today, quoting mental health professionals saying the problem with mass shootings is easy access to guns.

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24 minutes ago, jackmormon said:

I saw an article in the SL Trib today, quoting mental health professionals saying the problem with mass shootings is easy access to guns.

Easy access to guns no doubt helps facilitate things, but what is the underlying issue in the person who decides to act?

One of the Final Five..........

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And add social media to the list. It offers notoriety and fame to those seeking it. Feelings of inadequacy, competition, lack of inclusion/respect combined with easy access to guns and fame on social media.

 

Is our society really that toxic?

 

 

One of the Final Five..........

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