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Tim Duryea - hot seat?

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Guest #1Stunner
22 minutes ago, ProvoAggie said:

Our biggest obstacle right now is that we hired a crap coach. We had an athletic director that was on his way out and just hired the first warm body that he saw.

There is a good coach right up the road at Weber State.  Not sure if USU wants him though.

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38 minutes ago, ProvoAggie said:

Our biggest obstacle right now is that we hired a crap coach. We had an athletic director that was on his way out and just hired the first warm body that he saw.

I think most fans say that.  

Crap coach   

But when You look at your roster you likely see crap talent as well.  It takes a lot of infrastructure money and time to start landing quality kids.

To compete in the WAC for a title you can find lots of kids that might of slipped through the cracks of other higher programs.  To compete in the MW you will find less of these kids that are good enough to actually compete at the top of this conference.  To compete in the PAC even less and so on.  Finding the over looked hard nosed kid ( or religiously determined kid ) will only take a program so far.  Eventually you have to go out and win some recruiting battles against The PAC and top MW programs.  My gut feeling is that your recruiting hasn't caught up yet.  The difficult thing is that it is not as simple as saying crap coach.  

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Wow, I never thought I would see the day when Aggie football would be considered by people on the outside as an asset to the conference but Aggie hoops as something that will struggle. Aggie basketball was sort of our identity and calling card. It's success was the main reason we were ever in the conversation for inclusion in the MWC. Behind UNLV, USU has arguably the most impressive program history in the conference. They are currently tied with UNLV for the most NCAA tourney appearances but have struggled mightily since the 2012-13 season (yes, the Aggies were 21-10 that season but that was struggling compared to previous years and also given the insanely poor competition that was left in the WAC that year). The struggle has continued, due in large part to an inept coach. I'm not really buying the budget argument seeing that Nevada has a smaller budget than USU and yet they find themselves at the top of the standings. I do agree it is an athlete/talent issue right now- but doesn't that point back to the crappy coach? Is it not his responsibility to evaluate and bring in talent? It may seem a bit harsh to some on the outside looking in and say 3 years is too short of a time to put his guys in place but you have to remember that Duryea was an assistant under Stew for 14 years and was already a part of the last few years of Stew's tenure when things really started to fall apart. This is part of the reason that nearly every Aggie fan (outside of Duryea's family and a couple of former players) didn't want to see him hired.

This Aggie team would be clobbered by pretty much any Aggie team from 2000-2011 so from that stand point, maybe Aggie fans are living in the past. It does suck watching Nevada, the team you essentially dethroned as king of the WAC, now establish themselves as a competitor in the MWC while the best the Aggies have been able to do in 5 years of membership is 4th place (2014-15). I don't think it would hurt as much if we didn't know what the possibilities are with the other factors such as The Spectrum and now the new Estes basketball Center in place. We just need a coach with some vision and fire and the ability to recruit and Aggie fans would get behind this team.

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50 minutes ago, TrueAg said:

Wow, I never thought I would see the day when Aggie football would be considered by people on the outside as an asset to the conference but Aggie hoops as something that will struggle. Aggie basketball was sort of our identity and calling card. It's success was the main reason we were ever in the conversation for inclusion in the MWC. Behind UNLV, USU has arguably the most impressive program history in the conference. They are currently tied with UNLV for the most NCAA tourney appearances but have struggled mightily since the 2012-13 season (yes, the Aggies were 21-10 that season but that was struggling compared to previous years and also given the insanely poor competition that was left in the WAC that year). The struggle has continued, due in large part to an inept coach. I'm not really buying the budget argument seeing that Nevada has a smaller budget than USU and yet they find themselves at the top of the standings. I do agree it is an athlete/talent issue right now- but doesn't that point back to the crappy coach? Is it not his responsibility to evaluate and bring in talent? It may seem a bit harsh to some on the outside looking in and say 3 years is too short of a time to put his guys in place but you have to remember that Duryea was an assistant under Stew for 14 years and was already a part of the last few years of Stew's tenure when things really started to fall apart. This is part of the reason that nearly every Aggie fan (outside of Duryea's family and a couple of former players) didn't want to see him hired.

This Aggie team would be clobbered by pretty much any Aggie team from 2000-2011 so from that stand point, maybe Aggie fans are living in the past. It does suck watching Nevada, the team you essentially dethroned as king of the WAC, now establish themselves as a competitor in the MWC while the best the Aggies have been able to do in 5 years of membership is 4th place (2014-15). I don't think it would hurt as much if we didn't know what the possibilities are with the other factors such as The Spectrum and now the new Estes basketball Center in place. We just need a coach with some vision and fire and the ability to recruit and Aggie fans would get behind this team.

I agree with everything you said with one exception- USUs basketball history is a lot less impressive than a few other programs when you consider our last tourney win was close to two decades ago. SDSU and UNM have had recent tourney success. USU has lots of tourney appearances, very few wins. Our last appearance was in 2011 too so it’s not all that recent either. This supports the premise that USU was only good because we were in a lesser conference. 

There are only two things I can't stand in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. 

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33 minutes ago, madmartigan said:

I agree with everything you said with one exception- USUs basketball history is a lot less impressive than a few other programs when you consider our last tourney win was close to two decades ago. SDSU and UNM have had recent tourney success. USU has lots of tourney appearances, very few wins. Our last appearance was in 2011 too so it’s not all that recent either. This supports the premise that USU was only good because we were in a lesser conference. 

Agreed. That is why I said "arguably" - SDSU's recent success has been impressive.

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4 hours ago, TrueAg said:

 It's success was the main reason we were ever in the conversation for inclusion in the MWC.

 

Behind UNLV, USU has arguably the most impressive program history in the conference.

 

 I do agree it is an athlete/talent issue right now- but doesn't that point back to the crappy coach? Is it not his responsibility to evaluate and bring in talent?

 

No. you were invited out of necessity.   Basketball was not the reason. 

 

No. Nobody would consider USU as a historically good basketball program.  You have to make some tournament noise for that.  

 

Yes/No. 

Although you want to believe your situation is similar to Reno, I would say it is not.  Your location and religious beliefs will keep a lot of good athletes from even considering the University.  That is difficult to overcome ( as your finding out now in the MW ).  Byu is a better example of your situation.  You will need to continue to replace Byu as a destination for "your" type of kid.  This is already happening and in a few more years you will be competitive here.  

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7 hours ago, TrueAg said:

Aggie basketball was sort of our identity and calling card. It's success was the main reason we were ever in the conversation for inclusion in the MWC.

I'm not so sure about that.

The MWC as a basketball league would have stayed at 9 teams (after adding BSU, Nevada and losing BYU, Utah, and TCU, and gaining Hawaii as a football-only member) and been in really good shape as far as RPI, scheduling, conference tournament, and revenue distribution.

The expansion to 12 teams was necessitated by a) football - and the need to have 12 teams to have a conference championship game, and b) the announced departure of BSU and SDSU to the Big East, which would have needed two teams (ultimately SJSU and USU) as replacements just to stay at 10 teams.  At that time there was also an ill-fated effort to merge the MWC and CUSA.  Thankfully Craig Thompson was able to convince BSU and SDSU to stay (justifying the now over $10.5M in salary that MWC schools have paid him over the past two decades).

But first and foremost the MWC is a football conference, the only G5 conference on the west coast.  Utah State was added because of football. 

 

 

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 USU was added because the MWC to  play football so that is correct. you had a football need.

 Those that think that USU basketball has gotten worse because of the quality of basketball in the MWC are wrong. This is at best a two bid league. USU does not have near the inside players it had six years ago, many of the inside players were good enough to have long term pro basketball career's in Europe, not NBA level but damn good players, none of the current inside kids at USU would get a sniff at pro basketball, anywhere.

 With this current group of kids USU has beaten N.M. BSU, UNLV  and swept Fresno, so I do not see the MWC as some great basketball conference that we can not compete in, if we get the right coach.

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On 2/20/2018 at 9:28 AM, slappy said:

I think most fans say that.  

Crap coach   

But when You look at your roster you likely see crap talent as well.  It takes a lot of infrastructure money and time to start landing quality kids.

To compete in the WAC for a title you can find lots of kids that might of slipped through the cracks of other higher programs.  To compete in the MW you will find less of these kids that are good enough to actually compete at the top of this conference.  To compete in the PAC even less and so on.  Finding the over looked hard nosed kid ( or religiously determined kid ) will only take a program so far.  Eventually you have to go out and win some recruiting battles against The PAC and top MW programs.  My gut feeling is that your recruiting hasn't caught up yet.  The difficult thing is that it is not as simple as saying crap coach.  

USU in the old WAC competed against Nevada, Boise, and Fresno.  Those teams are currently 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.  I don't follow your logic.  

USU basketball was already on a downswing before joining MWC,  just like football was on the upswing.  They won 16 games in basketball the last year in WAC.  It just continue in MWC and didn't hire a good coach to replace Stew.  USU did just fine in football the first few years,  lost the coach and is struggling with the new coach.  I don't think they are out of their league resource wise competing in the MWC at all.  They just need the right coaches.

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Guest #1Stunner
15 hours ago, slappy said:

No. you were invited out of necessity.   Basketball was not the reason. 

 

No. Nobody would consider USU as a historically good basketball program.  You have to make some tournament noise for that.  

 

Yes/No. 

Although you want to believe your situation is similar to Reno, I would say it is not.  Your location and religious beliefs will keep a lot of good athletes from even considering the University.  That is difficult to overcome ( as your finding out now in the MW ).  Byu is a better example of your situation.  You will need to continue to replace Byu as a destination for "your" type of kid.  This is already happening and in a few more years you will be competitive here.  

 

Must be why whenever USU has a good, in-state basketball player, the player is always looking to transfer to BYU or Utah.    See Collette--Utah.  Kyle Davis---BYU.

But sure....keep up your narrative that USU has a big recruiting advantage.   You sound informed.

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Guest #1Stunner
4 minutes ago, alum93 said:

USU in the old WAC competed against Nevada, Boise, and Fresno.  Those teams are currently 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.  I don't follow your logic.  

USU basketball was already on a downswing before joining MWC,  just like football was on the upswing.  They won 16 games in basketball the last year in WAC.  It just continue in MWC and didn't hire a good coach to replace Stew.  USU did just fine in football the first few years,  lost the coach and is struggling with the new coach.  I don't think they are out of their league resource wise competing in the MWC at all.  They just need the right coaches.

The only thing USU needs is a better coach, and they will be fine.

They've always had very successful teams by focusing on in-state / Idaho Mormon kids that BYU and Utah didn't want (there is a lot of talent to go around).  Stew had some very good teams following this template.

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On 2/20/2018 at 8:28 AM, slappy said:

I think most fans say that.  

Crap coach   

But when You look at your roster you likely see crap talent as well.  It takes a lot of infrastructure money and time to start landing quality kids.

To compete in the WAC for a title you can find lots of kids that might of slipped through the cracks of other higher programs.  To compete in the MW you will find less of these kids that are good enough to actually compete at the top of this conference.  To compete in the PAC even less and so on.  Finding the over looked hard nosed kid ( or religiously determined kid ) will only take a program so far.  Eventually you have to go out and win some recruiting battles against The PAC and top MW programs.  My gut feeling is that your recruiting hasn't caught up yet.  The difficult thing is that it is not as simple as saying crap coach.  

To compete in the MWC all USU needs is Stew back. 

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8 minutes ago, NevadaFan said:

To compete in the MWC all USU needs is Stew back. 

There are only a few schools that are consistently bad, really bad, year in and year out in basketball out west.  With the right coach anyone can compete in the top half or top third of the mid major leagues, especially programs with a history of winning.   Of course, by the same logic, even if you won for years, one bad coach can set the program back year.

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Guest #1Stunner
1 hour ago, NevadaFan said:

To compete in the MWC all USU needs is Stew back. 

There is a degree of truth to this.

Guy was an excellent coach.

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7 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

There is a degree of truth to this.

Guy was an excellent coach.

He lost his mojo the last few years.  Not saying he forgot how to coach, he just wasn't able to put the whole package together from recruiting to development to chemisty among players.  It happens.  He had a great career though, no doubt.  I enjoyed the heck out of the NMSU USU battles back in the day.

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5 hours ago, alum93 said:

USU in the old WAC competed against Nevada, Boise, and Fresno.  Those teams are currently 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.  I don't follow your logic.  

USU basketball was already on a downswing before joining MWC,  just like football was on the upswing.  They won 16 games in basketball the last year in WAC.  It just continue in MWC and didn't hire a good coach to replace Stew.  USU did just fine in football the first few years,  lost the coach and is struggling with the new coach.  I don't think they are out of their league resource wise competing in the MWC at all.  They just need the right coaches.

Saying that you competed with Boise while you were both in the WAC is a flawed argument.  As you move up in conference affiliation you must improve.  Some schools have and some schools have not.  Yes you were capable of competing in the WAC.   But are you set up to compete here.  Different animal all together. 

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5 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

 

Must be why whenever USU has a good, in-state basketball player, the player is always looking to transfer to BYU or Utah.    See Collette--Utah.  Kyle Davis---BYU.

But sure....keep up your narrative that USU has a big recruiting advantage.   You sound informed.

A couple things that can not be denied.  

1.  Utah State is benefitting from Byu's independence.  

2.  Utah State needs to out recruit Byu to succeed in the MW. 

3.  The two athletic programs appear to be heading in opposite directions.  This benefits the aggies.  

 

This is not a Byu thing   We are talking  aggies here   But you can continue to join in   

 

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