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BSUTOP25

So radical lefties ... is it time to start the alcohol ban discussion too?

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If you're going to compare alcohol to gun violence, wouldn't it be more accurate to look at the number of assaults/deaths attributed to being hit by bottles of alcohol?

And possibly dying from effects of projectile vomiting?  Something where the liquid alcohol is actually involved directly?

 

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Just now, Boise fan said:

If you're going to compare alcohol to gun violence, wouldn't it be more accurate to look at the number of assaults/deaths attributed to being hit by bottles of alcohol?

And possibly dying from effects of projectile vomiting?  Something where the liquid alcohol is actually involved directly?

 

Some people say that the alcohol is involved directly when you drink it. *

 

*Those people are everyone except Boise Fan

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15 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

Some people say that the alcohol is involved directly when you drink it. *

 

*Those people are everyone except Boise Fan

So how is that compared to guns?  Guns aren't consumed by the user.  The gun is the weapon.  If you are comparing alcohol to guns, shouldn't alcohol be the weapon?

Oh and consumption would make alcohol *indirectly* involved. The weapon you guys keep prattling on about is a car, or a bike, or a fist or some other instrument.

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8 minutes ago, Rebelbacker said:

Does a gun fire itself? 

Image result for anti gun control political cartoons

:shrug: Does alcohol drink itself?

And there are a number of cases (and videos on youtube) of guns firing themselves.  Being dropped, and being too hot are two reasons I recall that can cause a weapon to discharge on its own.

All of which is really immaterial.  The analogy of alcohol consumption to gun violence is crap.

 

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Missing in this vast thread is the simple reality that most non gun killers listed have over the decades been changed, regulated and updated for overall public safety............whereas the NRA panacea would be for everyone to be packing as much firepower as one can handle with two hands, two legs and several pockets 

America: The armed camp is the end game. where packing as much firepower as possible will be as common as wearing underwear 

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2 hours ago, renoskier said:

This is a complete false equivalency.

Do you think that if 3 or 4 fewer kids had been murdered it would matter to their families? I get it, you believe your right to go out and empty a 30 round mag in a matter of seconds is more important than the a few peoples lives. Why?

 

Now the emotional nature of the reactions to this are showing. Step back from all the emotion and look at facts and figures. The law should never deal directly with "feelings".

The 2nd Amendment is not about sport, hunting, or self-defense against criminals. It is the right that enforces and guarantees all of the others against a government that might seek to curtail said rights. Millions have died in establishment and defense of those rights, yet now we are arguing about giving up those rights for a few lives. Seems like an insult to the majority sacrifice...

Image result for h.l. mencken quotes

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2 hours ago, Boise fan said:

If you're going to compare alcohol to gun violence, wouldn't it be more accurate to look at the number of assaults/deaths attributed to being hit by bottles of alcohol?

And possibly dying from effects of projectile vomiting?  Something where the liquid alcohol is actually involved directly?

 

Sure.  Well if you are a dumb ass it does.

Your entire argument is that without the tool the the deaths would not happen.  Alcohol in this case is the tool.  Nobody goes around buying empty beer bottles.

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35 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

Sure.  Well if you are a dumb ass it does.

Your entire argument is that without the tool the the deaths would not happen.  Alcohol in this case is the tool.  Nobody goes around buying empty beer bottles.

No, alcohol isn't the tool.  The tool is a car, or a fist, or some other weapon.  That's the whole point.  You can't compare alcohol to a gun. 

It's completely stupid to draw the comparison. 

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16 hours ago, BSUTOP25 said:

As we're on the topic of red flagging, monitoring, confiscating, and banning shit, should we explore alcohol as well? Beer, wine, liquor seems to be a major domestic violence trigger, assault crime influencer, and widespread killer ... and as we've heard from the radical left, safety is far more important than freedom. I want to know if those lefty authoritarian folks are willing to stand up and lead by example by emptying their booze cabinets, wine cellars, and kegerators today!

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics

 

Alcohol Use in the United States:

  • Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), 86.4 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they drank alcohol at some point in their lifetime; 70.1 percent reported that they drank in the past year; 56.0 percent reported that they drank in the past month.1
     
  • Prevalence of Binge Drinking and Heavy Alcohol Use: In 2015, 26.9 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they engaged in binge drinking in the past month; 7.0 percent reported that they engaged in heavy alcohol use in the past month.2 (See  "Definitions" below for definitions of binge drinking and heavy alcohol use.)

Alcohol Use Disorder (AUD) in the United States:

  • Adults (ages 18+): According to the 2015 NSDUH, 15.1 million adults ages 18 and older(6.2 percent of this age group4) had AUD. This includes 9.8 million men3 (8.4 percent of men in this age group4) and 5.3 million women3 (4.2 percent of women in this age group4).
    • About 6.7 percent of adults who had AUD in the past year received treatment. This includes 7.4 percent of males and 5.4 percent of females with AUD in this age group.5
  • Youth (ages 12–17): According to the 2015 NSDUH, an estimated 623,000 adolescents ages 12–176 (2.5 percent of this age group7) had AUD. This number includes 298,000 males6 (2.3 percent of males in this age group7) and 325,000 females6 (2.7 percent of females in this age group7).
     
  • About 5.2 percent of youth who had AUD in the past year received treatment. This includes 5.1 percent of males and 5.3 percent of females with AUD in this age group.5

Alcohol-Related Deaths:

  • An estimated 88,0008 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women8) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States. The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity.
  • In 2014, alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 9,967 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).10

Economic Burden:

  • In 2010, alcohol misuse cost the United States $249.0 billion.11
  • Three-quarters of the total cost of alcohol misuse is related to binge drinking.11

Global Burden:

  • In 2012, 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 percent of all global deaths (7.6 percent for men and 4.0 percent for women), were attributable to alcohol consumption.12
  • In 2014, the World Health Organization reported that alcohol contributed to more than 200 diseases and injury-related health conditions, most notably DSM–IV alcohol dependence (see sidebar), liver cirrhosis, cancers, and injuries.13 In 2012, 5.1 percent of the burden of disease and injury worldwide (139 million disability-adjusted life-years) was attributable to alcohol consumption.12
  • Globally, alcohol misuse was the fifth leading risk factor for premature death and disability in 2010.  Among people between the ages of 15 and 49, it is the first.14 In the age group 20–39 years, approximately 25 percent of the total deaths are alcohol attributable.15

Family Consequences:

  • More than 10 percent of U.S. children live with a parent with alcohol problems, according to a 2012 study.16

Underage Drinking:

  • Prevalence of Underage Alcohol Use:
    • Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 33.1 percent of 15-year-olds report that they have had at least 1 drink in their lives.17 About 7.7 million people ages 12–2018 (20.3 percent of this age group19) reported drinking alcohol in the past month (19.8 percent of males and 20.8 percent of females19).
    • Prevalence of Binge Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 5.1 million people18 (about 13.4 percent19) ages 12–20 (13.4 percent of males and 13.3 percent of females19) reported binge drinking in the past month.  
    • Prevalence of Heavy Alcohol Use: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 1.3 million people18  (about 3.3 percent19) ages 12–20 (3.6 percent of males and 3.0 percent of females19) reported heavy alcohol use in the past month.
  • Consequences of Underage Alcohol Use:
    • Research indicates that alcohol use during the teenage years could interfere with normal adolescent brain development and increase the risk of developing AUD. In addition, underage drinking contributes to a range of acute consequences, including injuries, sexual assaults, and even deaths—including those from car crashes.20

Alcohol and College Students:

  • Prevalence of Alcohol Use:
    • Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 58.0 percent of full-time college students ages 18–22 drank alcohol in the past month compared with 48.2 percent of other persons of the same age.21
    • Prevalence of Binge Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 37.9 percent of college students ages 18–22 reported binge drinking in the past month compared with 32.6 percent of other persons of the same age.21
    • Prevalence of Heavy Alcohol Use: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 12.5 percent of college students ages 18–22 reported heavy alcohol use in the past month compared with 8.5 percent of other persons of the same age.21
  • Consequences—Researchers estimate that each year:
    • 1,825 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die from alcohol-related unintentional injuries, including motor-vehicle crashes.22
    • 696,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking.23
    • 97,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 report experiencing alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape.23
    • Roughly 20 percent of college students meet the criteria for AUD.24
    • About 1 in 4 college students report academic consequences from drinking, including missing class, falling behind in class, doing poorly on exams or papers, and receiving lower grades overall.25

Alcohol and Pregnancy:

  • The prevalence of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) in the United States was estimated by the Institute of Medicine in 1996 to be between 0.5 and 3.0 cases per 1,000.26
  • More recent reports from specific U.S. sites report the prevalence of FAS to be 2 to 7 cases per 1,000, and the prevalence of Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD) to be as high as 20 to 50 cases per 1,000.27,28

Alcohol and the Human Body:

  • In 2015, of the 78,529 liver disease deaths among individuals ages 12 and older, 47.0 percent involved alcohol. Among males, 49,695 liver disease deaths occurred and 49.5 percent involved alcohol. Among females, 28,834 liver disease deaths occurred and 43.5 percent involved alcohol.29
  • Among all cirrhosis deaths in 2013, 47.9 percent were alcohol related. The proportion of alcohol-related cirrhosis was highest (76.5 percent) among deaths of persons ages 25–34, followed by deaths of persons ages 35–44, at 70.0 percent.30
  • In 2009, alcohol-related liver disease was the primary cause of almost 1 in 3 liver transplants in the United States.31
  • Drinking alcohol increases the risk of cancers of the mouth, esophagus, pharynx, larynx, liver, and breast.32

Health Benefits of Moderate Alcohol Consumption:

  • Moderate alcohol consumption, according to the 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, is up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.33
  • Moderate alcohol consumption may have beneficial effects on health. These include decreased risk for heart disease and mortality due to heart disease, decreased risk of ischemic stroke (in which the arteries to the brain become narrowed or blocked, resulting in reduced blood flow), and decreased risk of diabetes.34
  • In most Western countries where chronic diseases such as coronary heart disease (CHD), cancer, stroke, and diabetes are the primary causes of death, results from large epidemiological studies consistently show that alcohol reduces mortality, especially among middle-aged and older men and women—an association that is likely due to the protective effects of moderate alcohol consumption on CHD, diabetes, and ischemic stroke.34
  • It is estimated that 26,000 deaths were averted in 2005 because of reductions in ischemic heart disease, ischemic stroke, and diabetes from the benefits attributed to moderate alcohol consumption.35
  • Expanding our understanding of the relationship between moderate alcohol consumption and potential health benefits remains a challenge, and, although there are positive effects, alcohol may not benefit everyone who drinks moderately.
  • More information about the potential health benefits, as well as risks, of moderate alcohol consumption can be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15201626.

 

I'll put it as simply as I can....no booze no MWC board posting.

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24 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

No, alcohol isn't the tool.  The tool is a car, or a fist, or some other weapon.  That's the whole point.  You can't compare alcohol to a gun. 

It's completely stupid to draw the comparison. 

No the tool is alcohol.  How do you not grab this?  It is bought and used to perform a function.  The car is not bought to put oneself in an inebriated state.  Alcohol is, thus making it the tool of drunkenness and the resulting consequences.

This is a demonstration that with timing and reading your target(s) engaging in strict observational reductio can be a most rewording form of demonstrative reasoning.  Bravo @BSUTOP25

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34 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No the tool is alcohol.  How do you not grab this?  It is bought and used to perform a function.  The car is not bought to put oneself in an inebriated state.  Alcohol is, thus making it the tool of drunkenness and the resulting consequences.

This is a demonstration that with timing and reading your target(s) engaging in strict observational reductio can be a most rewording form of demonstrative reasoning.  Bravo @BSUTOP25

The tool is the device that causes the injury.   The tool isn't the alcohol.  Anyone can get drunk. It's driving the car. The car does the damage. It's using a weapon out of anger.  Be it a fist, a knife or a gun.  Using the fist, knife or gun is the reason you get charged.  You're not getting charged for using the alcohol.  

I have no idea why this is so difficult for you and the others in this thread.  It seems so freaking elementary.  But whatever.

Your last sentence was written as though you've been drinking. Actually the whole response comes across like you've been drinking.  Maybe that's why you're not getting it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

The tool is the device that causes the injury.   The tool isn't the alcohol.  Anyone can get drunk. It's driving the car. The car does the damage. It's using a weapon out of anger.  Be it a fist, a knife or a gun.  Using the fist, knife or gun is the reason you get charged.  You're not getting charged for using the alcohol.  

I have no idea why this is so difficult for you and the others in this thread.  It seems so freaking elementary.  But whatever.

Your last sentence was written as though you've been drinking. Actually the whole response comes across like you've been drinking.  Maybe that's why you're not getting it.

 

No a tool does not need to be a device.  Tools can even be concepts, strategies and substances.  What was the RESPONSIBLE tool in a drunk wreck?  The the tool that transports them or the tool that was the reason behind the wreck?  

Lol if you did not understand the last sentence I feel it is safe to say you never were really an English or debate type of guy.  WoW was probably more of your level and I am sure you had a great time.  JFC posting on a collegiate message board and not even being familiar with types of reductio argumentation.  I will use memes next time for you.  An offering for your good faith in this.

Image result for dumb it down meme

 

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How did I somehow miss this?

5 hours ago, Boise fan said:

If you're going to compare alcohol to gun violence, wouldn't it be more accurate to look at the number of assaults/deaths attributed to being hit by bottles of alcohol?

And possibly dying from effects of projectile vomiting?  Something where the liquid alcohol is actually involved directly?

 

How the +++++ did I miss this.  Seriously, +++++ off.  Many of us lost friends and family this year to driving under the influence.  GFY.

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26 minutes ago, Boise fan said:

The tool is the device that causes the injury.   The tool isn't the alcohol.  Anyone can get drunk. It's driving the car. The car does the damage. It's using a weapon out of anger.  Be it a fist, a knife or a gun.  Using the fist, knife or gun is the reason you get charged.  You're not getting charged for using the alcohol.  

I have no idea why this is so difficult for you and the others in this thread.  It seems so freaking elementary.  But whatever.

Your last sentence was written as though you've been drinking. Actually the whole response comes across like you've been drinking.  Maybe that's why you're not getting it.

 

So ban cars, knives, guns and fists?

Alcohol is worst than guns. A gun is a +++++ing expensive paperweight when not in use.

Drink alcohol and it alters your body and thinking. Also you do get charged for using alcohol buddy. It's called DUI, prohibited person with a gun and public intoxication.

All is well, For Rice is gone.                  

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57 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No the tool is alcohol.  How do you not grab this?  It is bought and used to perform a function.  The car is not bought to put oneself in an inebriated state.  Alcohol is, thus making it the tool of drunkenness and the resulting consequences.

This is a demonstration that with timing and reading your target(s) engaging in strict observational reductio can be a most rewording form of demonstrative reasoning.  Bravo @BSUTOP25

 

8 minutes ago, halfmanhalfbronco said:

No a tool does not need to be a device.  Tools can even be concepts, strategies and substances.  What was the RESPONSIBLE tool in a drunk wreck?  The the tool that transports them or the tool that was the reason behind the wreck?  

Lol if you did not understand the last sentence I feel it is safe to say you never were really an English or debate type of guy.  WoW was probably more of your level and I am sure you had a great time.  JFC posting on a collegiate message board and not even being familiar with types of reductio argumentation.  I will use memes next time for you.  An offering for your good faith in this.

 

You're either getting drunk or off your meds again.  I've noticed that you alternate between periods of rational thought and reasoning, and other times where you're highly emotional and reactionary.  This time appears to follow the latter.

The sentence I highlighted in bold is incoherent. It's poorly structured.  It is a run-on sentence.  And some parts simply make no sense.  It's gibberish that I expect to hear from someone trying to sound smart in a bar around last call.

If you are drunk you can be charged with public intoxication.  If you kill someone while driving drunk you are charged with vehicular manslaughter.  The weapon that killed the victim is the car.  The fact you were an asshole who drove drunk is the reason you crashed.  But the tool used to commit the crime was the CAR.

If you lash out at your spouse or someone else when you are drunk, you are charged with assault, or manslaughter or murder.  You are not charged with intoxication.  Again, the tool used is the weapon, be it your hands, or whatever else you pick up.  The fact you were an asshole who committed the crime while drunk just makes you an asshole.

Comparing alcohol to a gun is mind numbingly stupid. 

 

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3 minutes ago, BestintheWest said:

So ban cars, knives, guns and fists?

Alcohol is worst than guns. A gun is a +++++ing expensive paperweight when not in use.

Drink alcohol and it alters your body and thinking. Also you do get charged for using alcohol buddy. It's called DUI, prohibited person with a gun and public intoxication.

Man the level of stupid is thick in this thread. 

No Einstein, the only one advocating banning anything is the OP.  I'm trying to outline how phucking stupid this whole thread is.

It's his tantrum thread because he didn't win his arguments in another thread.

 

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Just now, Boise fan said:

Man the level of stupid is thick in this thread. 

No Einstein, the only one advocating banning anything is the OP.  I'm trying to outline how phucking stupid this whole thread is.

It's his tantrum thread because he didn't win his arguments in another thread.

 

So.....you're trying to ban threads now?

 

It's gone too far my friends.

All is well, For Rice is gone.                  

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1 hour ago, Boise fan said:

 

You're either getting drunk or off your meds again.  I've noticed that you alternate between periods of rational thought and reasoning, and other times where you're highly emotional and reactionary.  This time appears to follow the latter.

The sentence I highlighted in bold is incoherent. It's poorly structured.  It is a run-on sentence.  And some parts simply make no sense.  It's gibberish that I expect to hear from someone trying to sound smart in a bar around last call.

If you are drunk you can be charged with public intoxication.  If you kill someone while driving drunk you are charged with vehicular manslaughter.  The weapon that killed the victim is the car.  The fact you were an asshole who drove drunk is the reason you crashed.  But the tool used to commit the crime was the CAR.

If you lash out at your spouse or someone else when you are drunk, you are charged with assault, or manslaughter or murder.  You are not charged with intoxication.  Again, the tool used is the weapon, be it your hands, or whatever else you pick up.  The fact you were an asshole who committed the crime while drunk just makes you an asshole.

Comparing alcohol to a gun is mind numbingly stupid. 

 

The only thing wrong with the sentence is a missing comma.  Not your fault for being limited, it is your fault not researching something you happen to be ignorant in.  It is an argument type taught in classes ranging from mathematics to the arts.  If you spent time in college you have heard of it more than once even if you never looked into it further.  Modes of argumentation like this are not meant to be some theses of knowledge, they are supposed to fun and arguing for the sake of arguing.  How are your personal relationships by the way?  I am sure your friends must keep in touch with a fun guy like you.

As for your claims about me, I got out of the hospital a few hours ago following a bout with acute pancreatitis so highly unlikely I am drunk.

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