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Guest #1Stunner

Random thought on Poverty and/or Racism in the US (overcoming it)

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Guest #1Stunner

OK, so we all see random features on the news about how bad things can be for certain groups (poverty, racial poverty, etc).   Something like inner city Chicago, with gang shootings, black people living in poverty, and general hopelessness.  Or families struggling in in the inner city, anywhere in America.   Or white people all unemployed in rural America, or a rust belt State, because some major employer left, and everyone is depressed and on welfare.

The thought has frequently occurred to me...  Why don't those people take a risk and move to somewhere with more opportunity?   If it is bad in their area, why don't they move somewhere else?   Maybe move to a Western State?  Like Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, Utah?

I know it is tough to move, and can be expensive, and scary to leave what you know......but isn't that what America is all about?    Immigrants that have left their family and what they know, in pursuit of a better opportunity?  Taking less desirable jobs in a new area, because there is a chance for upward mobility?   I guess I'm saying, why don't these struggling people (who don't deserve their struggles sometimes), take a risk and move to a City or State with more opportunity?

 

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31 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

OK, so we all see random features on the news about how bad things can be for certain groups (poverty, racial poverty, etc).   Something like inner city Chicago, with gang shootings, black people living in poverty, and general hopelessness.  Or families struggling in in the inner city, anywhere in America.   Or white people all unemployed in rural America, or a rust belt State, because some major employer left, and everyone is depressed and on welfare.

The thought has frequently occurred to me...  Why don't those people take a risk and move to somewhere with more opportunity?   If it is bad in their area, why don't they move somewhere else?   Maybe move to a Western State?  Like Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, Utah?

I know it is tough to move, and can be expensive, and scary to leave what you know......but isn't that what America is all about?    Immigrants that have left their family and what they know, in pursuit of a better opportunity?  Taking less desirable jobs in a new area, because there is a chance for upward mobility?   I guess I'm saying, why don't these struggling people (who don't deserve their struggles sometimes), take a risk and move to a City or State with more opportunity?

 

If you don't have the money or education to get out how do you do it? Like you said it cost money to move,  people that are living in poverty can barely afford to buy food. They're essentially trapped.

 

I have no idea what the answer is.

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Guest #1Stunner
2 minutes ago, rudolro said:

If you don't have the money or education to get out how do you do it? Like you said it cost money to move,  people that are living in poverty can barely afford to buy food. They're essentially trapped.

 

I have no idea what the answer is.

Money to move can be a challenge....but I don't think it is as difficult and impossible to move as people think.   I've personal known plenty of poor people who have moved, with little money.

Education to move.... I don't think this is a valid concern.  Poor people (whether white or black, in depressed areas) are not dumb people.   They can figure it out.    

The opportunity is there if people will take a risk.  Risk is not always easy, I agree.

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43 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Education to move.... I don't think this is a valid concern. 

The education part of the move is to get a better job. I'm not saying no education= dumb or stupid. I know college isn't for everyone. But let's say you're moving to the city,  outside of hospitality industry you're going to need an education of some sort.

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29 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Money to move can be a challenge....but I don't think it is as difficult and impossible to move as people think.   I've personal known plenty of poor people who have moved, with little money.

 

I have to think that your experience with poor people is a little different than the experience of poor people in Chicago

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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People moving have a much better chance of succeeding if they have some sort of support group in the community they are moving to. The best support group is family, which is why I do not like the vilification of "chain migration", you are much more likely to succeed in a new place ( especially new country ) if you have family around to support you. Other forms of support can come from other communities an individual identifies with, such as members of their religion, ethnic group or race. If none of this exists in a locale where someone may want to go for increased opportunity, the move can be very daunting.

I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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You need capital and opportunity to move. Growing up in concentrated poverty affords you neither. 

On 12/1/2016 at 12:26 PM, WyomingCoog said:

I own a vehicle likely worth more than everything you own combined and just flew first class (including a ticket for a 2 1/2 year old), round trip to Las Vegas and I'm not 35 yet. When you accomplish something outside of finishing a book, let me know. When's the last time you saw a 2 year old fly first class in their own seat? Don't tell me about elite.  

28 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

I’d happily compare IQ’s with you any day of the week.

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56 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I have to think that your experience with poor people is a little different than the experience of poor people in Chicago

How so?  I don't understand what you are trying to say...  Are we talking poor Latinos, Blacks, Whites, or Polish people in Chicago?  (not sure what you are referencing).

Are you suggesting that people in Chicago are incapable of figuring out how to move to a better area (monetarily)?

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1 hour ago, rudolro said:

The education part of the move is to get a better job. I'm not saying no education= dumb or stupid. I know college isn't for everyone. But let's say you're moving to the city,  outside of hospitality industry you're going to need an education of some sort.

Anyone can move to Las Vegas and find a job, right now (plenty of people have).

And you don't need a college degree to IMPROVE your economic opportunity.   As I said before, there are unemployed Blacks and Whites all over this country, sitting in places with NO JOBS.   This is terrible for them.   I don't think they want to be doctors, lawyers, engineers.... I am talking about basic jobs and improving one's quality of life.

Being a Janitor is better than no job at all.

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42 minutes ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

You need capital and opportunity to move. Growing up in concentrated poverty affords you neither. 

Opportunity - Look no further than Las Vegas (lots of jobs available for anyone).   I'm told the Utah job market is also booming right now---not just college degree jobs.  They can't build homes fast enough there.  Idaho is also a job market.  Western States need workers.

Capital - this is not as big of a deal as people think.   How much money does anyone think it really takes to pick up and move to a new State?

 

The opportunity cost of doing NOTHING is far worse.    Doing nothing seems like a recipe for generational poverty.   

At a certain point, it serves people better to pursue opportunities elsewhere.  I give credit to the poor Latin Americans who are coming to America (they get it, and are putting it all on the line to improve their family's life).   Why don't poor Americans simply look at other cities or States for better opportunities?

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59 minutes ago, Mano said:

People moving have a much better chance of succeeding if they have some sort of support group in the community they are moving to. The best support group is family, which is why I do not like the vilification of "chain migration", you are much more likely to succeed in a new place ( especially new country ) if you have family around to support you. Other forms of support can come from other communities an individual identifies with, such as members of their religion, ethnic group or race. If none of this exists in a locale where someone may want to go for increased opportunity, the move can be very daunting.

I don't disagree with you.... But there are also people that didn't have this, and still put it all on the line.   

And I am talking about Americans moving to other places in the United States of America (not immigrants from foreign countries, moving to an entirely new culture).

At a certain point, you've got to "nut up" and take a risk.    Otherwise, the status quo is going to result in generational poverty, or living in a racist (poverty) environment.

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Guest #1Stunner

Here is an example I am talking about.

This transcends race.... I am talking about people in places that are economically depressed.  Poor people with no job opportunity.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, #1Stunner said:

How so?  I don't understand what you are trying to say...  Are we talking poor Latinos, Blacks, Whites, or Polish people in Chicago?  (not sure what you are referencing).

Are you suggesting that people in Chicago are incapable of figuring out how to move to a better area (monetarily)?

I'm saying that poor in Utah is not the same as poor in Chicago. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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57 minutes ago, happycamper said:

I'm saying that poor in Utah is not the same as poor in Chicago. 

OK, I understand, but I don't live in Utah and have lived in a few different States, including internationally.  

So my exposure to people isn't limited to people in Utah.

Poor people aren't that much different, in my opinion.   Poor is poor.

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2 hours ago, #1Stunner said:

I don't disagree with you.... But there are also people that didn't have this, and still put it all on the line.   

And I am talking about Americans moving to other places in the United States of America (not immigrants from foreign countries, moving to an entirely new culture).

At a certain point, you've got to "nut up" and take a risk.    Otherwise, the status quo is going to result in generational poverty, or living in a racist (poverty) environment.

60% of Americans have insufficient savings to handle an unexpected expense of $500.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/americans-lack-of-savings/index.html

How are they supposed to move?

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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1 minute ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

60% of Americans have insufficient savings to handle an unexpected expense of $500.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/americans-lack-of-savings/index.html

How are they supposed to move?

Bro, you are making excuses....

I'm guessing you have never been poor before?  

loading up a car and moving to a new apartment in a different State isn't that huge of a deal.   You guys are acting like this is scaling Mt Everest and is cost prohibitive.

The problem IS NOT the cost.   The problem is that these poor folks aren't even considering what I'm saying (i.e., taking a risk and moving to a different area).  They are living in generational poverty because they don't realize that they can move to a new place.

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21 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Bro, you are making excuses....

I'm guessing you have never been poor before?  

loading up a car and moving to a new apartment in a different State isn't that huge of a deal.   You guys are acting like this is scaling Mt Everest and is cost prohibitive.

The problem IS NOT the cost.   The problem is that these poor folks aren't even considering what I'm saying (i.e., taking a risk and moving to a different area).  They are living in generational poverty because they don't realize that they can move to a new place.

Bro, you are living in a dream world. The problem is cost. 

Thay Haif Said: Quhat Say Thay? Lat Thame Say

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14 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

 

loading up a car and moving to a new apartment in a different State isn't that huge of a deal.   You guys are acting like this is scaling Mt Everest and is cost prohibitive.

 

.Wait, what the +++++? First and last month's rent and a deposit and no job and double paying a month of rent isn't "that huge of a deal"? That's 2 grand, easy, for a move from one side of town to the other. 

Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. 

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34 minutes ago, #1Stunner said:

Bro, you are making excuses....

I'm guessing you have never been poor before?  

loading up a car and moving to a new apartment in a different State isn't that huge of a deal.   You guys are acting like this is scaling Mt Everest and is cost prohibitive.

The problem IS NOT the cost.   The problem is that these poor folks aren't even considering what I'm saying (i.e., taking a risk and moving to a different area).  They are living in generational poverty because they don't realize that they can move to a new place.

 

21 minutes ago, Old_SD_Dude said:

Bro, you are living in a dream world. The problem is cost. 

 

19 minutes ago, happycamper said:

.Wait, what the +++++? First and last month's rent and a deposit and no job and double paying a month of rent isn't "that huge of a deal"? That's 2 grand, easy, for a move from one side of town to the other. 

Unfortunately, I also believe our support system can lock folks into their current state. While the programs might be federal, they're administered at the state level. In addition to the cost of moving, a family also might have to forgo assistance for a period of time. 

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23 minutes ago, happycamper said:

.Wait, what the +++++? First and last month's rent and a deposit and no job and double paying a month of rent isn't "that huge of a deal"? That's 2 grand, easy, for a move from one side of town to the other. 

Of course it isn't a huge deal.  

These same people are doing this same sort of thing in the depressed, jobless area that they are currently living in already, right?  You think they don't change apartments or houses where they currently live?

Too many here are treating poor people as completely helpless, or too dumb to figure out how to drive to a new place (this is an insult to them).

Again....if there are no jobs where they live (generational poverty), then maybe a way to remedy that is moving to a better area with more opportunity.

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