CA proposes no tackle FB before HS

[tspoke]

I didn't play tackle football till JR High. Never had the option in my small town. Never felt like I missed out on anything. I'm fine with no tackle before HS or JRH. No big deal.

[NYCLobo]

You guys need to get out of Idaho, Wyoming, rural Nevada, etc. every once in a while. Go visit inner cities. As PTR said, lots of social issues much more important than dictating what sports kids can play and when. As a member of a youth football league board, what I tell people is that football is the one sport in America that welcomes big kids. Childhood obesity is a major problem and its a HUGE problem in America's inner cities. To be blunt, big fat kids won't play soccer or flag football or baseball or even martial arts. Instead, they stay athome and get fatter and more depressed. 

We had this 8 year old two years ago. I wasn't a coach, so I just saw him every once in a while when I watched practices. His mom dragged him to the field after preseason practices had already started. He was huge, like 200 lbs, maybe more (AYF, no weight limits, we don't weight kids), Hispanic, single mom. He was winded walking from the car to the field. We asked about medical clearance, etc. and she said the doctor told her to get him to get active. When he started practicing, he was walking a half a lap, while the rest of the team was running 4, and then had to rest for like 15 min. He didn't play much early on. We had to have a mom hem adult pants for him and cut off the bottom of a jersey. I'll tell you, this was one of the most rewarding things to watch. That kid lost a ton of weight (guessing 30-40 lbs), his face was literally half the size it was when he showed up. He could jog a lap and walk another. He started getting more than mininum plays by the end of he season. Coaches talked to him about eating habits (role models - big, athletic guys to whom he looked up), he made friends. What a transformation. I'll tell you without hesitation, if his mom took him to soccer or any other sport, the kids would have laughed him off the field and he would have never come back. Our program, his teammates welcomed him with open arms.

 

[SalinasSpartan]

48 minutes ago, NYCLobo said:

You guys need to get out of Idaho, Wyoming, rural Nevada, etc. every once in a while. Go visit inner cities. As PTR said, lots of social issues much more important than dictating what sports kids can play and when. As a member of a youth football league board, what I tell people is that football is the one sport in America that welcomes big kids. Childhood obesity is a major problem and its a HUGE problem in America's inner cities. To be blunt, big fat kids won't play soccer or flag football or baseball or even martial arts. Instead, they stay athome and get fatter and more depressed. 

We had this 8 year old two years ago. I wasn't a coach, so I just saw him every once in a while when I watched practices. His mom dragged him to the field after preseason practices had already started. He was huge, like 200 lbs, maybe more (AYF, no weight limits, we don't weight kids), Hispanic, single mom. He was winded walking from the car to the field. We asked about medical clearance, etc. and she said the doctor told her to get him to get active. When he started practicing, he was walking a half a lap, while the rest of the team was running 4, and then had to rest for like 15 min. He didn't play much early on. We had to have a mom hem adult pants for him and cut off the bottom of a jersey. I'll tell you, this was one of the most rewarding things to watch. That kid lost a ton of weight (guessing 30-40 lbs), his face was literally half the size it was when he showed up. He could jog a lap and walk another. He started getting more than mininum plays by the end of he season. Coaches talked to him about eating habits (role models - big, athletic guys to whom he looked up), he made friends. What a transformation. I'll tell you without hesitation, if his mom took him to soccer or any other sport, the kids would have laughed him off the field and he would have never come back. Our program, his teammates welcomed him with open arms.

 

There is youth football with no weight limits? I never knew that, where I grew up there were two different leagues and both of them had weight limits. 

[ViAggie]

My two sons both played tackle FB. The oldest quit by time he got to HS, the youngest still plays.  He actually plays in a San Diego County based league.  If you think flag football is safe, think again.  My youngest started out playing flag football and actually ended up with more injuries than he's ever had playing tackle.  He got two black eyes and multiple bruises during the two years before he could start plying tackle.  I couldn't wait for him to get a helmet and pads on.  

My youngest has been playing tackle for three years now and loves it.  We've talked about him maybe not playing, but he always insists on it, and asks why we would ever want to take away something he loves so much.  I can't argue with him.  Also, my issue is that other sports have just as many injuries as FB, maybe not as brutal, but my boy plays Basketball and Soccer as well, and I've seen him get hurt playing both of those.  Also, I think if we're going to look at the long term health effects from playing FB, why not all sports?  You use your head playing Soccer way more than FB.  I worry about concussions more from that sport.  Why pick on just tackle football?  Are we supposed to wrap our kids up in bubble wrap?  Silly, kids like playing sports, go figure?  Is there a possibility they will get injured?  Sure?  Just like there's a possibility they can get injured screwing around on the playground at school.  Teach the kids how the play the game and how to play it safe.  Not just tackle football, but all sports.        

[ViAggie]

4 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

There is youth football with no weight limits? I never knew that, where I grew up there were two different leagues and both of them had weight limits. 

Yes.  There are multiple youth Football organizations, all with various rules. Pop Warner is probably the most strict.  They offer various divisions that include an age range and weight maximum.  The problem is when you have a kid who's big and he can't play with kids his age, then he's forced to jump up a division where he's playing with older, more mature kids.  In that case you can join Jr. All American or American Youth Football, which have no weight limit and only group by age/grade (U-8, 9, 10 and upward).  Pop Warner also offers an unlimited weight division for older kids.    

[NevadaFan]

31 minutes ago, ViAggie said:

My two sons both played tackle FB. The oldest quit by time he got to HS, the youngest still plays.  He actually plays in a San Diego County based league.  If you think flag football is safe, think again.  My youngest started out playing flag football and actually ended up with more injuries than he's ever had playing tackle.  He got two black eyes and multiple bruises during the two years before he could start plying tackle.  I couldn't wait for him to get a helmet and pads on.  

My youngest has been playing tackle for three years now and loves it.  We've talked about him maybe not playing, but he always insists on it, and asks why we would ever want to take away something he loves so much.  I can't argue with him.  Also, my issue is that other sports have just as many injuries as FB, maybe not as brutal, but my boy plays Basketball and Soccer as well, and I've seen him get hurt playing both of those.  Also, I think if we're going to look at the long term health effects from playing FB, why not all sports?  You use your head playing Soccer way more than FB.  I worry about concussions more from that sport.  Why pick on just tackle football?  Are we supposed to wrap our kids up in bubble wrap?  Silly, kids like playing sports, go figure?  Is there a possibility they will get injured?  Sure?  Just like there's a possibility they can get injured screwing around on the playground at school.  Teach the kids how the play the game and how to play it safe.  Not just tackle football, but all sports.        

My middle school was in a district that played flag football back in the day. I tell people this story all the time when talking glory days that as a 7th grader I was absolutely sanded by a dude.... D-f’ing-cleated by a bearded kid from a rival school. 30+ years later my dad still gives me chit about that hit. So yes, flag can be played at a high level. 

That said, my story is anecdotal. Why not look at the data? If kids are getting concussions than make changes. Pretty simple if you ask me. 

[SalinasSpartan]

2 hours ago, ViAggie said:

Yes.  There are multiple youth Football organizations, all with various rules. Pop Warner is probably the most strict.  They offer various divisions that include an age range and weight maximum.  The problem is when you have a kid who's big and he can't play with kids his age, then he's forced to jump up a division where he's playing with older, more mature kids.  In that case you can join Jr. All American or American Youth Football, which have no weight limit and only group by age/grade (U-8, 9, 10 and upward).  Pop Warner also offers an unlimited weight division for older kids.    

Interesting. The only league i had access to in Monterey county CA had weight limits. 

[NevadaFan]

2 hours ago, SalinasSpartan said:

Interesting. The only league i had access to in Monterey county CA had weight limits. 

They all have weight limits. But it just means that you can only play certain positions. You can’t be 200 lb and run the football. 

[Hador]

10 hours ago, ViAggie said:

My two sons both played tackle FB. The oldest quit by time he got to HS, the youngest still plays.  He actually plays in a San Diego County based league.  If you think flag football is safe, think again.  My youngest started out playing flag football and actually ended up with more injuries than he's ever had playing tackle.  He got two black eyes and multiple bruises during the two years before he could start plying tackle.  I couldn't wait for him to get a helmet and pads on.  

My youngest has been playing tackle for three years now and loves it.  We've talked about him maybe not playing, but he always insists on it, and asks why we would ever want to take away something he loves so much.  I can't argue with him.  Also, my issue is that other sports have just as many injuries as FB, maybe not as brutal, but my boy plays Basketball and Soccer as well, and I've seen him get hurt playing both of those.  Also, I think if we're going to look at the long term health effects from playing FB, why not all sports?  You use your head playing Soccer way more than FB.  I worry about concussions more from that sport.  Why pick on just tackle football?  Are we supposed to wrap our kids up in bubble wrap?  Silly, kids like playing sports, go figure?  Is there a possibility they will get injured?  Sure?  Just like there's a possibility they can get injured screwing around on the playground at school.  Teach the kids how the play the game and how to play it safe.  Not just tackle football, but all sports.        

I am mostly agreeing with you overall, except for one point: Not all injuries are equal and because of this you weaken your own point. Black eyes and bruises hurt but the long term effects even of more serious injuries like a broken collarbone or arm are rarely as severe as those of concussions or other brain/nerve injuries even if they seem minor in the short term. CTE may or may not be a special case, but that the brain does not heal very well (and in some cases not at all) compared to bones or other body tissue is a medical fact. This is also the reason why many people now believe that the current evolution of helmets and pads makes the long term problems worse: They are designed to protect you from the worst short term injuries, long term effects are only now beginning to be incorporated into protective gear design.

[OrediggerPoke]

Flag football will become a college sport.  The only question is when.  That's a reality.

[nmlongbow]

I played YAFL football as a kid and also in HS. Never had a serious injury or diagnosed concussion from football although I’m sure I had several concussions that weren’t diagnosed back then. I have had 6 concussions that I was treated at the hospital before from kickboxing, fights and BMX crashes, one of which resulted in total amnesia for a few days. I’m 52 now and don’t have any issues yet and still have a much better than average memory.

My kid played tackled footbal from age 7-12. He is an exceptional athlete, much better than I ever was. He took a lot of big hits as a RB and DB but never had a concussion or serious injury. He’s done with football now because he got tired of the punishment. I coached him for 5 seasons and coached other kids for several years. Coaching was fun but I’m glad he decided to quit football because the risk of significant injury is very real. He’s mainly focused on baseball now. 

Every team I coached had at least a few kids get concussions and one or more kid with broken arms, legs, ankles etc. For several years now all YAFL coaches are required to get certified in Heads Up tackling and concussion awareness. Kids are not supposed to use lead with their helmets but it is rarely enforced by the officials.

I’m not in favor of laws that eliminate tackle football altogether but I don’t think it’s a sport that kids should be playing without some serious rule changes.

[AztecSU]

I played from peewee until end of high school. IMHO they should do this to save kids knees as much as their heads. Of everyone I know that played as long as me from my hometown none of us have lingering concussion issues, but all of us have +++++ed up knees. 

[NYCLobo]

17 hours ago, NevadaFan said:

They all have weight limits. But it just means that you can only play certain positions. You can’t be 200 lb and run the football. 

Not true. American Youth Football (www.ayf.org), which is the largest youth football organization in the world, has an All-American which is age-based with no weight limits. Sadler Sports, which underwrites a lot of youth sports insurance, has a ton of actuarial data on injuries. The #1 risk factor is age, meaning the older you get, the greater risk for injury. For football, they have data on all three models - weight-based (older/lighter & younger/heavier, traditional Pop Warner model), age-based (AYF All-American, kids within a 12-month age range, no weight restrictions), & hybrid (age-based, weight restriction on certain positions, typically skill positions). Age-based is the safest of the 3 models. Disclaimer - this is all reported injuries, not just head injuries.

So, yes, there are big and strong kids carryinig the football at the youth level. But you'll find 95% of the time, physics win out. Bigger kids tend to be a bit slower, smaller kids tend to be faster and everything works out... 

[NYCLobo]

3 hours ago, nmlongbow said:

I played YAFL football as a kid and also in HS. Never had a serious injury or diagnosed concussion from football although I’m sure I had several concussions that weren’t diagnosed back then. I have had 6 concussions that I was treated at the hospital before from kickboxing, fights and BMX crashes, one of which resulted in total amnesia for a few days. I’m 52 now and don’t have any issues yet and still have a much better than average memory.

My kid played tackled footbal from age 7-12. He is an exceptional athlete, much better than I ever was. He took a lot of big hits as a RB and DB but never had a concussion or serious injury. He’s done with football now because he got tired of the punishment. I coached him for 5 seasons and coached other kids for several years. Coaching was fun but I’m glad he decided to quit football because the risk of significant injury is very real. He’s mainly focused on baseball now. 

Every team I coached had at least a few kids get concussions and one or more kid with broken arms, legs, ankles etc. For several years now all YAFL coaches are required to get certified in Heads Up tackling and concussion awareness. Kids are not supposed to use lead with their helmets but it is rarely enforced by the officials.

I’m not in favor of laws that eliminate tackle football altogether but I don’t think it’s a sport that kids should be playing without some serious rule changes.

I agree on the rules changes. Football can be made significantly safer by eliminating kick offs and punt returns. In my experience, 90% of injuries occur on special teams. Kids running down field like kamikazes is pretty stupid. Also, the Federation rules were updated in 2017 to eliiminate open field, blind-side hits, including both blocking and tackling/hitting defenseless players. Our youth league has had those rules for years. We also require all open field blocks to be led by hands, even if they are not blind hits. My son has played from age 7-13 and I used to watch 4-6 games/weekend age levels 8U-14U. I've seen two ambulances come to the field, both were lower leg injuries (one broken ankle and a blown out knee). Ironically, I've seen as many ambulances come to Little League games (1. a line drive that hit the pitcher in the mouth, knocking out several teeth, needed stitches, blood everywhere and 2. a kid was rounding second base and he stepped on the bag oddly, his knee gave out). The only concussion I've seen in one of my son's games was in basketball. A kid had his legs taken out on a rebound, he couldn't get his hands down in time to brace his landing and basically landed on his head. The sound of his head hitting the floor was very scary. He got up and looked like Lamar Jorday vs. Boise. Very scary. 

Again, there is no question football is dangerous. Everyone shouldn't have to play it. But, its a sport that appeals to many boys. A lot of boys need a physical outlet. My son certainly needs one. It's the only sport in America that welcomes big fat kids. It is very short-sided and ill-informed to try to impose you own concerns upon others. 

[dshawfan]

On 2/12/2018 at 8:41 PM, bluerules009 said:

This is really dumb, kids don't hit hard enough to do damage before high school.   Even High School kids are except at the highest levels pretty unlikely to do much damage to each other.

 

Played both Pop Warner and HS FB. Don’t recall ever having my bell rung in Pop Warner. HS was a much different story.