happycamper Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 49 minutes ago, Slapdad said: How is the logo racist? It's just a cartoon of a smiling native american with feather in a headband. Uh, that is entirely red, with buck teeth, a doofy smile, and a single feather headdress. Come on man 8 minutes ago, Joe from WY said: This is retarded. That logo is a classic. Fvcking white people ruin everything. Yeah minstrel shows were classic for a long time too Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester_in_reno Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 it was very dated and was from a different time with different sensibilities. Imagine these? no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Yeah, I mean if you've seen a Native American who looks even close to what Chief Wahoo looks like please share a picture. Otherwise this is vaguely in the same category as drawings of black minstrel performers with night black faces and red tube lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I know it isn't apples to apples, but Jesus guys it's just sports. I guess it is ultimately a good thing, just seems like it should be like number 9,000 on the list and we are still on number 1. Like, will anybody's life be improved by even 1% based on this change, or is it just a bunch of people who need to be called a hero, but dont want to go too far out of their way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueStout Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Lester_in_reno said: it was very dated and was from a different time with different sensibilities. Imagine these? no? That New York logo is ridiculous. The guy doesn't even have fangs! #justboratthings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 42 minutes ago, fearthefumanchu said: I know it isn't apples to apples, but Jesus guys it's just sports. I guess it is ultimately a good thing, just seems like it should be like number 9,000 on the list and we are still on number 1. Like, will anybody's life be improved by even 1% based on this change, or is it just a bunch of people who need to be called a hero, but dont want to go too far out of their way? Look at you, so full of contradiction. You instinctively realize it's probably the right thing to do, but if there isn't a measurable improvement in the quality of people's lives as a result than it won't be enough to do the right thing for you. This is what the 80's, Reagan, NeoCon liberals, and now hard libertarians have brought America. The end of the age of the golden rule and beginning of the age of what rules is gold. We've become less racist and more open in the process, but conversely we are as selfish as ever...let's face it, people get bothered by these changes, not because they need or want Cleveland's logo to look like that, but because it's what's familiar to them, what they know. Who cares if it's the symbol of latent racism and a caricature that's highly inaccurate to others! I don't like change because I'm older now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Joe from WY said: I agree. it should be realistic. They should have a punchy alcoholic with hepatitis and the onset of cirrohsis as the mascot instead. Is it your suggestion that somehow the fighting Irish mascot is the problem of native Americans who would rather the Indians change their logo? Where are you going with this? Two wrong make a right? Or that if Irish don't mind that mascot no one else is allowed to take issue with racial caricature mascots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, RogueStout said: That New York logo is ridiculous. The guy doesn't even have fangs! #justboratthings How do you hide your horns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Joe from WY said: I'm just agreeing that we shouldn't have a caricature, but something realistic. A punchy, argumentative, disease ridden drunk would be an accurate portrayal IMO. Sounds like a Cleveland problem. Perhaps this should be their mascot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, AztecSU said: Look at you, so full of contradiction. You instinctively realize it's probably the right thing to do, but if there isn't a measurable improvement in the quality of people's lives as a result than it won't be enough to do the right thing for you. This is what the 80's, Reagan, NeoCon liberals, and now hard libertarians have brought America. The end of the age of the golden rule and beginning of the age of what rules is gold. We've become less racist and more open in the process, but conversely we are as selfish as ever...let's face it, people get bothered by these changes, not because they need or want Cleveland's logo to look like that, but because it's what's familiar to them, what they know. Who cares if it's the symbol of latent racism and a caricature that's highly inaccurate to others! I don't like change because I'm older now! How is that contradictory? I am saying that it's fine, change it. All I am adding to that is that some people will spend energy on stupid symolism and think that they have done something instead of putting that energy into something that actually +++++ing matters. #prayforparis See... now i'm a hero without making a modicum of difference to anyone anywhere..also I didn't have to stand up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, fearthefumanchu said: If the Indians were owned by, staffed by, had many players who were, and a plurality of fans who were actually Indian it would be a different story 1 hour ago, fearthefumanchu said: I know it isn't apples to apples, but Jesus guys it's just sports. I guess it is ultimately a good thing, just seems like it should be like number 9,000 on the list and we are still on number 1. Like, will anybody's life be improved by even 1% based on this change, or is it just a bunch of people who need to be called a hero, but dont want to go too far out of their way? I mean, you can do more than one thing at a time 5 minutes ago, Joe from WY said: They're the Indians. Not the Mimis. What I described is an average denizen of the rez. And you wanted it to be realistic. So I'm just giving ideas. Average, or just more frequent than that same description outside the res? For that matter, you're not calling on the Trojans to be a bunch of corpses or the Spartans to be the most boring citizens of Greece or the Aztecs to be just some dude in a business suit. It's okay to have a historical mascot that also isn't a caricature. Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, AztecSU said: Is it your suggestion that somehow the fighting Irish mascot is the problem of native Americans who would rather the Indians change their logo? Where are you going with this? Two wrong make a right? Or that if Irish don't mind that mascot no one else is allowed to take issue with racial caricature mascots? No. I'm saying that no one talks about it because it doesn't +++++ing matter. You could get in a time machine, go back to when the Cleveland Indians or Washington redskins were founded, kill the owner and call the teams the Sharks and the peacocks, get back in your time machine and come back to 2018 and NOT ONE PERSON'S LIFE WOULD BE DIFFRENT IN ANY WAY. Native Americans have the lowest average life expectancy, highest teen pregnancy rate, highest suicide rate, terrible living conditions on many reservations, and on and on.... But you talk about getting a baseball mascot changed, pat yourself on the back and move on feeling like a million bucks. Easier than doing something that matters, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, happycamper said: If the Indians were owned by, staffed by, had many players who were, and a plurality of fans who were actually Indian it would be a different story I mean, you can do more than one thing at a time Average, or just more frequent than that same description outside the res? For that matter, you're not calling on the Trojans to be a bunch of corpses or the Spartans to be the most boring citizens of Greece or the Aztecs to be just some dude in a business suit. It's okay to have a historical mascot that also isn't a caricature. What does it matter than players/fans are irish. It's either offensive, or its not. You shouldn't have to read a team's Wikipedia entry to research whether or not you are offended, should you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, fearthefumanchu said: What does it matter than players/fans are irish. It's either offensive, or its not. No, that's idiotic and you know it. If you call yourself a fat drunk slob, you're being descriptive or at least joking. If someone else calls you that, they're liable to get punched. That shit is insulting. Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, happycamper said: No, that's idiotic and you know it. If you call yourself a fat drunk slob, you're being descriptive or at least joking. If someone else calls you that, they're liable to get punched. That shit is insulting. This isn't me calling me that, though. It's people who founded a university about 100 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, fearthefumanchu said: This isn't me calling me that, though. It's people who founded a university about 100 years ago. Right... who were mostly Irish, who had a university whose faculty were mostly Irish, founded by an institution that is the primary religious institution of Irish people, that had and has a plurality of Irish students. If the Indians had 1/10th the connection to Indian people that Notre Dame has with Irish Americans, nobody would care. Remember that every argument you have with someone on MWCboard is actually the continuation of a different argument they had with someone else also on MWCboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, fearthefumanchu said: No. I'm saying that no one talks about it because it doesn't +++++ing matter. You could get in a time machine, go back to when the Cleveland Indians or Washington redskins were founded, kill the owner and call the teams the Sharks and the peacocks, get back in your time machine and come back to 2018 and NOT ONE PERSON'S LIFE WOULD BE DIFFRENT IN ANY WAY. Native Americans have the lowest average life expectancy, highest teen pregnancy rate, highest suicide rate, terrible living conditions on many reservations, and on and on.... But you talk about getting a baseball mascot changed, pat yourself on the back and move on feeling like a million bucks. Easier than doing something that matters, right? Or perhaps to do something that matters you first simply have to take a step in the right direction? You're logic is basically if it doesn't cure all the problems facing natives than it's not worth it and yet when you talk to natives they disagree entirely...almost like they know, from direct experience, something you don't?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecSU Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, happycamper said: Right... who were mostly Irish, who had a university whose faculty were mostly Irish, founded by an institution that is the primary religious institution of Irish people, that had and has a plurality of Irish students. If the Indians had 1/10th the connection to Indian people that Notre Dame has with Irish Americans, nobody would care. It's funny, the black face analogy was used early in this convo but you can tell it went right over their heads. Notre Dame is the perfect foil to explain the difference. Bet some still don't get it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearthefumanchu Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, AztecSU said: Or perhaps to do something that matters you first simply have to take a step in the right direction? You're logic is basically if it doesn't cure all the problems facing natives than it's not worth it and yet when you talk to natives they disagree entirely...almost like they know, from direct experience, something you don't?... Start with the small and meaningless, thenjoy maybe get to shit that matters later.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
