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mugtang

New California?

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Just now, Mano said:

Because it doesn't effect you? 

 

No. If you haven't noticed, California has 40 million people in it, the VAST majority live on the coast and have a radically different view of the world than the less populated interior of the state. Structurally, there's no way to to achieve a meaningful level of representation for the minority.

 

If you can't tell the difference between California and Wyoming, I can't help you

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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25 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

No. If you haven't noticed, California has 40 million people in it, the VAST majority live on the coast and have a radically different view of the world than the less populated interior of the state. Structurally, there's no way to to achieve a meaningful level of representation for the minority.

 

If you can't tell the difference between California and Wyoming, I can't help you

I can tell the difference between the Salt Lake City metro area ( quite liberal ) and rural Utah.

Sorry you can't imagine that those on the other side could have similar issues with what you are facing.

I am sure your plan to split California into 2 or more states, with the one you inhabit being to your liking will be successful, what could go wrong?

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46 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

Again, not the same thing. The citizens of Los Angeles have more of a say on agricultural policy than the citizens of Bakersfield.  San Franciscans can literally shut off water to Central Valley farmers over concerns for a 1 " fish, and have.

Yeah, it's exactly the same thing, just in reverse.

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2 minutes ago, Mano said:

I can tell the difference between the Salt Lake City metro area ( quite liberal ) and rural Utah.

Sorry you can't imagine that those on the other side could have similar issues with what you are facing.

I am sure your plan to split California into 2 or more states, with the one you inhabit being to your liking will be successful, what could go wrong?

I don't have a plan. I'm simply telling you what's driving the discussion.  Besides, what difference should it make to you?  You don't live here. You have zero grasp of the politics.  

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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Just now, SDSUfan said:

I don't have a plan. I'm simply telling you what's driving the discussion.  Besides, what difference should it make to you?  You don't live here. You have zero grasp of the politics.  

But you have a grasp of the politics where I live? Must be tough being this tone deaf.

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Send lawyers, guns, and money
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1 hour ago, retrofade said:

So where do you put the capital? San Diego, Fresno, Anaheim.....

Oh, and then can we split SDSU and Fresno off from the CSU system and make us UNC San Diego and UNC Fresno? Pac-12 invitation coming for the two new flagship schools! 

:lol: 

Stockton should be the capital.  It's the biggest shithole in the Central Valley. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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1 minute ago, NVGiant said:

Yeah, it's exactly the same thing, just in reverse.

No, it isn't. The shear size of California, population and land mass, and the stark differences between the two distinct cultures make it different in scale alone. 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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1 hour ago, SDSUfan said:

THere's not a single solitary Republican that holds a state elected office.  Both houses have a 2/3rd majority of Democrats. The more rural counties, which are much more conservative stand no chance of having meaningful representation in Sacramento.  If you don't have a say, there's no such thing as disagreement, there's only the dictatorship of a one party state.

Yeah? So how do you think a Dem  feels in those very red states?

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2 minutes ago, Mano said:

But you have a grasp of the politics where I live? Must be tough being this tone deaf.

San Diego County has more people in it that your entire state. If you can't recognize that the differences in scale, I can't help you.

Utah is like 90% white and 90 % Mormon.  You are as homogeneous as it comes. That you have a relative few outliers is one thing, California as constituted disenfranchises roughly 5X more people than live in your entire state. That's 10 million folks.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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45 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

No. If you haven't noticed, California has 40 million people in it, the VAST majority live on the coast and have a radically different view of the world than the less populated interior of the state. Structurally, there's no way to to achieve a meaningful level of representation for the minority.

 

If you can't tell the difference between California and Wyoming, I can't help you

"Have a radically different view"? How so? We're still all American's, we all want pretty much the same thing, our differences aren't really that great, even today.

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7 minutes ago, renoskier said:

Yeah? So how do you think a Dem  feels in those very red states?

Three of Wyoming's last five governors were Dems.  The last 10 have been 50/50.

I suspect that surprises many of you.

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5 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

San Diego County has more people in it that your entire state. If you can't recognize that the differences in scale, I can't help you.

Utah is like 90% white and 90 % Mormon.  You are as homogeneous as it comes. That you have a relative few outliers is one thing, California as constituted disenfranchises roughly 5X more people than live in your entire state. That's 10 million folks.

California is much more populous than Utah, no shit.

It doesn't change the fact that people who are radically different culturally live here, and it is generally split between the Urban areas and rural/small town areas.

Your 90% white/mormon stat pretty much proves my point, as that is not SLC. For the most part the rest of the state (outside a couple of other Urban centers) is Ultra conservative, white, Mormon and the State Legislature is dominated by the GOP. Yet, in SLC, they have had all Democrat mayors since 1976, it is much more diverse, much lower % LDS, the current mayor is a woman (who happens to be a lesbian), etc. Salt Lake is by far the densest population block in the state, and gets sliced up into different voting districts to maintain the GOP control over all the congressional districts. Overall in the US, the GOP representation greatly outweighs their vote % ( California is overrepresented by the Dems ).

I am not discounting that there major cultural differences in California, and your viewpoint is likely under represented, but you seem to think it only effects or matters to those in your situation or locale. Try taking a step back, and realize that this shit happens on both sides.

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Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

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16 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Three of Wyoming's last five governors were Dems.  The last 10 have been 50/50.

I suspect that surprises many of you.

Yes but a Wyoming Democrat isn’t a Coastal California Democrat. 

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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9 minutes ago, Mano said:

California is much more populous than Utah, no shit.

It doesn't change the fact that people who are radically different culturally live here, and it is generally split between the Urban areas and rural/small town areas.

Your 90% white/mormon stat pretty much proves my point, as that is not SLC. For the most part the rest of the state (outside a couple of other Urban centers) is Ultra conservative, white, Mormon and the State Legislature is dominated by the GOP. Yet, in SLC, they have had all Democrat mayors since 1976, it is much more diverse, much lower % LDS, the current mayor is a woman (who happens to be a lesbian), etc. Salt Lake is by far the densest population block in the state, and gets sliced up into different voting districts to maintain the GOP control over all the congressional districts. Overall in the US, the GOP representation greatly outweighs their vote % ( California is overrepresented by the Dems ).

I am not discounting that there major cultural differences in California, and your viewpoint is likely under represented, but you seem to think it only effects or matters to those in your situation or locale. Try taking a step back, and realize that this shit happens on both sides.

I think he's arguing that shear numbers make the mechanics or principle of the situation different for some reason between Utah and California. 

I don't get it either.

In both cases the minority has limited effective power over their own jurisdictions.

 

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36 minutes ago, SDSUfan said:

San Diego County has more people in it that your entire state. If you can't recognize that the differences in scale, I can't help you.

Utah is like 90% white and 90 % Mormon.  You are as homogeneous as it comes. That you have a relative few outliers is one thing, California as constituted disenfranchises roughly 5X more people than live in your entire state. That's 10 million folks.

Would it make you feel better if we were saying that people in Austin and San Antonio feel just as disenfranchised in Texas? Is that a big enough state for you?

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31 minutes ago, pokebball said:

Three of Wyoming's California's last five governors were Dems Republicans.  The last 10 have been 50/50 60/40 in favor of Republicans.

I suspect that surprises many of you.

I bet a lot don't know this either.

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It's just whining.  Splitting California because of some who feel disenfranchised is as dumb as Idaho seceding because they don't have a strong enough say in Federal dealings. 

Every election in Idaho I knew my vote would be meaningless because of the sheep that overpopulates the state.  But I never thought, shit a bunch of people should band together in Boise or wherever and split the state up.

Bunch of phucking crybabies.  Treasonous imo, to try and screw up the economics of the USA.  Breadbasket & the largest economy of the USA.  What a phuck up that would be thanks to petulant cons.

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