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retrofade

On MLK Day, the Trump Administration deports a non-criminal back to Mexico, where he has never lived as an adult

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33 minutes ago, retrofade said:

You hit the nail on the head with the statement that I bolded. 

Your final statement also rings true, but it's also for the real people that are already here who are being deported due to decisions made by their relatives when they were just children. 

It's just like the CHIP deal from the end of last year... playing political chicken with people's lives and livelihoods at stake. 

"A policy that makes it easy, affordable, and non discriminatory to move to and work within the United States" as @BSUTOP25 describes is the exact opposite of what the hardliners want.  They don't want non-white people to come here.  They feel immigrants are a drain on society.  They feel that this is tantamount to "open borders" and it will degrade our "culture."  They believe that the core of immigration is preserving whiteness.  

Nobody is against a system that protects the USA from criminals and helps to protect wages and the social safety net from abuse.....but that is not what Trump wants.

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trump 2-ish years ago:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/16/trump_mexico_not_sending_us_their_best_criminals_drug_dealers_and_rapists_are_crossing_border.html

they're rapists, they're gangbangers, they're all evil!

yeah!  deport them!  starting with that married father of 2 who is more than likely not stealing an identity per se but made up numbers and has fallen through the cracks of a crappy system.  (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/17/15290950/undocumented-immigrants-file-tax-returns)

this is hardly a meaningful pushback against the "horrors" of the on-paper crime that is living here illegally.  i'll be proud of ICE when i see ms-13 hotbeds rounded up and sitting in handcuffs.  not some random joe who's just trying to make it work for himself and his family.

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another thing -- ignorance of the law is no excuse when you're trying to prevent someone from copping out of being guilty of something he/she obviously should have known.

i think children being brought here illegally is a reasonable exception to that rule.

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12 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

another thing -- ignorance of the law is no excuse when you're trying to prevent someone from copping out of being guilty of something he/she obviously should have known.

i think children being brought here illegally is a reasonable exception to that rule.

I 100% agree with you on this... it's just common freaking sense.

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1 hour ago, Akkula said:

We don't negotiate with Terrorists.  Trump could have allowed DACA to continue but he took hostages to try to ram through his racist agenda.  Now he is acting like it is going to end as if he wasn't complicit in the sabotage and telling Dems if they don't succumb to his racist laws he will shoot the hostage.  "Don't make me do it!  Don't make me do it!":idiot:

Oh so now the GOP are terrorists?  Got it.  

 

DACA was going to be challenged by several states anyway and was likely going to be found to be unconstitutional (except in the 9th circuit court cause they don’t follow the Constitution anyway).  

thelawlorfaithful, on 31 Dec 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:One of the rules I live by: never underestimate a man in a dandy looking sweater

 

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40 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

another thing -- ignorance of the law is no excuse when you're trying to prevent someone from copping out of being guilty of something he/she obviously should have known.

i think children being brought here illegally is a reasonable exception to that rule.

To play devils advocate though in this specific case...  yes, he was brought here as a child but he spent 21 years living here as an adult knowing he wasn’t here legally.  He’s married to a US citizen.  What has he been doing to obtain legal status?  I have a sister-in-law from the Dominican Republic that that had to go through the steps to obtain legal status after marrying my brother.  It was an onerous process that took 1-2 years IIRC but she got her status.  This guy has known his illegal status for a long time - ignorance to laws is legit as a 9 year old, not as a person who’s spent 20+ years here as an adult.  I’d be interested in hearing the other side before I flip a lid over this like some are doing.

Like I said earlier, the system and laws should be such that he could obtain legal status but I won’t pretend to know the details of how much he tried to do so or what type of reponse he got if he did.  This definitely feels to me like only one side of the story is being shared having had family that went through this.  At the same time though, this is the type of situation the law should care for.  It worked for my brother and his wife, not sure why it didn’t here.  If there is a gap, it should be fixed.

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4 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

As if I'm unaware of the history of the failure of both parties to address illegal immigration, LOL. 

This particular situation is the creation of Trump as a direct result of his removal of DACA protections, period. Yes, there is a longer history of failure preceding it, but when it comes to the deportation of the person in the OP and others like him, there is little logical utility in its examination. The claim that the Democrats are somehow equally responsible for DACA recipients getting deported when Trump removed their protections and then his ICE literally deported them is what is asinine. 

 

This isn’t a direct result of anything DACA related.  This guy was not eligible for DACA due to his age.  Read the link.

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1 hour ago, retrofade said:

Or he could have gotten an ITIN from the IRS and filed his taxes just like a number of illegal immigrants do. 

Self-employment or starting his own business, yes. W-2 wages, definitely not. It states on the ITIN application that is it is not for employment authorization. It makes no judgment about legal immigration status, merely provides a mechanism to avoid tax evasion charges.

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35 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

To play devils advocate though in this specific case...  yes, he was brought here as a child but he spent 21 years living here as an adult knowing he wasn’t here legally.  He’s married to a US citizen.  What has he been doing to obtain legal status?  I have a sister-in-law from the Dominican Republic that that had to go through the steps to obtain legal status after marrying my brother.  It was an onerous process that took 1-2 years IIRC but she got her status.  This guy has known his illegal status for a long time - ignorance to laws is legit as a 9 year old, not as a person who’s spent 20+ years here as an adult.  I’d be interested in hearing the other side before I flip a lid over this like some are doing.

Like I said earlier, the system and laws should be such that he could obtain legal status but I won’t pretend to know the details of how much he tried to do so or what type of reponse he got if he did.  This definitely feels to me like only one side of the story is being shared having had family that went through this.  At the same time though, this is the type of situation the law should care for.  It worked for my brother and his wife, not sure why it didn’t here.  If there is a gap, it should be fixed.

the path to citizenship when you've been brought here illegally is fraught with problems.  i appreciate the path your sister in law from the dominican republic took, but she was an adult and came here under the auspices of becoming a citizen and getting married.  that's a far cry being stuck in limbo because you turn 18 and begin to realize the implications of having been brought here when you were 10.

i don't think deportation of guys like him is the solution, here.  i'm not looking to string him up or exonerate him.  i know enough of the details to say that this is not a fruitful course of action to fix illegal immigration.

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44 minutes ago, mugtang said:

Oh so now the GOP are terrorists?  Got it.  

 

DACA was going to be challenged by several states anyway and was likely going to be found to be unconstitutional (except in the 9th circuit court cause they don’t follow the Constitution anyway).  

Trump and the alt-right are white supremacists.  The GOP establishment folks who refuse to stand up to him are his enablers.  There are a lot of GOPers who talk a big game against white supremacy and racism but never show up with their votes.  

The last time I check appeasement didn't work on authoritarian racists...it only emboldens them. It is unfortunate that the dreamers may have to get deported in all this mess but we cannot surrender the whole country just to get dreamers legal.  I wouldn't be surprised if other countries would step up to allow them to come in.  Leaving the USA isn't the end of the world and they will likely have good opportunities with the skills they learned in the USA in other countries too.

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6 minutes ago, AndroidAggie said:

the path to citizenship when you've been brought here illegally is fraught with problems.

i don't think deportation of guys like him is the solution, here.

Understood, but I’m still curious to hear the other side of the story.  He’s been here 20+ years as an adult and is married to a US citizen.  If he truly tried everything he could to obtain legal status and the current system and laws simply didn’t allow it then that is a HUGE issue.  We just don’t know from what was reported as it was very one-sided.

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19 minutes ago, NorCalCoug said:

Understood, but I’m still curious to hear the other side of the story.  He’s been here 20+ years as an adult and is married to a US citizen.  If he truly tried everything he could to obtain legal status and the current system and laws simply didn’t allow it then that is a HUGE issue.  We just don’t know from what was reported as it was very one-sided.

fair enough.  

here's my bias: i am predisposed to believe that he has done quite a bit to legalize himself.  the fact that he's a known quantity and has, in the past, successfully applied for delays in his deportation indicates such.  everything i've read on the issue points to byzantine laws and exorbitant legal fees to get to legal status such that unless you have the time and means, it's extremely difficult to do it the right way when you came here illegally.  i can hardly blame a guy who's busy with life and work and up against an almost insurmountable legal hurdle.  a family is broken up, now, and any politician who thinks this is a win for their camp is delusional.

which means voters need to demand real solutions from politicians.

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6 hours ago, youngrebelfan40 said:

As if I'm unaware of the history of the failure of both parties to address illegal immigration, LOL. 

This particular situation is the creation of Trump as a direct result of his removal of DACA protections, period. Yes, there is a longer history of failure preceding it, but when it comes to the deportation of the person in the OP and others like him, there is little logical utility in its examination. The claim that the Democrats are somehow equally responsible for DACA recipients getting deported when Trump removed their protections and then his ICE literally deported them is what is asinine. 

 

 

1 hour ago, NorCalCoug said:

This isn’t a direct result of anything DACA related.  This guy was not eligible for DACA due to his age.  Read the link.

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We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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13 hours ago, retrofade said:

Okay, Authoritarian. 

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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3 hours ago, retrofade said:

Or he could have gotten an ITIN from the IRS and filed his taxes just like a number of illegal immigrants do. 

Possible, but very unlikely. He’d need some form of documentation to apply. Michigan isn’t a state that issues id’s to illegal immigrants, so he would have had to get it from one of the few states that do so. 

We’re all sitting in the dugout. Thinking we should pitch. How you gonna throw a shutout when all you do is bitch.

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10 hours ago, Slapdad said:

This thread is ridiculous for a lot of reasons, one of which is your name calling. What a tantrum. 

Why the left is bringing up the fact that this happened on MLK day is beyond me. MLK was not an advocate of illegal immigration and, in fact, is noted for being opposed to the "wink-wink nudge-nudge open borders" which allowed illegal immigrants to take or undermine the position and opportunities of African Americans. So let's start by leaving MLK out of this equation in an attempt to tug at the heart strings of those who admire MLK. Even Hugo Cesar Chavez was anti-illegal immigration and supported immigration restrictions. Being disgusted about our political system for enforcing laws that are in place and have been for decades is almost as silly as blaming Trump ICE for enforcing them. If anything is disgusting, it's that Obama allowed people to sidestep these laws to begin with. If a new immigration law is passed that allows people to stay after following the laws of this nation, then so be it. 

And just additional food for thought. The articles I've seen don't detail whether his parents (and by extension, Jorge) crossed the border illegally or if they entered on a work visa that subsequently expired and they never returned. If that was the case, it's worth noting that they (and he) would be undocumented and not necessarily illegal. 

FIFY.

BTW: he was militant anti-immigration, referring to them as "Wet's" and going so far as to send his brother down to the border with a gang of thugs to crack heads.

 

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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12 hours ago, Rebelbacker said:

Wow. You really have no idea about how this issue has been kicked around for democratic political gain for over 3 decades do you? 

 

Or how much their stance has changed based on the political winds. Bill Clinton passed some of the harshest immigration policies of the last 50 years.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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3 hours ago, AndroidAggie said:

trump 2-ish years ago:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/16/trump_mexico_not_sending_us_their_best_criminals_drug_dealers_and_rapists_are_crossing_border.html

they're rapists, they're gangbangers, they're all evil!

yeah!  deport them!  starting with that married father of 2 who is more than likely not stealing an identity per se but made up numbers and has fallen through the cracks of a crappy system.  (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/17/15290950/undocumented-immigrants-file-tax-returns)

this is hardly a meaningful pushback against the "horrors" of the on-paper crime that is living here illegally.  i'll be proud of ICE when i see ms-13 hotbeds rounded up and sitting in handcuffs.  not some random joe who's just trying to make it work for himself and his family.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/17/us/ms-13-raids-los-angeles/index.html

 

this isn't where Trump "started".  In FACT, they started and continue to round up criminal aliens first and foremost.  HOWEVER the preening Democrats that mismanage a number of states and ,municipalities have decided  to declare themselves "sanctuary" , refusing to cooperate with ICE by notifying them when a criminal alien is in custody.  This now means that ICE has to go into communities to hunt down these criminals. If they come across other illegals in the process, they by law must detain them.

No big deal as long as a bunch of Leftist politicians get to score some points.

“Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.”

-Richard Feynman

"When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators."

-P.J. O’Rourke

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14 hours ago, mugtang said:

Again, the Dems are making this political as well and are also playing political chicken with people’s lives.  They’re all guilty of it.  They had no intention of making a deal as it gives the president a win and they can’t have that heading into the midterms.  It’s all about politics and winning the next election. 

Trump and the Repubs claim to want to protect dreamers and have a fix for this. They can't then hold it hostage to get something they want(the wall) without giving something else up if they truly want to protect DACA. That's not how you negotiate. "Give me something I want and I will give you something we both want".

 

And it sounds like they had a pretty good bipartisan deal worked out and called Trump up and he was excited and invited them to the WH. Then when they showed up Miller and Kelly had convinced him to torpedo the deal and invited the Immigration Hardliners to destroy the deal. So it isn't like nobody is trying to work on it, they are just being sabotaged from within.

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